Singapore vs Right Start can someone compare

[campmom]

Can someone compare these two programs for me? I am presently using RS A, I like it a lot although sometimes I'm not sure I understand the method. It is very teacher intensive at least for me and I think I would like something with a workbook. Are the methods the same? Does singapore use the abacus? I have been thinking about trying singapore instead of RS B and lately I've been reading alot about singapore here. It seems that no one ever talks about RS around here anymore. Can someone give me an idea about how they compare and which might work better for a teacher who learned the old, old methods and is not a stong math person, but desires to give her children something better.

thanks

Missy

[Susie in CA]

I use RightStart and Singapore with my ds9. He is in RightStart E now. We have never used A. We love RightStart. Both my dss have an excellent understanding of math concepts, and we'd definitively use RightStart again. We use Singapore as break. When we get to a diffcult stage in RightStart we use Singapore between. We do use Singapore at a level lower than RightStart. It is working well for us.

 

Susie

[msjones]

Can someone compare these two programs for me? I am presently using RS A, I like it a lot although sometimes I'm not sure I understand the method. It is very teacher intensive at least for me and I think I would like something with a workbook. Are the methods the same? Does singapore use the abacus? I have been thinking about trying singapore instead of RS B and lately I've been reading alot about singapore here. It seems that no one ever talks about RS around here anymore. Can someone give me an idea about how they compare and which might work better for a teacher who learned the old, old methods and is not a stong math person, but desires to give her children something better.

thanks

Missy

 

:bigear:

I have the same questions...

I've used RightStart for K-4, loved it, but now want something a bit more independent for my oldest.

[sarahv]

:bigear:

 

EXACTLY what I've been wondering...

[pageta]

We have Singapore 1A and Right Start B. I started with the Singapore textbook and workbook, but it moved so quickly I didn't think ds could possibly catch the concepts. So I bought RS B at a curriculum fair. We got to about lesson 15 in it, and I just felt lost, like I was being led around blindfolded. It tells you do to x, y and z, but doesn't explain why or even tell you what the point of the exercise is. Then I heard about the Home Instructors Guide for Singapore. Now I love Singapore. The HIG tells you the point of each section, what is trying to be accomplished, and why. It's also very logical in the progression rather than jumping around. I've heard Right Start and Singapore teach the same way of thinking, and I am very happy with the "thinking" that Singapore teaches - more than one approach for each skill. With the HIG, I feel like I know what I'm doing - as in, I can see the big picture.

 

Singapore doesn't use the abacus or other manipulatives, to my knowledge, but I have incorporated the abacus into what we're doing. My son likes it so I use it to show him the concepts there as well.

 

People rave about how wonderful Right Start is, but I guess I'm a Right Start failure. I just got tired of trying to figure out what was going on. It's like RS needs a HIG or something. Oh well.

[PeterPan]

If you like RS A, then keep going into RS B, which continues the approach. I also really like the way they teach 4 digit subtraction in RS C. That's done by about the middle of the book. If you're going to jump, I would jump then. We did through RS D, and I own E and the Geo. I'm sort of hohum about the rest, but I LOVE the foundation you get in A and B and the way they teach 4 digit subtraction in C. As long as you're happy, I'd at least stick that far.

[siloam]

Can someone compare these two programs for me? I am presently using RS A, I like it a lot although sometimes I'm not sure I understand the method. It is very teacher intensive at least for me and I think I would like something with a workbook. Are the methods the same? Does singapore use the abacus? I have been thinking about trying singapore instead of RS B and lately I've been reading alot about singapore here. It seems that no one ever talks about RS around here anymore. Can someone give me an idea about how they compare and which might work better for a teacher who learned the old, old methods and is not a stong math person, but desires to give her children something better.

thanks

Missy

 

Missy,

 

They are very similar in how they approach math, though Singapore will make logical leaps that Right Start will teach step by step.

 

Day to day use wise, the RS manual is scripted and the manipulatives used almost daily. Singapore has the HIG where the manipulatives will be brought in, the text which is highly visual (color), but not interactive. The workbooks are pretty much black and white and overall the Singapore texts will have more written work. Singapore doesn't have the warm up, and while I wouldn't be surprised if Jenny included some games in the HIG they wouldn't be scheduled like they are in RS. Math facts are learned more through traditional means.

 

I find both take about the same amount of time to teach. With Singapore we do the warm ups, go through the lesson and teach them games. Having 4 kids can be an advantage because after I teach them a game they play them together from then on, and my time is freed up. I do find that with my younger kids I go at a much slower pace than they schedule. With my ds in level A I would literally do a warm up day 1, do the lesson day 2, do any worksheets day 3 and then play any games day 4. If a lesson had all those components then we only did one lesson a week. Many lessons don't have either worksheets or games scheduled so could then do two lessons a week. There are also times when they are learning a new concept that I would set the TM aside entirely and just play games, like at the beginning when they are learning to see quantities.

 

With Singapore I go through the text book as needed. If I didn't do RS I would also do the hands on work in the HIG, but because I use RS I don't have to. Then I go over the worksheets with the kiddos to make sure they see how what we just did in the text transfers over. Now and then they will do something just different enough my kids don't follow, so I like to make sure. Though I don't need to do that as much as they get older. Using both side by side RS does take up more time, but when I just used Singapore it took up just as much time. Why? Because when a new concept was introduced I often had to spend a couple of weeks working with my kids, walking them through problems and such. Now I didn't have the HIG's at that time, so the manipulative work there might have really helped, but this was before 1A and 1B were published. The result was intensive periods of one on one work when new concepts were introduces then more free time in between. I think it probably averages out to about the same amount of time invested.

 

The most striking thing for me though is that my oldest did fine with Singapore, but she would tell you that math was her worst subject. When I introduced Right Start things changed. No she didn't love math suddenly, but she did realize that she was now understanding concepts better. She would tell you that while she doesn't love math, she is now good at math. That difference in confidence, in understanding is priceless. She adores RS.

 

Heather

 

 

 

[Haiku]

I used Singapore with my oldest child, who is now 15, and I use RS with my younger two kids.

 

I feel that Singapore is RS "lite" without enough practice and at too accelerated a speed. What I like about RS is the very clear progression from concrete-with-manipulatives to abstract mental math. For my dd who is very mathy, I can skip some of the lessons that seem repetitive. For my ds who struggles with math, the math games and manipulatives provide as much practice as we need, and I can slow down the pace of the lessons if need be.

 

When I used Singapore with my non-mathy oldest child, it was only a bit short of a disaster. Although Singapore is billed as going from concrete to abstract, the "concrete" examples were all pictures. My dd had no idea what was going on, and there was not enough practice. The pace of the curriculum was very swift, and after 2 1/2 levels, she still wasn't solid on the basics. I strongly disliked Singapore.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

I just felt lost, like I was being led around blindfolded. It tells you do to x, y and z, but doesn't explain why or even tell you what the point of the exercise is.

 

I agree that RS could benefit from more explanation of where individual exercises are taking you, but I also think that, had you gone through A, you wouldn't have had this problem with B.

 

Imo, B assumes that you understand the methodology from A and does only a brief review, which doesn't really do the method justice.

 

Tara

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Singapore doesn't have the warm up, and while I wouldn't be surprised if Jenny included some games in the HIG they wouldn't be scheduled like they are in RS. Math facts are learned more through traditional means.

 

Now I didn't have the HIG's at that time, so the manipulative work there might have really helped, but this was before 1A and 1B were published. The result was intensive periods of one on one work when new concepts were introduces then more free time in between.

 

I'm thinking that this huge improvement in the Standards HIGs is a seriously huge improvement because the games are scheduled. Concrete manipulative work, drill, mental math, reinforcement exercises, tests, and challenges (DS's favorite) are also all scheduled. The schedule is laid out in the front of the HIG and gives you textbook, workbook, and HIG pages for each lesson. I go to the HIG first, do the activities (slowing down if necessary) and then move on to the TB/WB/CWP from there.

 

I feel that Singapore is RS "lite" without enough practice and at too accelerated a speed. What I like about RS is the very clear progression from concrete-with-manipulatives to abstract mental math. For my dd who is very mathy, I can skip some of the lessons that seem repetitive.

 

I do the same with Singapore. I do the same with any materials, actually, according to each kiddo's needs. Of course, there are the Extra Practice, Intensive Practice and CWP so I personally can't get on board with the lack of practice criticism of Singapore. However, for those using the old HIGs (which apparently pale in comparison to the new ones), I could see people feeling this way.

 

Although Singapore is billed as going from concrete to abstract, the "concrete" examples were all pictures. My dd had no idea what was going on, and there was not enough practice. The pace of the curriculum was very swift, and after 2 1/2 levels, she still wasn't solid on the basics. I strongly disliked Singapore.

 

I'm guessing that was old HIG stuff then or working without one at all. In the new Standards version, as I said above, everything is laid out and there are many activities and extras to help you work through the concrete before moving on to the TB/WBs with their pictures.

 

I feel strongly about pointing all this out because I feel that part of the bad reviews for Singapore are based on the old materials and I was right where the OP was six months or so ago. Ask DH how I lamented about math! :lol: I was up until all hours trying to figure it all out. I wanted Singapore but I was distressed by some of the criticisms about lack of drill, moving to fast, too conceptual, etc. When I hated Saxon, I bought Singapore and man, oh, man, how I love it. And, with the new HIG with Standards, I'm not seeing any of the problems that have been named above with the program.

 

I do help this helps the OP! I have so been where you are.

 

Oh, and RSA hung out in a box in my closet for more than a year. Not my cup of tea. Love Singapore though, and so do DS6 and DD5!

Edited October 2, 2009 by Alte Veste Academy

[Haiku]

I feel strongly about pointing all this out because I feel that part of the bad reviews for Singapore are based on the old materials

 

 

Yeah, it was a while ago that I used Singapore. I guess things have changed.

 

Tara

[siloam]

I still use Singapore: Text, workbook, IP's and CWP for each level. I don't use the HIG's (though I do own them-must have those worked answers) or the drill worksheets because the concepts are so well covered in RS that I don't need them. I also work through all the books before my kids go into them to make sure I get the concepts, so if I think they need something more concrete on a problem that was hard for me I will just add it on the fly-though most likely using a RS manipulative because I am used to working with those. I also know what which are the more difficult problems and allow extra helps on those.

 

The Standards edition sounds wonderful, but given I already own all the other levels and most the workbooks I need for those levels I am just not sure I can justify the expense. I want to, there are just other things that are important given math is working with the RS and Singapore combo. I do still have my doubts that even with the Standards edition that it would make too many logical leaps for my kids. Not a one of my kids are mathy (only I am).

 

I am glad to hear of the improvements, though.

 

I will also admit that for the first 6 months I had a love hate relationship with RS. I didn't like having to manage all those manipulatives. I only stuck with it because my kids responded so well to it. RS has convinced me over the long haul what a good program it is. Singapore I loved from day 1 and it will always be my first love. As it used to be it was just too much for my kiddos.

 

Heather

 

 

 

 

 

[campmom]

Thank you to everyone. Let me see if I understand. RS and Singapore do teach the same method? Do they sort of line up teaching the same things in the same order? Is this how you manage to use the 2 together? IF not could those of you who combine RS and Singapore give me a little better understanding of how to combine them?

 

Also how do I bump this post up to the front of the line?

Thanks so much, My math and computer skills are about the same!

Missy

[Amie]

:lurk5:

[grace'smom]

:lurk5:

 

bump...

[sarahv]

:bigear:

[ondreeuh]

Although Singapore is billed as going from concrete to abstract, the "concrete" examples were all pictures. My dd had no idea what was going on, and there was not enough practice. The pace of the curriculum was very swift, and after 2 1/2 levels, she still wasn't solid on the basics. I strongly disliked Singapore.

 

The HIG clearly explains how to use manipulatives to demonstrate concepts. This is the concrete part. It is primary reason I believe that using the HIG is what makes Singapore a complete math program - it covers the teaching side of it, including example problems that you do before you open up the books. The books cover the practicing side.

 

Now that said, I don't think Singapore is a good fit for us, at least not right now. I did want to correct your statement though that Singapore does not cover the concrete step.

[siloam]

Thank you to everyone. Let me see if I understand. RS and Singapore do teach the same method? Do they sort of line up teaching the same things in the same order? Is this how you manage to use the 2 together? IF not could those of you who combine RS and Singapore give me a little better understanding of how to combine them?

 

Also how do I bump this post up to the front of the line?

Thanks so much, My math and computer skills are about the same!

Missy

 

Missy,

 

They follow the same base 10, place value emphasis. RS will teach some unusual approaches, that might helps some kids understand better where Singapore only teaches the traditional strategies.

 

They don't follow the same sequence. RS more or less teaches addition to 9 digits in B then introduces subtraction, then covers subtraction and multiplication in C, in D, if I remember right, you cover division and start fractions. E so far is reviewing, but I believe it also covers decimals..give me 6 months and I will be able to tell you more. :D Then you go into a 2 year program called Geometry, which really isn't the equivalent of High School Geometry, but appears to do more application of ideas that will lead into algebra and use the math operations learned so far in new ways-applied to geometrical shapes.

 

Singapore is a little more spiral. This might not be exactly correct, but if I remember right level 1 covers single digit addition and subtraction and then introduces multiplication as a function of addition and division as grouping exercises (if you have 10 cookies and 5 kids how many cookies does each child get type stuff). Then in level 2 they work with double digit addition and subtraction and teach standard equations for multiplication and division. I can't remember if two digit multiplication is taught here or on level 3. In level 3 you work on 3 and 4 digit addition and subtraction with an emphasis on place value, borrowing and carrying. They continue to move ahead with multiplication and division as well and bar diagramming work is introduced. Bar diagrams is where the child learns to solve algebra type problems by drawing it out and then using simple math to solve the problem. Level 4A is mostly fractions and level 4B is decimals. I can't remember right now what level 5 is...it has been too long since I have done it. Then level 6, I am told, is review. From there you move into one of the upper level Singapore math programs, of which I think there are 3 choices.

 

I combine because I love the thinking skills used in Singapore, Singapore was my first love and because I want to use the upper level Singapore math. Each program works fine as a stand alone. My kids are highly kinesthetic though, and RS will lead them step by step through concepts that Singapore will occasionally make logical leaps with, so if you have a child who isn't mathy, then RS is probably the better fit. Mathy kids probably do better with Singapore. Combining the two means we will not be starting upper level maths "on schedule".

 

It does depend on what you consider being on scheduled. Most hs math programs run ahead of public school. As I understand it and average student in ps would do Algebra 1 in 9th, Geometry in 10th, Algebra 2 in 11th and Trig/Precal in 12th. RS if you follow their "grade levels" you will finish their program up in grade 6 and start Videotext (again assuming you follow their guidance). Videotext has an unusually sequence so maybe it would be easier to talk about someone who is going to move to traditional programs. You can either have a child go to pre-algebra for 7th or I have seen people go straight to algebra. Either leave a child starting Algebra I in 7th or 8th, ahead of the game. Singapore also has an unusually sequence. There are 4 texts to most their upper level programs, so if a child does those in 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th then they come out of Singapore in 11th doing Precal. Again a year ahead. I have also head of people going straight into Algebra I in a traditional program in 7th and doing fine. So if you define being on schedule as follow the grade level recommendations on the front of the program, then we are behind. If you define it as following ps recommendations for an average student, we are on schedule. :D

 

Right now my oldest is 6th doing level E. I am not 100% sure she will do RS Geometry (she hates the drawing work and it looks heavy on that type of work), if she doesn't she will go straight into VideoText Algebra in 7th. If she does do it she will start VideoText in late 8th or 9th. I am leaning to having her skip Geometry to give her the chance to finish all the VT levels before graduation. In Singapore she will finish the level 4 books this year and start the level 5. In 7th she will finish 5 and start 6 and she will finish the level 6 book in 8th. Assuming because Singapore is hard it continues to take her longer to get through the program she will probably only finish the 4 levels of Singapore and not complete pre-cal, so in this program she will end up a year behind in math, but given I am mostly interested in her learning how to think mathematically with Singapore that doesn't bother me.

 

Sorry it ended up so long, I had to think as I go. :)

 

Heather

 

 

 

[sarahv]

Thanks Heather! That was extremely helpful! :D