Grammar Stage Parent Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 This article lists seven topics currently on the educator chopping block, a list that includes long division and radial clocks. Newsweek also just published an article about cursive writing being abandoned. I poked around online a bit and found what appeared to be people with advanced math degrees admitting that they found long division of little use, so I am wondering if there are indeed some features of traditional curricula that are of little value. http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?i... Daughter: 8; Singapore Primary Mathematics 2B; Story of the World Level 2; Writing Strands 2; Spelling Workout Level C; Science experiment books recommended in WTM Son: 5: First Language Lessons Level 1; Singapore Primary Mathematics 1A; general handwriting practice and reading practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Ds wanted to learn cursive in 2nd grade, so dh taught him. I see it's importance if ds is not to be a slave to manuscript or a computer. I think about taking notes in college and, for me, cursive was faster. I have a nephew who does it in manuscript. I know a lady (in dh's class) who used her laptop. The (almost lost) art of writing a thank you note is another use. Cursive is not an option that can be used if not learned. Ds learned long division in 3rd or 4th grade. It was one of the most difficult things he learned. Again, I see it's importance if ds is not to be a slave to a calculator. I have a degree in math. I use long division when I'm too lazy to find my calculator or it's not available. Doing long division manually is not an option that can be used if not learned. I can't imagine not teaching prime numbers. They are foundational for manipulating fractions. We are working on factoring binomials in Algebra right now. It would be difficult to do without knowing prime numbers. Makes me glad I get to choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanaTron Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 A few years ago, I was talking with a long-time friend about home schooling. I threw out the statement, "Why study trig? I don't know anyone who ever uses trig after the class!" She looked at me like I was crazy, and said, "I use trig every day!" She is a geophysicist. :D We had a good laugh, and I am going to have my dc take trig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsiew Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Like a pp I'm thankful that I have a choice. Personally, I believe the basics can never be done away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez J Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2009/02/long-division-why-teach-it.html The first link - Why Teach Long Division, really got me thinking recently. I went back to the very basics with dd on that and spent extra time getting her to understand what each part of the equation represents and to understand the place value. I also am going to do some of the samples the blogger gives about <. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth Angel_79 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Interesting article and concepts that I've thought about quite frequently...however, dismissing cursive and long division just because they aren't frequently used is like saying that someone who never intends to go into a field that requires research papers be written (or an equivalent) has no need to learn much more than how to write in shortened computer jargon (ie...LOL, HTH, etc). Maybe I'm taking that too far, but I believe most of what you learn in elementary (by traditional school scope and sequence) are the absolute building blocks for anything you learn later. Maybe cursive is something we as a society are sentimentally attached too, but I loooove looking over old documents and seeing the gorgeous script. Now trig.....that (and any mathematics beyond geometry and algebra) is one that always get me. If you are going into a field that requires it, you probably already know that by the time you would take it (high schooler thinking about college). I took it because it was college prep and required, but being an art major, only had to take one math class in college and opted for a beginning reasoning philosophy class instead. I think it was probably one of the best classes I took (no surprise for all you classical teaching parents)! I use the logic class, have never used trig since. I've needed to use geometry and algebra, but never the other. I might change my tune when my kids get to high school though and realize that I do need it to teach my kids! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I've posted my thoughts about long division before. I dug around a bit and copied an old post below - don't remember where I shared this - it wasn't here on these boards.... Like most things educational, very often content has imbedded skills that are mastered at the same time that the content is mastered. Anytime you can teach skills using content, you get more bang for your buck. The time spent is just worth more. Teaching the long-division thingie on paper was worth our time because I used it to teach life skills. I was firm. My kids learned a lot more than long division. Peace, Janice Enjoy your little people Enjoy your journey --------------------- Copied from somewhere else - I think it was a site that doesn't promote textbook arithmetic in the early grades - something I strongly disagree with. :001_smile: I have been thinking a lot about formal math instruction for the last couple of months. A group of hsing moms from our church gets together once a month to pray for each other. At our last meeting the topic of formal math came up in conversation. Several of the moms commented about how useless long-division was. Comments like: Why did we ever have to learn that? What was the point? Why should a ten-year-old struggle over long-division? We should just let them use a calculator. I couldn't keep silent any more. I told them what I had told my ten-year-old six months ago when he was complaining about long-division. He asked, "Why do I have to do this anyway? I hate this. It's too hard." My reply was along these lines: We do long-division for three reasons: 1. You have to work neatly in order to do complex long-division. 2. You have to stay focused in order to do complex long-division. You can't stop in the middle, stare into space, and go back to the problem without making a mistake. 3. When you finish the problem, you have to multiply the quotient and the divisor to check your answer. If the product does not equal the dividend, then you have to GO BACK AND CAREFULLY FIND YOUR MISTAKE - without throwing a fit. Why is that process useful? Because of long-division's sake? Of course not. Think about all of the things that you do in life that require neatness, diligence, and patience? Mathematics is an excellent tool to develop those skills. It is the one area of the curriculum that doesn't require a lot of creativity, so it can be done independently without excuses. My children are required to finish their math papers within a limited amount of time. There is no time allowed for talking, staring into space, or goofing around. They have to work independently, quickly and carefully - keeping their brains focused on the task at hand. It is easy to tell if they have been working or not; the paper doesn't lie. It is an excellent exercise in self-control, and self-control is one of the fruits that my children need help to develop. I use arithmetic to develop that. I realize that you do not promote formal, text-book math instruction in the early grades. Self-control can be developed through folding laundry, washing dishes, cleaning bathrooms, and a host of other ways. My children do those things too. Those tasks, however, require the use of their bodies. An age-appropriate amount of arithmetic trains them to sit at a table, hold still, and focus their minds on the task at hand. It is an entirely different skill. I am grateful that my children are mastering it. It makes teaching them a pleasure. Arithmetic, when applied appropriately, can be used to meet higher goals, and I feel like sometimes people fail to see it as a useful tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jplain Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I'm baffled by the suggestion to stop teaching long division. Is there another way to do division without a calculator crutch? There are plenty of times when I've needed long division when I had no calculator around. I use it all the time in the grocery store to mentally compare unit prices.... Cursive I can do without, but kids should at least learn to read it. I feel similarly about radial clocks. It is basic knowledge, like tying shoes. Prime numbers hardly seem worthy of the chopping block. Really, how much time is spent on them? I consider primes to be an important part of developing familiarity with numbers...in other words, primes stimulate the kind of exploration that helps to make kids comfortable with math. I don't understand the inclusion of logs, trig, etc. in that list. Those things aren't required for high school graduation, but they most certainly are required for some college majors. Why would schools offering them to those who want the classes? I feel similarly about home ec and shop. If there's a demand, keep offering them. If not, stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Here is an article written by mathematicians about the importance of long division. http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/longdivision.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I think part of the problem here is that individual demand isn't necessarily what is driving the supply. As we parents become increasingly more interested in kids developing marketable skills as opposed to skills in general, I think it is easy for us as a group to be confused about the underlying skills/ways of thinking that are useful to all students. What SHOULD we be demanding????? You can not keep adding to the curriculum without taking something away. Opportunity cost plagues us all. Compound that with the fact that parents are becoming increasingly pre-occupied with other things. The folks that I talk to are happy to let the experts decide what their kids will learn. So the parents that I know are not driving the demand curve. They choose the school based on reputation and past success rate. They do not get involved in the details of the what/when/how questions of the actual curriculum. So the curriculum and what is included is being selected by the "experts" who certainly have a overall responsibility to the group of students under their charge. But they lack specific responsibility for any one student. They have to do what is best for the group. So they are driving the demand curve. I'm not sure how that will work out though. Demand curves generally work best when the needs of the individual drives the curve on its own. I'm not sure how it will work out long-term as parents become more and more preoccupied with other things and expect an expert to predict demand and then shoot toward that point through some artificial method. Just blue-skyin here..... I'm sure there are terrific examples in the past that we could point to..... Peace, Janice Enjoy your little people Enjoy your journey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez J Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Here is an article written by mathematicians about the importance of long division. http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/longdivision.pdf This article is one of the four on the blog I posted above. Great article! Really got me thinking. Lesley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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