Has anyone used RS4K Level II with a younger child?

[Kay in Cal]

We finished Level I last year (just for fun, in addition to Science Explorer Earth Science), and my ds7 says he wants to give Level II a go. He paged through the book today, and though it intimidates me a bit (AP Chem was a LONG time ago), he says he thinks he can do it. His goal is to be a chemist.

 

Has anyone done level II with a younger child? If he wanted to move on in Chemistry next year, what would follow this?

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm not sure what I would follow it with. You might want to intersperse Tiner's "Exploring the World of Chemistry" between RS4K Level I and Level II. Tiner provides a great deal of good knowledge of the patterns in the periodic table, along with historical context for the major discoveries that shaped the field of chemistry historically. It has Christian content, but in a historical way (i.e. not so much "God wanted him to discover this and so he did;" more of "This particular chemist studied this field because he wanted to understand God's creation better.")

 

RS4K II is not a complete chemistry program by any means, but more than any others I have seen it does show advanced topics in a way that is pretty easy to understand. I would not personally want someone to tackle it who has not already finished pre-algebra. Rainbow is probably at about the same level, but it's nomenclature is not quite as good--however, its coverage is more general and complete. Another option similar in level is Science Explorer--"Chemical Building Blocks" followed by "Chemical Interactions". Personally I like SE better than Rainbow. I think it presents the material quite engagingly and is easier to follow.

 

To move beyond that level, I think that you have to find a good high school text, and for that I have no recommendations at all. Apologia Chemistry is so wordy--I just don't know whether that suits your DS's learning style or not. It couldn't be more different from other other choices just mentioned. I have not seen the other high school level texts, so I can't evaluate them myself.

[Kay in Cal]

I had thought about Science Explorer, and will soon have those books as well through our charter. Since we have both, I can pick and choose what we want to use. Which do you think would be easier--SE or RS4K? Would one follow the other, or do they cover the same ground? I have no idea what to do afterwards for HS lab science either. Ds hasn't had pre-algebra (last year we were doing grade level 4 in EPGY, we haven't registered yet this year), but seems just fine at what I think is basic pre-algebraic thinking (ie, you could say "If 2x equals 32, what is x?" and he can tell you, he understands negative numbers and knows how to use them arithmetically, etc). My guess is we'll be hitting agebra pretty soon.

 

I think we'll do Physics next year, but if he continues his passion for chemistry, he'll probably want to do that as well. I know 7 is young, but he's loved chemistry for three years now--not long in the scope of things, but almost half his life!

 

I'm going to check out "Exploring the World of Chemistry"--maybe our library has it, if not I'll order it. Thank you so much!

Edited September 10, 2009 by Kay in Cal

[Carol in Cal.]

So it's hard to advise you.

 

I do think that Tiner would be a good choice for right now--better than starting RS4KII and not really learning it. Do you have experiment books that you could combine or intersperse with Tiner? I do like the Adventures with Atoms and Molecules books, as well as Awesome Ocean Science, but your DS sounds like he might be too advanced for those already. Another option is digging on Ebay for those old Reader's Digest books that were recommended for logic stage chemistry in the original WTM. They are OOP, but as experiment books they are better than the AAM's, and they are very colorful and engaging.

 

It would be good if he could manipulate unit multipliers before starting RS4K II. I'm not sure where that comes up in your math curriculum, but in Saxon it's taught thoroughly in 87, and touched on in at least 76 and maybe 65 as well--I don't quite remember.

 

For what it covers, I like RS4K chemistry better than any other program. However, it doesn't cover a whole year's worth of chemistry. Since I love chemistry, my DD is doing both RS4KII and the SE books, but most people would probably pick one or the other. If I had to pick one, and if DD was not doing state testing, I would pick RS4K II, because it teaches chemistry RIGHT. But if she were doing state testing, I would pick SE because it's more comprehensive.

 

If your DS is already doing middle school level chemistry, I would do all of them. Seriously. Otherwise you'll never keep up with him, LOL! And the order I would pick would be:

 

Tiner now, possibly mixed with an experiment book

SE

RS4KII

[EKS]

You might want to take a look at Conceptual Chemistry as well. It has a DVD with videos that go with the book. We've done the first chapter and so far I'm impressed. However, the target audience is college students (non-science majors, but they still have 18+ years of experience in the world) so that could be a problem. The book is arranged so that the math (easy math) can be removed if desired.

 

This link has sample chapters (they are from an older edition but should still give you an idea):

 

http://www.aw-bc.com/info/suchocki/

 

This link tells about the DVD (which is packaged with the text):

 

http://www.conceptchem.com/

[Storm Bay]

RS4K II & Conceptual Chemistry are two entirely different kinds of Chemistry programs!!! Conceptual Chemistry is geared for liberal arts majors in College and the emphasis is on understanding the concepts, so that may or may not work. RS4K has simpler language over all, but does have great illustrations of orbitals.

 

Conceptual Chemistry, according to dd, is easier to understand than RS4K II, so I think the suggestion to do that before RS4K II could work well, even though we did it the other way (I just wanted a high school Chem program with little math the first time around.) Conceptual Chemistry has three levels of questions at the end of each chapter, so you can pick and choose what you ask. Also, the Chemistry Alive! lectures for the first 12 chapters are a lot of fun.

 

We haven't done these with younger dc, though, but used a lot of trade books, etc, instead. Dd understands both books, but she's 14, and wishes that they would go into greater details about certain things, but is still learning something. I haven't tried Tiner, but it sounds like that just might be a better suggestion right now.

 

Dr. Keller told me when I asked that RS4K II is not a complete high school course, and she's right, but it is a great course to do before high school or as part of a high school course (at the freshman level). It's geared for grades 7-9, so would only be good if you're sure your dc can handle that level of material and really understand it. There's quite a jump between levels 1 & 2, IMO.

[Kay in Cal]

Ok... so we started yesterday on RS4K II. I'm trying to teach him to read and take notes for information, so he read a section, wrote down vocabulary words, then defined them orally for me as I asked questions. This was all easy intro stuff, but his interest level is high, and he does test as PG, so the level isn't that surprising. Part of the challenge of teaching him is that his handwriting is atrocious. He can spell just fine, but he can barely print... he says his hand just cant keep up with his brain.

 

I should have the Science Explorer books by next week. If we hit a wall in RS4K, we'll jump in there to supplement, back and forth as we see fit. My dh (with whom I share homeschooling duties) loves chemistry as well, so we'll probably have a fun year.

 

Then... what to do for physics next year?

Edited September 11, 2009 by Kay in Cal

[Storm Bay]

Ok... so we started yesterday on RS4K II. I'm trying to teach him to read and take notes for information, so he read a section, wrote down vocabulary words, then defined them orally for me as I asked questions. This was all easy intro stuff, but his interest level is high, and he does test as PG, so the level isn't that surprising. Part of the challenge of teaching him is that his handwriting is atrocious. He can spell just fine, but he can barely print... he says his hand just cant keep up with his brain.

 

I should have the Science Explorer books by next week. If we hit a wall in RS4K, we'll jump in there to supplement, back and forth as we see fit. My dh (with whom I share homeschooling duties) loves chemistry as well, so we'll probably have a fun year.

 

Then... what to do for physics next year?

 

If he's PG,he'll probably handle it very well indeed. I don't have any PG dc, but I do have at least one who could handle that level of information in Physics at a very early age. RS4K II didn't go deep enough for my 14 yo, though, and neither does Conceptual Chemistry, so I'm hoping to get her into AP Chem as soon as she has enough math under her belt.

[Kay in Cal]

Yes... I think we'll definitely have to follow it with more Chemistry soon... how are you planning on doing

AP sciences? I haven't even thought about that yet.

[EKS]

AP sciences? I haven't even thought about that yet.

 

You know what's great about AP? The AP Central website has all kinds of information about textbooks and supplemental materials. It also has course descriptions and sample syllabi. I used it to design a human geography course for my son this year and it made it probably the easiest planning I've ever done for homeschooling. It's sort of like a national curriculum for rigorous high school courses. It was awesome.

[Storm Bay]

Yes... I think we'll definitely have to follow it with more Chemistry soon... how are you planning on doing

AP sciences? I haven't even thought about that yet.

 

 

EKS has basically answered this. Since I plan to do this for an AP high school credit, I am going to have the course(s) I do approved by them. Kids can take AP exams without having the course be an AP credit, but I want it to be better for transcripts. Right now I'm only planning on AP Chem & Bio for dd, but that could change; it all depends on when she becomes motivated. I think she will, based on some patterns I've seen, but she needs to pass a birthday or two first (she's 14, which is not generally the easiest age.)

[JennW in SoCal]

Hi Kay!

 

Random thoughts here...

 

Can your ds type? My kids both learned to type very early on so their output could keep pace with their brains. They take notes on their lap tops, write narrations and essays on their laptops. They plugged away with handwriting workbooks for years just so they could fill out an application and not be rejected by the sheer illegibility of their handwriting! One has decent handwriting while the other is just hopeless.

 

My .02 on what else to do for chemistry is my usual outside the box suggestions.

 

Get the Thames and Kosmos Chem 2000 chemistry kit. The charter school should let you use your funds to purchase it. It comes with a great manual of all kinds of experiments.

 

To supplement RS4KII, surround your ds with as much non-curriculum science as possible. Get a subscription to Scientific America, listen to pod casts of Science Friday from NPR. The scientific journal Nature has podcasts as well that are not watered down for the layman. Read science biographies and science books -- my 14yo loved Death By Black Hole by Neil DeGrasse Tyson. And he really loves listening to A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson.

 

Spend some time looking at the web sites of chemical corporations as they likely have education pages with lesson plans and obviously look at the plans geared for high schoolers as everything else will be too simplistic. Mining companies have cool web sites as well -- I found all kinds of cool stuff when we were planning a trip to Arizona and thinking of visiting a copper mine.

 

Your son is still at that enthusiastic sponge stage of wanting to learn everything and at the frustrating stage of being way above elementary science but not necessarily ready for pure high school science. There is NOTHING satisfactory geared for this stage -- granted I didn't know about RS4K when my kids hit this stage (or it didn't exist), but I found lots to keep my kids engaged by using the kinds of thing I've mentioned. And watching NOVA and Mythbusters religiously!

 

Oh!! And ask your EF if the charter school has the Teaching Company series on chemistry -- or even the Joy of Science. Not many of TC courses are in the area public libraries but I've pestered the charter school relentlessly to order these.

[Storm Bay]

Hi Kay!

 

To supplement RS4KII, surround your ds with as much non-curriculum science as possible. Get a subscription to Scientific America, listen to pod casts of Science Friday from NPR. The scientific journal Nature has podcasts as well that are not watered down for the layman. Read science biographies and science books -- my 14yo loved Death By Black Hole by Neil DeGrasse Tyson. And he really loves listening to A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson.

 

 

We're going to be getting a Chem mag for high schoolers this year you may also be interested if you want something fun that's has more than kids' science magazines (such as the Chemistry of chocolate). The magazine is called Chem Matters, and you can find information on it at http://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/content?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=PP_TRANSITIONMAIN&node_id=1090&use_sec=false&sec_url_var=region1&__uuid=554d1a00-e5ea-4daa-a095-787793f8029e fwiw, my dd has fun reading Odyssey, even though it's for kids around 12-14 or something like that, just because it's fun, not so much for brain food. Both of these magazines have things for teachers to use to make lessons with if you are interested in that sort of thing.