History Odyssey for Logic stage

[Sunkirst]

Last year I followed TWTM's suggestion for Ancients, but I found that we weren't really approaching it from a logic stage perspective (meaning that I wasn't doing enough to encourage discussion, and that ds was just accepting whatever he read without questioning or analyzing).

 

I think that part of this is that ds is dyslexic and we have been playing catch up for quite some time. I'm nervous about expecting too much, especially as his punctuation/spelling skills are probably about 2nd-3rd grade level. However, he is quite good at summarizing (he narrates to me), and his comprehension is at grade level. When we do discuss things, I can see that he has totally moved into logic level thought. I'm wondering if a curriculum designed for logic stage would help me bring ds to his full potential.

 

So, I've downloaded HO's "try before you buy" PDF for Medieval II, and looked through the lessons. Among other things, I Love how they do geography, and I appreciate how they guide the student into analysis and discussion, but I just cannot imagine completing even half of what is expected. (Currently, we do history twice a week for about an hour to 1 1/2. In that time, we cover 1 two page spread from the KHE, do a 1 level outline, color a map, do timeline dates, and sometimes narrate a outside reading summary.)

 

Who here uses History Odyssey? Do you do it all? Could it be cut down to just twice weekly? (lessons would almost have to be omitted!) Or should I just stick with TWTM's recommendations and try to ramp it up a bit?

 

Thanks for your help,

[Trixie]

We've been using HO/Logic for the Ancients for about 2 years, but only as a "serving suggestion." ;) Also, ours is an unschoolish LCC approach rather than WTM, so we don't really have a schedule. We read a lot of history and ds (10) loves maps, so we spend a lot of time on it.

 

I do like the maps, the timeline suggestions, and the book lists that HO provides; but we don't do any of the outlining or busywork (e.g. keeping lists of historical figures, writing summary paragraphs). Instead, we discuss those things, do lots of activities and projects, and read *lots* of additional books. I don't think we've missed out on anything--quite the contrary, in fact. I think you can get just as much out of the general program that way, especially if writing is an issue for your ds.

 

The HO TOC and book list for each guide are available online, and I'll probably use those as general references instead of the actual curriculum when we do medieval history. We'll also use our blackline maps and our own book lists and projects again. We do enough other writing that I don't see the point of all of the busywork writing in HO, at least not now, for my ds.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Who here uses History Odyssey? Do you do it all? Could it be cut down to just twice weekly? (lessons would almost have to be omitted!) Or should I just stick with TWTM's recommendations and try to ramp it up a bit?

 

We used HO Level 2 for Ancients and Middle Ages. You may read my review in this thread. We covered most of the lessons, skipping the research ones, and I did modify it to be less writing intensive. I think it would be very difficult to cover 2x weekly. We did 3x weekly.

 

HTH!

Edited September 7, 2009 by Sue in St Pete

[calandalsmom]

My friend is using this and she says its almost impossible to finsih it all. She too is having to pick and choose. Its a very full program.

[Sunkirst]

Thanks all -- your responses confirm my suspicions that much of the list keeping is busy work. (and what a novel idea to discuss the items in these lists, Trixie! I swear, my brain just needs a thumping to get it working now and again).

 

Rereading the logic history part of TWTM last night, I realized that SWB does give us plenty of fodder for instigating discussion about readings, as well as plenty of book/activity/primary source suggestions. (and lack of enough appropriate reading seemed to be a common complaint in Sue's review thread). I can certainly find black line maps and have ds fill them in based on his atlas and history encyclopedia reading.

 

The mediocre reviews, coupled with a desire to keep both ds and dd6 in tandem for history, will probably keep me from buying HO new, but I can see buying it used, or maybe getting the PDF.

 

Thanks again

[Mary in MN]

My ds likes it, I love it. He likes to work independently and the program has been a real sanity saver in our house. I don't consider the writing busywork (though filing everything in separate sections was a hassle that we abandoned)--in fact, in retrospect, after 3 years of HO, I'd credit most of his strength as a writer to HO. He can summarize and outline quickly and easily and writes the research reports with ease. And this kid was a mediocre, reluctant writer early on, though he was always a strong reader.

 

That said, I'd agree that you can get a lot out of the program by doing it orally, especially with an ld kid. Just wanted to point out that for another kind of learner, the writing is excellent, incremental training in the kind of writing I'd like to see from my freshman comp. students. Writing short summaries and outlines every day seemed like good training and practice to me, not busywork.

[HiddenJewel]

My oldest dd used HO Ancients Level 2 part way through last year (before we combined history). It is plenty doable without skipping assignments. And I did not see it as having busywork (and I detest busywork!) From what I have read of SWB's recommendations, logic stage writing is just what HO uses: outlining and summaries. And I felt that HO did a great job of assigning that.

 

If I needed a program where my student could work independently I would definitely use HO again.

[MariannNOVA]

I just finished writing lesson plans for the next two weeks, and I was about to ask if anyone really completes one lesson per sitting if they are using History Odyssey (and we are doing Middle Ages - Level 2).

 

This more than answers my question. Thanks so much!

 

DD10 loves it, I really like it, but dd10 tends to become overly engrossed in the material and I noticed this evening when planning that lessons are taking 3-4 days each. She does the reading of the novels at night rather than during class time. We won't skip the writing as her IEW writing is coming from the HO material. I'll tell her to speed it up :glare:.

[Mary in MN]

Neither of my two boys could stand the History Pockets. I though for sure my younger son would go for them because he was always project-oriented, but all that cutting and pasting made him batty. I ended up compromising and just having him read--and do the summaries :D

[HiddenJewel]

Neither of my two boys could stand the History Pockets. I though for sure my younger son would go for them because he was always project-oriented, but all that cutting and pasting made him batty. I ended up compromising and just having him read--and do the summaries :D

 

We didn't do the History Pockets either.

[dangermom]

I was given a History Pocket book on the Civil War and was going to let my daughter do it on her own time, since she loves cutting/pasting/projects. But it's an awful lot even for her!

[Trixie]

Ugh. History Pockets. Heavy on cutting-and-pasting, light on content. They seem designed primarily for elementary school classroom use, where supplies and time are limited and the teacher needs something to use as filler or to round out a lesson.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Thanks all -- your responses confirm my suspicions that much of the list keeping is busy work.

I hope I did not give this impression. I would disagree.

[Trixie]

Thanks all -- your responses confirm my suspicions that much of the list keeping is busy work.

 

I hope I did not give this impression. I would disagree.

 

I wouldn't necessarily want to give that impression, either. *For us* it was busywork, but we don't follow TWTM; we take a much more unschoolish, hands-on approach than most posters here and cover writing in other ways. For those looking for a curriculum that can be used virtually independently by a child and that follows TWTM recommendations, HO is probably quite good. I would still caution, though, that there is a *lot* of writing and list keeping--something to keep in mind when deciding whether or not the curriculum will suit your child's individual needs and learning style.

[Robin in DFW]

...I was wondering if anyone uses this a level "off"?

 

My ds12 (July birthday) has used SOTW with add-ins...we have planned to use volume 4 this year.

 

Level 2 seems a bit much for a 12 year old, at least the Modern Times package seems a little "old".

 

Do you think using Level 1 Modern would be sufficient?

 

Some of the books for Level 1 Modern are SO easy, but yet the books for Level 2 Modern are, imho, more high school level.

 

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Robin

[HiddenJewel]

...I was wondering if anyone uses this a level "off"?

 

My ds12 (July birthday) has used SOTW with add-ins...we have planned to use volume 4 this year.

 

Level 2 seems a bit much for a 12 year old, at least the Modern Times package seems a little "old".

 

Do you think using Level 1 Modern would be sufficient?

 

Some of the books for Level 1 Modern are SO easy, but yet the books for Level 2 Modern are, imho, more high school level.

 

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Robin

 

I remember reading that the manuals in level 2 get harder as you go through the time periods. So it would be true that Modern would be more advanced than Ancients. And I think Ancients is a great fit for middle school and even 9th grade depending on the student.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Last year I followed TWTM's suggestion for Ancients, but I found that we weren't really approaching it from a logic stage perspective (meaning that I wasn't doing enough to encourage discussion, and that ds was just accepting whatever he read without questioning or analyzing).

How does HO help with this specifically? (I know, I am always thinking way ahead, lol)

[dangermom]

I want to know that too; and my 9yo will be there next year. If HO will work for us I want to know now! :)

[Amy C]

My ds 13 is using HO Modern level 1 this year. He reads SOTW and the DK Visual History Encyclopedia. I add in Abraham Lincoln's World and The Growth of the British Empire. We have the test book for SOTW, so I have him answer the questions from that. I really like the way HO is organized and it is very easy to add in extra reading. Each topic is broken out by week and lists additional books.

 

Amy

[dangermom]

Hrm. I got hold of a copy of Medieval, level 2, and one lesson says "Feudalism was introduced by William the Conqueror to keep order..." :glare: OK, William did not invent the feudal system. I suppose they meant to say that he introduced it into England (which I think may be only about half right), but that's not at all clear.

 

I'm not seeing a ton of logic-stage discussion stuff, though I like the lessons otherwise. I will have to think about this. BTW has SWB given any opinion on HO, esp. for logic stage? There's nothing in WTM that I recall.

[Lovedtodeath]

I haven't seen Susan review any history programs other than her own.;)