*sigh* BTDT moms? My strong-minded child is so exhausting!

[Ginevra]

Thanks, Pamela and Kleine Hexe, you gave me a lot to think about, particularly the idea that the world stops if the task isn't accomplished. We already had two struggles this morning. The first was over putting on underwear--actually not a very big deal to me, but I had already told her to go do it, so I had to hold to it. She tried to sit on my lap and I wouldn't even let her get halfway. We agreed that as long as I didn't put my laptop back on my lap in her place, she would run and put them on, and she did. Then I told her to clean up her money box and the new little purse her grandmother gave her, and that I was only telling her once. Then they became mine. She said OK, and proceeded to start doing something else. I quietly picked up the money, packed it all up, and headed toward my room. She threw herself in front of me and begged for a second chance. I said she could have one more, put all the parts exactly where they were, and sat back down. She cleaned everything up, packed it all into the box, took it into her room, and PUT IT EXACTLY WHERE IT BELONGED! I shouldn't have allowed the second chance there, but I've been so lax about the first-time compliance that I wanted to give her a chance to do good now that she knows I'm getting serious, and she did...this time!

 

I'm sure I'll be posting again on this subject soon. Quill, maybe by then you'll be in a position to give me advice on dealing with the 4-year-old version? :D

 

I gave ds a second chance today with something, too, and it worked out for the best. Here is what went down:

 

He was about to get out the checkers. I warned him that if he got out the checkers, he would have to clean them up when he was done. He agreed.

As he started to play with the checkers, he invented a "game" where he would tap the checkers on the leg of my desk. (This is a little fold-up desk with metal legs.) I was working on a cross-stitch and told him not to tap on the desk; it bothers what I'm working on. He did it some more. I told him if he did that again, I was taking the checkers away. He just *barely* brushed a checker on the leg. (Yes, he is quite the envelope-pusher.) I instantly got up (remembering all this great advice here) and started putting the checkers away. This was hard, naturally, because now he was FREAKING out. I told him he must stop screaming or he will go to his room. He didn't stop. I put him in a wrestlers cradle-hold and carried him to his room. The cradle-hold was necessary because he was kicking so furiously. I took him to his room and sat on his bed with him still tied up. I told him when he calmed down, I would loosen up and we could sit. He did. So did I. We talked about how he needs to obey and when I tell him not to do something, he must not do it. Not a little bit, not almost but not quite, not at all. Then, I offered he could play with the checkers again if he would play with them and not tap the desk. I asked him to repeat back to me what would be allowed and what not. Then, we went back to the room and I gave him back the checkers. We had no further issue after this.

[melissel]

I'm in favor of the concept of taking him to the library specifically for training purposes, and I may do that. However, I don't get taking him straight out. To begin with, it is exceedingly unfair to my other two children. Nothing engenders sibling hatred like one child making it so the other two never get their own pleasures. Secondly, who can afford this waste of time? This is quite the more a punishment to myself than to my son! I have heard of the advice to leave a grocery store, for example, but I could never, ever feature someone actually doing this. You really leave the ice cream melting in the cart and relinquish your own need to purchase food? Who here really does this? Who says, "Yes, I know I need ground round, but since Johnny is not cooperating, I'll just leave it all sit here, have cereal for dinner tonight and hope we have time tomorrow." :confused:

 

Well, with the training trips to the library, I wouldn't do it unless I could do it without the other kids, for the most part. And yeah, it's uncomfortable and inconvenient for you, but so is what happened at the library the other day, right? I think of it as an investment in library trips for the future.

 

As for the misbehaving kid at the grocery store, yeah, I'd leave too and we'd have cereal for dinner, but that wouldn't be as a punishment or a training exercise. That would be because I won't subject myself and other shoppers to a tantruming kid at the store, and because I'd eventually be so angry that I'd be afraid I'd do something that would be over the line for me. I also think that grocery store trips are too much for some kids--honestly, they're often too much for me, and I'm pretty mean and snarly while I'm in there. So I have different reasons for that one (maybe).

[lulubelle]

I think my 7 yo son needs military school! It would do him good. Today, he decided he would wad up toilet paper and stuff it down the bathroom sink drain! He would not admit to doing it, until I talked him in to telling me. He says he doesn't know why he did it. Then, I talk to my husband about it. He says he was like that too. He just did things to do it. No real reason. Just to see what would happen. No thought beyond that. I'm thinking great, I have an adult one and a child one! It just doesn't seem fair. But, I must say I was relieved to hear my husbands words. It's okay. It's normal. It may not seem "right" to me, but a boy like this needs a little room to explore. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone and he makes good choices most of the time. God is in control. I need to loosen up more.

[melissel]

I asked him to repeat back to me what would be allowed and what not.

 

Awesome! I've been doing the repeat-back too, actually. She never hears me the first time. It's so funny that we're so on the same page with a lot of this!

[melissel]

I think my 7 yo son needs military school! It would do him good. Today, he decided he would wad up toilet paper and stuff it down the bathroom sink drain! He would not admit to doing it, until I talked him in to telling me. He says he doesn't know why he did it. Then, I talk to my husband about it. He says he was like that too. He just did things to do it. No real reason. Just to see what would happen. No thought beyond that. I'm thinking great, I have an adult one and a child one! It just doesn't seem fair. But, I must say I was relieved to hear my husbands words. It's okay. It's normal. It may not seem "right" to me, but a boy like this needs a little room to explore. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone and he makes good choices most of the time. God is in control. I need to loosen up more.

 

ROFL! Sometimes I see the kids doing things, and I think WHY? How would one even think of that, let alone consider giving it a try? Then I think back to some of the bizarre things I did in my childhood for no real reason. One day, when I was whatever age you are when you're learning cursive, I though it would be a good idea to practice lower-case, cursive Gs all along the pristine white quarter round molding where one wall met the floor in my bedroom. My parents were like, "WHY? WHAT would possess you to do that?" I clearly remember not being able to answer them, because I had no idea why!

[Ginevra]

ROFL! Sometimes I see the kids doing things, and I think WHY? How would one even think of that, let alone consider giving it a try? Then I think back to some of the bizarre things I did in my childhood for no real reason. One day, when I was whatever age you are when you're learning cursive, I though it would be a good idea to practice lower-case, cursive Gs all along the pristine white quarter round molding where one wall met the floor in my bedroom. My parents were like, "WHY? WHAT would possess you to do that?" I clearly remember not being able to answer them, because I had no idea why!

 

:lol: Once, my older son peed in the bathroom trashcan about 3 INCHES away from the toilet! I was...WHY???? He didn't know.

 

One time, my neice was over and she wrote "diet coke" on the wall in my kitchen. Tiny. But there. I was thoroughly...WHAT?!:D This same neice one time emptied about 3/4 of a Costco-sized hand-sanitizer pump throughout the house. Just wanted to see how the pump worked. :lol:

[Mom-ninja.]

My turn! My turn! I remember, when I was about 6 or so, sitting in the back seat of the car. No car seats or seatbelts in those good ol' days. I had an orange chapstick. The back of the driver's seat in front of me was made with a bunch of skinny long grooves in the material. I used to love to run my hand over and over it. Anyway, back to the chapstick. I decided to draw all over the back of this seat while my mom was driving. I don't know why. I also knew I was going to be in big trouble when she saw it. I knew she was going to spank me. I didn't care. I couldn't stop drawing. I didn't want to stop. It was worth a spanking to me. It was fun. I marveled at the waxy sticky chapstick getting stuck in those little grooves. It was very satisfying. I still feel the satisfaction.

 

My parents yelled at me and asked why I did it. I just stared at them blankly and shrugged.

[Garga]

In stores or libraries when my son acts up, I tell him that if he keeps doing *fill in the bad behavior here*, we will stay at the store/library LONGER--until he stops doing *fill in the bad behavior here.*

 

My guy likes to act up so that he annoys me so that I take him out of the store/library/wherever. But if he does that, I just make us stay there longer. And longer. Until he stops. Yes, it's irritating and embarrassing, but really, we've only had to do it a couple of times before the behavior gets better.

 

I mean, he'll never be the quiet kid holding my hand and looking around while he's by my side, like my other son. But at least I don't have him acting like a wild animal in the store.

 

P.S. Grandma bought the boys (6 and 4) used gameboys for Christmas. It's been the best thing EVER. We only use them at the grocery store and when waiting for appointments (doctor, haircut.) So we use them about 4-6 times a month. And my boys are quiet and happy as clams when we're shopping.

 

I know some parents are very much against these types of games, but if you're not and if you're able to use them infrequently, so the novelty doesn't wear off and the kids' brains don't turn to mush, they can be a blessing.

[ondreeuh]

I think some kids are not ready at 4 for the kind of self-control we think they should have. When my son was that age/stage, I bought a stroller that had a five-point harness and fit a child up to 50 lbs. If he didn't stay with me, he went in the stroller. I needed him to be safe but I also needed to follow my own agenda, and this worked for us. As he got older and more mature, he improved a lot.

[melissel]

*sigh* We had a bad night tonight :( I think I won the "battle," and I'm pretty sure I did the right thing (sort of. maybe?) but I feel like a monster. Why are they so difficult??? Blah.

[Ginevra]

*sigh* We had a bad night tonight :( I think I won the "battle," and I'm pretty sure I did the right thing (sort of. maybe?) but I feel like a monster. Why are they so difficult??? Blah.

 

:grouphug: Here's to us both having a good day today and keeping our heads together so we can help these kiddos keep theirs.

[mom2att]

I think some kids are not ready at 4 for the kind of self-control we think they should have. When my son was that age/stage, I bought a stroller that had a five-point harness and fit a child up to 50 lbs. If he didn't stay with me, he went in the stroller. I needed him to be safe but I also needed to follow my own agenda, and this worked for us. As he got older and more mature, he improved a lot.

 

Yup--I kept my son in a 5-point harness car seat probably past the weight limit because he needed that external control. There were many times we left the mall, a playdate, whatever, and just went and sat in the car with him buckled in. If he was able to regain control, we went back. If not, we went home. We also had a "self-control" chair at home that he had to sit in. I'm not against spanking, but it truly made things worse and more out of control with this kid.

 

To all of you who are in the middle of this, hang in there--it does get better. My son just turned nine and every day I am amazed at the person he is becoming. Just last summer I was truly worried about his ability to function in real life as an adult, but now I know he will not only function, but thrive. When he was three and four he was a handful, but as Mommy's little lesson in humility he was a real winner. His progress on the path to maturity and self-control started at five with baby steps, and now I am in awe and so thankful at how far he's come.

 

Three books helped me through the mire of out-of-bounds behavior:

The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene

Raising Your Spirited Child by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka

The Sensory-Sensitive Child by Smith and Gouze

[Pamela H in Texas]

Danielle,

 

I don't see anything wrong with that you did. You followed through on multiple issues. Once they all were handled, you gave him the opportunity to try again. Too many people turn a logical consequence into punishment. Putting up the checkers was logical, as well sending him to his room, as was helping him control himself til he could himself (though I would have handled that differently but you are much nicer than I am). Once the situation is over, there is no reason we can't try again. I wouldn't have OFFERED it, but had he asked, to me, it doesn't matter if the toy has been put up 3 minutes or 3 days, as long as he agrees to use it appropriately without bothering others with the understanding that if he chooses not to he'll lose it again.

 

Am I making any sense?

[Ginevra]

Pamela, thanks. Yes, that makes sense. You've really helped me a lot. Some of the things you mentioned I "know", but I haven't been doing them, or haven't been doing them well. The reminder was highly useful.