Help ~ non math Chemistry curriculum?

[debbiec]

I'm putting together a class of 9th-10th graders for Chemistry. What is needed is something appropriate for them that does not depend heavily on math (due to the 9th graders math background). I am also adding a great deal of chem history to it. But, I need a curriculum to start with. I have Apologia, but I need something that is structured differently. Most of these kids will take formal Chemistry the following year (don't ask me why we are doing this Into/History of Chem thing this year, it's a complicated story ~ but it seems to work for everyone who is participating).

 

I have some books, but I personally want something more like a no math Introduction to Chem class. I can integrate the history portion they are requesting on my own.

 

There may not be anything our there like this ~ hopefully someone will know something, otherwise I may have to pass on teaching the class if I can't pull it together this week.

 

Many thanks, Debbie

Edited July 15, 2009 by debbiec

[Orthodox6]

I have not used Conceptual Chemistry -- discussed here: http://www.pearsonhighered.com/educator/academic/product/0,3110,0805382216,00.html -- however, it is designed for "non-science majors", so probably might be within the realm of "math-reduced". I can't conceive of chemistry devoid of math, although I can conceive of studying the "history of chemistry" with bare minimum of math required for understanding the topic.

[Storm Bay]

We're going to do Conceptual Chemistry for my dd during her freshman year, and she is going to major in science. I love the idea of learning the conceptual part of a science before the math part, and dd is going to do this with only Algebra 1, so we're happy about this. Do get one with the Chemistry Alive! CD-Rom--the newer editions come witih this. We're also going to do the Thinkwell Chem computer lectures.

 

(we will do a mathy AP Chem or something later since she is going into the sciences.)

[susie in tx]

There is a chem for 12-15 yo's at Noeo Science. It's level 3. Maybe it will give you some ideas.

 

http://www.noeoscience.com/chemIII.html

[debbiec]

I'll look into Conceptual Chemistry. I have kids that will be in Algebra I, Geomtry and Algebra II, so that is why I need something for all of them. And I need math "reduced" ~ not actually "no-math" ~ good point. I should have been more clear. I'll look at ~ thanks.

[debbiec]

OK, I'm looking on line ~ is this Conceptual Chemistry (college level)? Or is there a high school version (like Conceptual Physics)

[Storm Bay]

OK, I'm looking on line ~ is this Conceptual Chemistry (college level)? Or is there a high school version (like Conceptual Physics)

 

 

I think there's just a college version. That's what we're going to use. In our case, it will be good, because dd wants to go deeper than her math ability will let her go in most courses. I haven't seen the Noeo Level 3, but Noeo was not a good fit in our house at the level we tried it--too Charlotte Masony for our learning/teaching styles (we do use a bit of that type of stuff somewhere along the line, but it failed for us in science.)

[debbiec]

Yes, I looked at Noeo Chem, and it would not work for us for the same reason. I need something structured. From what I can tell on line, the Conc. Chem. is usually offered as a late college prep class~ won't work for 2 of the kids ~ unless of course, if I modify it. Thanks ~

[Kareni]

You might wish to look at the curriculum by Ellen McHenry. She has The Elements for grades 4 to 8 and Carbon Chemistry for grades 5 to 9.

 

My husband who teaches high school level Chemistry to homeschoolers finds that many (most) of the students are very poorly prepared math-wise. If the 9th graders are taking Algebra I concurrently this year, you might want to incorporate Bridge Math from the publishers of The Rainbow towards the end of the year.

 

One other possibility to consider: Caveman Chemistry. I don't recall how much math would be involved with this book; however, you can browse the entire book at the link above.

 

Regards,

Kareni

Edited July 15, 2009 by Kareni

[Carol in Cal.]

It would concern me. Chemistry at the high school level really should include algebra. If 9th and 10th graders are not ready for that, then I would strongly suggest a different branch of science for them. I don't think that you can give high school science credit for this class.

 

High school classes that don't necessarily require algebra include biology, earth science, environmental science and marine biology. I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

 

Even RS4K Chem Level II, at about an 8th grade level, uses pre-algebra math. I wouldn't want to teach that course to someone who hasn't covered pre-algebra decently thoroughly in advance.

 

I have heard good things about the Teach Company DVD's teaching the math of chemistry in detail. Those might be worth looking at to see whether they would enable the kids to take a real high school chemistry class. You could maybe cover the DVD's first, with lots of practice, and then launch high school chemistry.

 

I have a chemical engineering degree, and I know whereof I speak ;)

[Miss Marple]

Is there are reason to teach chemistry to these kids or would it be possible to do another science? I would hesitate to teach chemistry unless the student is proficient (or very good at math and taking algebra 1 concurrently) in algebra. Most high schoolers don't take chemistry in 9th grade due to the math problem.

 

One of my concerns would be crediting this class for high school. A non-algebra based chemistry simply would not be equivalent to a traditional chemistry course. You could, of course, call it "intro to chemistry", but that might not satisfy college entrance reqs. And you would have used up a high school year doing a course that might not work for a student when applying to college.

 

I cannot think of a high school level chemistry course that doesn't require algebra. Even Apologia which is "chemistry light" IMO, still requires it. I agree with Carol in Cal that another science might be more appropriate.

[Guest forson]

I really like the Real Science 4 Kids. It is very good. It is by Gravitis Publication. Comes with experienements.

 

Diane

[Susan C.]

I really like the Real Science 4 Kids. It is very good. It is by Gravitis Publication. Comes with experienements.

 

Diane

 

And the Level 2 says it is for up to 9th grade. Probably equal to the chemistry that is in physical science??

[Orthodox6]

OP said that most of the students would take traditional chemistry the next year. (strange pattern, but she cited reasons)

 

Are the parents of this co-op (if that be the group) unaware that physical science (the fundamentals of both chemistry and physics) is the most common choice for 9th grade science ? Could you talk them into that for the course ?

 

From what I remember seeing of RS4K Level 2, it would make a poor choice for a credit-conferring high school chemistry course. I don't think it should be used past 8th grade.

 

I think that Carol and Cynthia offer wise counsel that these students are not yet ready for high school chemistry, if they don't have the math under their belts. In my era, algebra II and chemistry I were studied in the same high school year.

 

If you consider shifting to physical science, one of my sons used Hewitt's Conceptual Physical Science: Explorations in the 9th grade. He was taking algebra I at the same time, and the course was a perfect "fit" for him. (We all love that textbook !) Although it is a college text, it is used by high schoolers.

[Storm Bay]

And the Level 2 says it is for up to 9th grade. Probably equal to the chemistry that is in physical science??

 

 

Dd is doing RS4K Chem 2 right now. I was originally going to do Biology in gr 9, but after hearing Dr. Keller speak last year, changed my mind. She suggested doing Chem, then Physics, then Biology and had some great reasons why. Some argue that it should be Physics, Chem & then Biology. Afterward, I asked her a few questions, and mentioned that my dd wants to major in Biochem. I asked if her Level 2 would be enough. She said it would do part of what she needed. I can't remember now who suggested Conceptual Chem, but I really do think you can do a Conceptual course as long as you are sure to get the math in at some point. In our case, dd will do an AP Chem course. I feel very strongly that understanding all the stuff will only help dd when it comes to adding the math. It also will reduce our battles.

 

She will follow this with Conceptual Physics, the college level one. I discussed this with my brother, who has a Ph.D. in Physics and teaches it at the university level. He has seen the college level book (in fact, he sent me his sample copy since he doesn't teach Conceptual Physics.) He said it would be fine for her to do as her hs Physics course, and he definitely knows that math is an integral part of Physics as you go along. But she's not going to major in Physics. If she were going to, then we'd follow that with an AP Physics course later in hs.

 

fwiw, I come from a family with a number of scientists & MDs, and studied Biology myself in university, so I'm not saying this lightly. Of course anyone who wishes to major in science is going to need to do it with math at some point along the road. However, it doesn't mean that they have to start off with that.

 

So, our plan is as follows:

 

Gr 9 Conceptual Chem with labs (I think labs, and designing your own experiments are important.) For math, Geometry for sure, and hopefully Mathematical Ciphers if we have time.

 

Gr 10 Conceptual Physics with labs. For math, Algebra 2 with trig. (1965 or 1975 Dolciani).

 

Gr 11 Biology (probably one of the more advanced level Campbell's; I can't remember which is which off the top of my head, but ideally combined with something from a non-evolutionist POV as I want her to know more than one view). Also, an AP Chem course either here, or in the final year. Whichever math comes after the last one (pre Calc, I suppose, but we'll see where she is mathematically.)

 

Gr 12 AP Biology (and AP Chem if not already done.) Whichever math she's ready for (ideally Calculus.)

 

I really can't see how that will leave her unprepared for university/college science given that she wants to major in BioChem. One of the reasons we're homeschooling is because we don't want to do everything the regular way ;).

[Miss Marple]

but I really do think you can do a Conceptual course as long as you are sure to get the math in at some point

 

I think your plan looks great for your daughter and she will certainly be ready for college courses if she follows it. But I think even Conceptual Chemistry will require some algebra. The Conceptual Physics book by Hewitt assumes some basic algebra knowledge (finding an unknown, manipulating equations).

 

The OP mentioned that her students wouldn't be able to handle the algebra of a high school level chemistry. I wonder if her students will eventually attempt to tackle a traditional algebra based chemistry course sometime in their high school years. But at that point, they would have used up 2 years of high school doing chemistry when, if they waited until "math ready", they could have a more diverse science education.

 

BTW, I also like the physics, chemistry, biology sequence. And I do this with my boys using Conceptual Physics in 8th/9th, Chemistry in 10th, Biology in 11th, and Trig-based Physics in 12th (at least that's my goal). But even with this, one would be best served to have the student do algebra in 8th (which my boys do), but that is often not possible with some students.

Edited July 16, 2009 by CynthiaOK
additional

[MyThreeSons]

http://www.pacworks.com/pages/curriculum.html#_samples_ipc

 

I think this program might fit the bill as far as the history of chemistry goes. There are several sample lessons available at the link above. I plan to use the complete program with my 9th grader this year for a Physical Science credit.

[bclerkin]

I wish I had checked out these suggestions before trying Chemistry with my son, it was difficult to say the least.

[debbiec]

Yes, the whole thing is unconventional. Some of the kids have had Physical Science, some have finished Biology but aren't math ready for Chemistry. So, yes, they probably will take a "regular" chemistry course later. But, the moms want the kids together for a "science" this year. I think only one is considering trying to issue credit, but I'm unclear about that. Not my problem. However, I think we have landed on an agreement to teach a History of Chemistry and teach science concepts along the way (chemistry, physical science or whatever comes along). It will be more of a supplement class I think to give some science in context, and not a large focus on labs. I was sceptical at first, but intrigued. But, apparantly, something like this has been done before and a lady I talked to last night gave me a list of resources to use. Of course, this begs the question, what are they going to do next year when one of the kids will be going into Geometry, and the others either finished or taking Algebra 2. We were invited to join the group for my 10th grade son, but I wanted the traditional route, though he may attend just to pick up some history context to supplement the chem class he is taking elsewhere. Thanks for all the suggestions and concerns. Yes, it is unusual.

[debbiec]

Kareni ~ great suggestions. I have Ellen's Elements that I'm using (plus some other things) for an intro to Chem for 7th graders at a different co-op I attend/teach at. And I probably will incorporate it somewhat with what I laid out last night and this morning. I'll look at Caveman Chem (interesting name). The 4 some I'm doing this other thing for a is private group of students, though, they are calling it a tutorial because they have hired teachers for 3 days a week for their kids. Me, maybe being one of them if I can get this science thing to work for them. Thanks ~

[Kareni]

Kareni ~ great suggestions. I have Ellen's Elements that I'm using (plus some other things) for an intro to Chem for 7th graders at a different co-op I attend/teach at. And I probably will incorporate it somewhat with what I laid out last night and this morning. I'll look at Caveman Chem (interesting name). The 4 some I'm doing this other thing for a is private group of students, though, they are calling it a tutorial because they have hired teachers for 3 days a week for their kids. Me, maybe being one of them if I can get this science thing to work for them. Thanks ~

 

You're quite welcome. I hope that your tutorial will come off smoothly!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Storm Bay]

I think your plan looks great for your daughter and she will certainly be ready for college courses if she follows it. But I think even Conceptual Chemistry will require some algebra. The Conceptual Physics book by Hewitt assumes some basic algebra knowledge (finding an unknown, manipulating equations).

 

The OP mentioned that her students wouldn't be able to handle the algebra of a high school level chemistry. I wonder if her students will eventually attempt to tackle a traditional algebra based chemistry course sometime in their high school years. But at that point, they would have used up 2 years of high school doing chemistry when, if they waited until "math ready", they could have a more diverse science education.

 

BTW, I also like the physics, chemistry, biology sequence. And I do this with my boys using Conceptual Physics in 8th/9th, Chemistry in 10th, Biology in 11th, and Trig-based Physics in 12th (at least that's my goal). But even with this, one would be best served to have the student do algebra in 8th (which my boys do), but that is often not possible with some students.

 

 

Right, there is a bit of math, but not a lot of math, which I think makes it a lot easier for those with less math or who have trouble with it. I don't think there's one out there with zero math, and I think that Conceptual Chem has less of it.

 

You could do Biology first, of course, but then there could be challenges for the chemistry that is required for some of that. There is no perfect, one size fits all solution. In our case, dd will want that Chem knowledge for the cellular biology part.