If you spank, what do you do if it doesn't work?

[mrsrevmeg]

Our kids think getting grounded from something they love is the worst things ever. For my oldest is is being grounded from drawing, going to a friend's house or Legos. For the monkey in the middle it is computer/video games. For the youngest it might be going outside. No tv seems to be a big one on all three.

[Joanne]

Is your book almost finished? Have you considered working with a therapist and/or psychologist (or group of them)?

 

Well, the original post divorce plan was for me to aquire my Masters of Social Work. More recently, I was going to move forward with the book.

 

Life has happened and we've been in extended survival mode.

[Lovedtodeath]

I agree with you totally here. But unfortuately defiance in some kids won't respond to how you define discipline. I can tell my ds to go to his room till he cools down, but if he's in a real defiant mood it just sets up another way for him to defy me. He usually ends up going because I can be even more stubborn, but it isn't pretty. And he learns nothing from it.

 

What cures his defiance is the long haul of constant work with him when he *isn't* being defiant. And sometimes I can reach him before it reaches full fledge defiance -- if I handle it well.

I once had a woman tell me and a mother to be that the only problem with undisciplined children was that they hadn't been disciplined and, yes, spanked enough. Her adult children did grow up into fine adults. She also used love and reasoning with her dc.

 

But her dc also didn't have food allergies that made healthy foods act like oppiates in the blood stream and other problems. And she rejected all evidence that her brand of discipline wouldn't work for all children. Sorry, but I've seen too many dc that couldn't be reasoned with until their underlying problems were resolved or at least identified. Then the discipline could be adapted for the that And your style won't always work, as well reasoned and logical as it is. I know, I've tried it.

 

Lesson, not one method will work for all. And often defiance is a result of overly harsh discipline for that individual. I've seen it happen with dogs and I've seen it happen with kids.

:bigear: I have that dc

[Elizabeth Conley]

We spanked very rarely, and only when the child was endangering his/her life and limb. It always worked. They never repeated the misbehavior after being spanked one time.

 

If it hadn't worked, I would have been beside myself with terror. Thank God it worked.

 

I cannot imagine living in constant vigilance against life-threatening misbehavior. I guess that's why some parents lead their children on leashes. That might mitigate the stress.

[Renee in NC]

Often, children will need more than one reminder that they must obey their parents, which is what most misbehavior comes down to. I continue to spank (our spankings are short and to the point and over with), but look for additional ways to discuss and train and model what it is I expect them to do (or not to do).

 

Who is it exactly that you are still spanking?:lol::D:tongue_smilie:

[Elizabeth Conley]

Originally Posted by Dirtroad

Defiance is a really matter of the heart and not really a behavior issue. Biblically, a parent must handle defiance b/c it is disrespectful of parental authority (or other appropriate authority) and without correction, it will bleed over into society and continue.

 

People treat defiance today as opinions and expressions. I can't accept that b/c you can express an opinion to any authority respectfully and without defiance.

 

Yes, there are reasons that it harbors in the heart. As parents, we try to see these coming & work on it with the child. However, when it rears its ugly head, more corrective discipline is needed.

 

We don't always do things same way, but I did not think saying I had weak, easy children applied to my posts.

 

 

You have an important point here, Dirtroad. On rare occasions, it's been necessary for me to gently ask a fellow Christian to please stop stealing, abusing someone or committing adultery. Incredibly, these adults often respond with a "You can't make me!" attitude.

 

Of course, my natural reaction to this is "I wouldn't want to 'make you' even if I could! I'm prayerfully hopeful you'll choose something better for yourself." This is a concept defiant, willful adults have a very hard time comprehending. To be fair, I have an impossible time explaining it. It seems self-evident to me, so I never know what words to use when an adult simply refuses to behave him/her self.

 

If the problem can be addressed lovingly and patiently in childhood, so much the better. It seems to me that a child might be easier to sway in this regard than an adult.

[Pamela H in Texas]

If the problem can be addressed lovingly and patiently in childhood, so much the better. It seems to me that a child might be easier to sway in this regard than an adult.

 

This is a big reason we disciplined the way we did when the kids were young (which allows us to do it the way we do with teens). The scripture says to train a boy in the way he should go. We generally take that to be discussing the progression of John 17:3 and 1 John 5:3 (with a lot of stuff inbetween). However, most certainly it works in terms of discipline also. I really didn't want teens and young adults (esp those two ages when SO many people struggle behaviorally) to be controlled by punishment rather than having learned "the way" they should go. I didn't want punishment overhead to be the reason they chose the right direction.

 

I just wanted better for them. I don't think a rare punishment, including spanking, will prohibit the above, but I don't think it adds to it. And I think fairly regular punishment detracts from it. If I wanted better for them as teens and young adults, wanted them not to "lose their heads" temporarily as it seems most do sometime (long or short term) during those years, many times changing the course of their lives to a great degree, even permanently, I felt *I* had to make different choices, than average, when they were little. And that became even MORE necessary as I had such a challenging child.

 

I completely agree Elizabeth. If we address children differently in childhood, they will do better later on. It's very few children who grow to full adulthood (over 25?) so bad off as you describe, I would guess. And it most certainly is an adult's CHOICE of behavior at that point (not to be blamed on parents!). But I think we parents can make it easier for them as adults, but even as teens and young adults, by "training him up."

[Elizabeth Conley]

It's very few children who grow to full adulthood (over 25?) so bad off as you describe, I would guess. And it most certainly is an adult's CHOICE of behavior at that point (not to be blamed on parents!). But I think we parents can make it easier for them as adults, but even as teens and young adults, by "training him up."

 

I've come to the conclusion that defiant people are simply mistrustful. They don't believe their misbehavior will be forgiven. They think it will always be held against them. For this reason, their reaction to being caught is to write off the relationship with the person who is aware of their malfeasance. Instead of considering repentance, they simply work harder to conceal the misbehavior from the other people in their life.

 

For this reason, I think that it's important for our children to enjoy complete forgiveness in the wake of repentance. They have to trust that the love we feel for them is absolutely unconditional, and that nothing will be held against them once they agree to stop misbehaving. Only in this way can people cease to feel threatened and defensive when they've been caught misbehaving, but rather begin to calmly contemplate new behavior choices.

 

As you've previously pointed out, much of what most people see as misbehavior is actually a sign of an un-addressed need or developmental difference. My son has been hearing impaired for most of his life. He's been socially unresponsive, sad, confused and isolated. Many reputedly "nice" adults have been uninhibitedly nasty to him, and roundly condemned me as an awful parent. These people simply don't have a clue as to how to deal with handicaps and developmental differences. They condemn what they don't understand. For such people, any difference is misbehavior. What an awful way to live.

 

It's only been recently that I could send him to a play date or sleepover with another family, and trust that they would not be abusive toward him. I don't trust just anyone, and never merely on reputation. I only send him with adults who have actually demonstrated discernment, moral character, self restraint and good interpersonal skills. When the child in question has a special need, not all adults are equipped to care for him/her.

[Ellie]

Who is it exactly that you are still spanking?:lol::D:tongue_smilie:

Missy Smarty Pants.:tongue_smilie::lol: