Jon and Kate: The big announcement is out ...

[tex-mex]

This thread is now so huge, I just don't have time to read through; I apologize if this link has already been posted, but what do you think of this question: Were Christian fans 'seduced' by 'Jon & Kate' shows of piety? The article/opinion is posted today's USA Today website.

 

I am a Christian, and I would agree with this statement. Unfortunately, we Christians tend to jump on the "oh they're famous and say they're Christian" bandwagon WAY too easily. Think of how excited we got with this year's American Idol. Two genuinely great Christian guys were on the show, and we blubbered all over them. The Jonas Brothers...Miley Cyrus...What about Mel Gibson and The Passion? Why are "we" so enthralled with fame?

 

I think we're easily fooled and should be more discerning. Opinions? Flaming arrows? Tar and feathers?

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[tex-mex]

I do understand the reason for the show was to earn money to raise (and college) eight kids. But they reportedly receive $75k per episode and there are 20 episodes in the first 2 seasons and 31 in season 3.....that nearly 4 million dollars (and there is still season 4 to count). How much money do they need? I guess the real question is how much money does Kate need. She seems to be the one always harping on the money issue. That much money will pay for all 8 kids at Harvard for heavens sake, and that's if you don't invest a penny.

 

 

 

From what I've read with numerous sources and an online newspaper in Philadelphia, it appears that when the tups were born in Hershey, PA -- the governor of PA announced the 6 babies would be getting full college scholarships to any PA State college.

[KidsHappen]

You were not then and never could be a shrew. :001_wub:

 

(And sorry for outing you as the wife of this sometimes opinionated guy, but I just couldn't help myself.)

 

So now we know. What a sweetie you are.

[Pip]

I don't think we can pass judgment on their faith or perceived lack of it. Just because someone is a believer doesn't mean they don't struggle. They are sinners just like all of us, and if we are going to questions their faith and sin, we need to remember that all sin in equal in God's eyes. Yes, I know, we don't see the fruit from them, but I have been through times when I am not especially fruitful. In fact, Iv'e been downright arrogant and stupid, albeit not on national television.

 

I have seen my Christian friends deal with abuse, infidelity and addiction in their marriages.. I don't know what goes on in my best friends' marriages when the doors are closed. I know by bringing in cameras they opened their lives up to scrutiny, but they still deserve some respect. They need prayer. They lack contentment and the peace Christ has promised them.

 

We need to be careful about how we say things about their relationship with God. Sometimes the hard times force some refining of what is already there but hasn't been put through its paces to grow.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Pip

[Audrey]

I saw Kate's brother and sister in law ("Aunt Jody") on the CBS Early show a while back. They both said that the marriage was tanking then, but TLC asked them to renew their vows in Hawaii for ratings and they agreed.

 

So sad.

 

astrid

 

 

Well maybe TLC can do a reality show with each of them where they follow them around and we get to listen to them trash each other mercilessly --- kind of like that show Denise Richards had.

[abreakfromlife]

Now, I am NOT DIAGNOSING Kate... but honestly, she really comes across as being a tad unstable with her ugly rages (folks say it is worse off camera) and panic/anxiety. She has never admitted any wrong in any of her actions. She seems to think she is always right. Even now she plays the victim in this mess. Jon seems to be acting like a teenager -- but hopefully someone will come along and slap him out of his adolescent behavior. Kate, I fear, will not address this issue... and the kids will face her pattern of strange controlling behavior. That part bothers me.

 

 

Yup. My mom is exactly like this; has been my whole life and she is still like it. It's amazing how she'll act...I would totally believe that Kate is worse off-camera. I actually thought that behavior was normal until I got married and was away from my mom for a couple of years, and then when she flipped out one time, I realized that no one else acted like that and that it was actually abnormal. It's really sad, and yes, very damaging to the kids.

 

 

I don't think we can pass judgment on their faith or perceived lack of it.

I actually think we can. In the first place, the Bible says that Christians are to 'judge' one another.......but the main point, for me, is that they don't think they are doing anything wrong. It's one thing to say 'yes this is a sin and I am struggling with it and we're trying to do better'. It's a whole other ballgame to say 'woo, I'm having an affair and I'm so excited to get started on my new life; here's the divorce papers'......to be to the point where they are going to bring a married man's girlfriend on the show? And to be ok with that? No way. I will totally sit in judgment on that :tongue_smilie: Maybe this hiatus over the summer will cause them to have a change of heart. Who knows. But it is absolutely ok for christians to say 'this is God's standard. Not only are they not living up to it, but they are wallowing in and enjoying and profiting off their sin, and have no shame in doing so. That is in no way, shape or form, even close to resembling the type of lifestyle Christians are supposed to be striving for.'

[Joanne]

Well. I have not watched the show, read the blogs, or followed this. I am, however, a divorced Christian parent who has been involved in a documentary detailing my daily life.

 

I think the divorce rate of our country/culture is a tragedy. Not because of the *divorce rate* but because of the misery, anger, sin, depression, and quality of life altering months (or years) it represents. The "divorce rate" isn't the problem. The problem is long before the divorce; it's the failing marriages. Being anti-divorce misses the reality that families are typically shattered, hurting, vulnerable long before papers are filed. While I think the divorce rate is tragic, I don't agree with the pervasive assumption that a majority of those divorces are superficial. Just because divorce is common does not mean it is trivial, taken lightheartedly, done with haste.

 

It's complicated and cumbersome and difficult to determine why 1/2 of all Western marriages end in divorce. I have to ask, though, where is the concern, outrage, encouragement and care for the months (or years) leading to the declaration of divorce? Or the concern, outrage, encouragement and care of awful marriages that do not end in divorce?

 

I hear the fear, care, concern and more about the kids. In many cases, outsiders concern "For the kids" becomes a weapon with which other persons further assault already hurting people - kids included. Often, IMO and IME, if a marriage is at breaking point, the parents are choosing the best of awful options. It's not a *better* choice to stay over leave. Being in an awful marriage is not "good for the kids"; together is not automatically advantageous over separate. Every member of the family has been affected, hurting for some time. Whether separation and divorce is the best of sucky options at that point is situationally specific and no platitudes can serve at that point.

 

 

I feel very, very angry. Having faced what seemed like a marriage that was truly over twice, having made the decision to stick with my dh and make things work, having kept my commitment I made to him for better or for worse, having not given in to my own hurt feelings (or he, his) I feel such anger when I hear of divorce. And the children...I'd love to adopt them

 

UM? Adopt them? They have 2 living parents.

 

I used to be "divorce is not an option". I figuratively DIED living that mantra. I used to give advice (counseling, books, community support, acting as if you care/love/respect him until the feelings come, dates/sex/affection) all designed to keep marriages together "for the kids" at least.

 

So sad. TLC should have done all they could have done to help their marriage. Could it have been more obvious that they needed marital counseling. I think the show - the producers had an obligation to see them succeed.

 

Count me among the few (it seems) who think TLC has no obligation whatsoever to this family in terms of "help". TLC is a corporation designed for profit; they do what sells.

 

Relatedly, I have been involved in a documentary about discipline methods/childrearing. They filmed my family for 2 days. The end result had absolutely NO resemblance to reality.

 

"Reality Shows", even when you are watching the seeming mundane everydayness of a family's life, is a misnomer.

 

I don't think we can pass judgment on their faith or perceived lack of it. Just because someone is a believer doesn't mean they don't struggle. They are sinners just like all of us, and if we are going to questions their faith and sin, we need to remember that all sin in equal in God's eyes. Yes, I know, we don't see the fruit from them, but I have been through times when I am not especially fruitful. In fact, Iv'e been downright arrogant and stupid, albeit not on national television.

 

I have seen my Christian friends deal with abuse, infidelity and addiction in their marriages.. I don't know what goes on in my best friends' marriages when the doors are closed. I know by bringing in cameras they opened their lives up to scrutiny, but they still deserve some respect. They need prayer. They lack contentment and the peace Christ has promised them.

 

What a beautiful, spot on post. Thank you!

 

I've learned, the hard way, that you *can't* really know a marriage unless you are in it. You see glimpses. You might even be privy to intimate aspects of it. But marriages (or any close relationship) can look to outsiders very different than it truly is.

 

I am so tired of everyone judging them. We are all flawed & imperfect. I can guarantee you that I am no better than Jon or Kate. I do, however, possess something they do not have- privacy.

 

Yes. I am not writing this in support of Jon and Kate or their public choices for their family.

 

 

NARCISSISTIC Personality Disorder: The narcissist is described as turning inward for gratification rather than depending on others, and as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, and prestige.Narcissistic personality disorder is closely linked to self-centeredness. It is also colloquially referred to as "the god complex".

 

Dealing with an actual NPD'd person is an ongoing nightmare. I can't say if Kate is or isn't but I can say, from experience, that there is NO HOPE, NO ADVICE, NO PATH for being in successful intimate relationship with a NPD'd person.

 

We've come to realize that this show has been a curse to our family. Thank you for your time, America, but we're stopping production of this show, entering counseling, and are going to try to rebuild our lives. Please give us our privacy; by doing this you'll be helping us fix so much of the damage we've done to our relationship and our kids.

 

OP, I agree. I wish that had been the announcement as well.