joannqn Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 So if you have a young child is who far ahead in math, what do you do about geometry proofs? It seems, to me, that an elementary student wouldn't have the logic/critical thinking skills to tackle proofs. Would you go through geometry without the proofs and come back to it again later to cover the proofs when they are older? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) If I were in that situation, based on what I know, I'd have my dc do geometrical constructs first. In fact, we're going to do this anyway. One of the math gurus on the high school board suggested a really good one to me, but I can't seem to find the link, so I must have put it somewhere weird or something. Another thing I'd do is get some other kind of math in there where you don't need proofs, such as at the advanced high school page at the American Mathematical Society. If you email them, they'll tell you how much math is needed. One of the books where you don't need much high school math, but, they said to me, is designed for clever students, is Mathematical Circles. They have a book I'm planning to get for dd called Mathematical Ciphers. Plus more. Some you need some calculus for, such as the one about shoe laces, but the one for math in sports you don't need much. ETA, I searched some threads, and here's the constructions book I'm hoping to get http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=717611&netp_id=273439&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW&view=covers I'd forgotten it was Christian. Keys to Geometry is all constructions, but apparently is not a full Geometry course. What we're doing is other math to fill in the gap because neither of my dd's has/had the maturity for long problems young (not even at 11, and yours is younger.) I don't mean just busy work math, either, but stuff that really helps them learn to think mathematically and challenges them in other ways. Edited June 9, 2009 by Karin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I don't think there's a magic age when logic and critical thinking spring from nothing. I agree that some kids at some ages would not be ready for extensive work at higher levels yet, but math past arithmetic requires logic and critical thinking, whether it's as formal as proofs or not. I don't think you can be ready for geometry (or algebra even) "except the critical thinking"... algebra and geometry depend on critical thinking. If you were looking for something geometry-related and interesting to do with a child who was not ready for the critical thinking, then I agree with Karin about constructions. But also I'd work on problem solving, at whatever level of logic/ critical thinking they're capable of. I think generally that sort of skill or readiness builds over time, and it's worthwhile to have them practicing at whatever level they can, throughout all of their math education years. Then when you get to geometry, the proofs are just extensions of those problem solving skills you've been working with all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoggirl Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 He did Chalkdust Geometry which is pretty proof heavy. He had no problems whatsoever. He definitely "got it." He is 11. I say go ahead and try it and have something in mind to switch to if it doesn't work. I was really surprised at how well he did with the proofs - I NEVER got that stuff in high school. He would have a nine or ten step proof, and he would just sit there looking, looking, looking, and I was panicking thinking, "Oh no, he's not getting it." I would ask, "Do you need help?" and he would shush me. After awhile he would say, "Well, it is going to wind up being such-and-such" and then he would start his proof! My point is, we all approach things differently, and I had to learn that his just sitting was not just sitting but thinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetzi Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 (edited) We're following an Alg I, Alg II then Geometry schedule, but I'm not worried about ds hitting Geometry proofs in 5th or 6th grade. He is such a linear, anlytical thinker that I believe this will not be a challenge for him. Subjects that "follow the rules" (grammar, spelling, science) are not a problem for him as long as he knows the rules. The same probably goes for many 'math minded' people. ETA: We spent more than half the year working on problem solving, probability and other math topics so we didn't rush into algebra. There is plenty of math out there if you don't want to/aren't ready for geometry proofs. JMO, Edited June 10, 2009 by Spetzi another thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanM Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 We haven't gotten to geometry yet, but I'd go along with the "it depends on the child" idea. I have one ds who was thinking abstractly at age 5 and always got annoyed if I wanted him to use math manipulatives. My other ds had to have manipulatives at that age. I'm guessing the logic/proof business will be similar (but have not yet proved this). Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLG Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Chiming in to agree that you might be surprised if you try it. Our ds did geometry (Jacobs) at age 11 and there was a slight blip to get the reasoning links in the brain circuit going but after that he flew through the proofs! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joannqn Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 We're looking at geometry at age 10 (turning 11 in December) unless I postpone it...and that's with doing algebra twice. I'm thinking of doing MUS through algebra followed by Intro to Algebra by AoPS. I guess I could either do Advance Algebra first or do geometry over two years to push it back further, if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Systematic Mathematics has a great "geometric constructs" module. All about volumes, surface area, etc. of different forms, etc. It is called Shapes and Dimensions. Beyond that, something that may be interesting to him is Tessellations. You can also google it and get all sorts of neat stuff. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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