LOL yeah I discovered that fact a long time ago and life runs quite smoothly that way in our house! I do not assign my 9 y/o chores. But on an as-needed basis if I need her help with something, I call her in and say "hey can you go do this for me please" and she does it. Easy. If I say to my husband while I'm cleaning up "Hey, can you do me a favor and vacuum the stairs for me??" ...he does it. Easy. Works great for us!

It's been YEARS since we've had a landline! It seemed like such a waste of money, because we used our cell phones for almost everything, anyway! We use Verizon for our internet.

Without actually BEING in the situation where I HAVE to decide, so it's easy for me to say, take this for what it's worth, but: Yes. ETA: And yes, I'd tell my doctor. It might need to affect his decision making process in regard to how he treats me while I'm taking that drug, or he may need to know what side effects to look for and relate to that drug, etc. I'd consider that part of covering my own bases.

As a secular/not particularly religious Jew I don't really mind if people try to talk to me about their beliefs. I don't get mad when Jehovah's witnesses knock on my door like some people I know do. Although I do tell them that I'm not interested in having a religious conversation with them. I would hope that most people would be respectful if someone else said they would rather not discuss it, that they wouldn't keep trying to forcefeed people their beliefs. What I do have a problem with, is when they try to involve my children. Like last year we went to this "Family Fun Day"- it's an annual event here (non-religious) held on county fairgrounds. Different organizations can participate by setting up stands which would consist of fun activities for the kids, and then if they want they can leave brochures and stuff available for the parents to take as they move from activity to activity. Some of those organizations are religious, most aren't. So we stopped because my daughter saw a bean bag toss game that she wanted to try, as did her same-age friend who was walking around with us (they were 8) and we adults stood off to the side a bit chatting while they played. At one point I glanced over and saw that the man running the stand was standing very close to the girls talking quietly to them, and I wandered closer and heard him talking to them about God. For some reason, that really irked me. I called to my daughter and we moved away. I told her that that man should not have been talking to her about God or his religious beliefs, that that was her parent's place, not some strangers. In fact, it irked me so much that I found a contact email for the organizers of that event and emailed them about it. They never bothered answering though. :P

We have a Jewish background, but we're not very religious. We celebrate Passover and Hanukkah, more for cultural and historical reasons (and for fun) than out of any deep sense of being religious. We homeschool secularly, using the Oak Meadow curriculum.

Well, the thing about that is my mother pays half of the bills in that house- half their mortgage, half the phone and cable bills, even half of the water and electric, even though she's only one person compared to their 5. Truthfully, I don't think they'd ever be able to afford all their bills on their own if she weren't living there. They also have someone right there if they ever need to say "Hey can you keep an eye on the kids while we do this or that." Sometimes I do think they get too easily annoyed with her and aren't as nice to her as they could be. Of course, I know my mother CAN be kinda annoying about things, too. I wouldn't want to live with her lol. I agree that it's NOT particularly a healthy relationship and I have told her more than once that she'd probably be better off just getting an apartment on her own. But she says that she would feel bad if she left them in financial trouble. And she's admitted that now that she's getting older (she's in her 70's), she likes knowing that someone's there with her and that she's not living all alone. I think my brother and sister-in-law kind of resent that they need to depend on my mother and don't really love having someone else living with them, whose personality is different from their own... but it is what it is. They are all making choices and they all have to work it out, but sometimes I just get put in the middle and it can be a little hard.

I appreciate the responses, all! I did not say anything to my brother. I did send my mom an email and told her that I could understand why she was upset and that she should try not to take it too personally, that she knows my brother is pretty scatter brained to begin with and that I think it just didn't cross his mind at all to issue a separate invitation even though I was sure he wouldn't have minded if she had joined in with them. And to the person who said that she wasn't being very adult about it either and could have handled it differently, you're right. My family has always been pretty dysfunctional though lol. Anyway my mom seems to be in at least somewhat better spirits and after taking off to do some shopping with my SIL for our Fourth of July bbq, so am I :) I'm glad I didn't cause further drama by saying something to my brother spur of the moment, and that I just posted here first :D

I don't know, it's this whole awkward dynamic over there, really. When they first started living together, they used to share dinners. But my brother and sister-in-law got annoyed or something because they felt like they cooked and my mother didn't do as much of the cooking, and that she'd just show up downstairs like 5 minutes til dinner time but never really offered to help out with preparing the meal or setting the table or getting the kids meals together (although she did wash dishes), and it would get on their nerves, and somehow or other they ended up saying "let's just do meals separately." So my brother will usually just make dinner for his family unit, and my mother will usually just feed herself frozen meals at a different time because she can't be bothered to cook for herself (she never was much of a cook, I inherited that from her haha), and that's just sort of the way it goes over there. She for whatever reason will not ever invite herself to eat with them and won't just assume that she IS invited, unless he specifically says to her "do you want to eat with us tonight." Which he either didn't want to do or didn't think to do. She's really hurt that on this of all nights, when her granddaughter, whose airline ticket she paid for, just came out, she wasn't invited to share a family dinner with them all. She's upset by it and understandably so. I do have a pretty good relationship with my brother but I think if I say something to him he's just going to get annoyed (at my mother, not me) and take a "she's being so dramatic, she could have just come in" kind of attitude and it may put a further strain on the two of them, which wouldn't exactly help my mother, I guess. Ugh. I guess I just needed to vent because her calling me and then crying made me feel pretty helpless myself.

I agree with a lot of what you say! Go ahead and unschool- seems like it would be a perfect fit for your family, and there are plenty of "successful" happy unschoolers out there!

My mother just called me, and she's very upset. She lives with my brother and sister-in-law and nephews. She's got two rooms up on the third floor to herself, like a bedroom and sitting/computer room, and they share the kitchen and bathroom and household expenses. They tend to get on each other's nerves though, kind of have conflicting personalities, and don't really tend to share many meals or spend much time together down in the main living room or anything like that for whatever reason. So anyway my brother's oldest daughter from a previous marriage just flew out for the first time in quite a while, to spend part of the summer (she lives in NC, we live in PA, so we don't see her often). My mother paid for her airfare because my brother is struggling a bit financially. So they just got home this evening from the airport, and my mother was sitting downstairs so she could see my niece, and was hanging out with her and the other kids, and my brother went in the kitchen and made some spaghetti or something, and then called his kids in to eat. So my mother's still sitting there in the living room, and she hears my brother say to a neighborhood kid who had been hanging out with my nephews all day, "Are you hungry? There's enough here if you want to eat." But he didn't invite my mother to eat with them. So she went upstairs and called me all upset about it and was like "I just paid for his daughter to fly out here and he couldn't even say to me, 'Hey, Ma, you want to sit down and eat with us?' on her first night here!" And then she started crying and said "I have to get off this phone" and hung up. :( I feel bad for her. Should I even bother saying anything to him, like "Hey, you really should have invited her!" Or maybe "You should go talk to her, she's pretty upset." Or do I just stay out of it since what's done is done and saying something to him might just put him on the defensive and start more drama between the two of them? Which isn't all that unlikely. I don't even know what I can say if I were to email her or try to call her back that would make her feel better. I do think he's a little brain dead though and if she had just wandered in and said "Hey, mind if I grab a plate and sit with you guys tonight?" He would have said "sure, no problem, help yourself" but she'd have felt awkward doing that, and he just didn't think or didn't bother to extend an invitation to her. Blah.

Almost never.

^There is that! LOL

Heh. I had to look that up to see what you were talking about. We watch UFC over here, not Nascar! Well, for our 10th anniversary (which just passed like 2 weeks ago btw) we went to a dude ranch for five nights, with our two younger kids, and I was able to live with that, so, who knows, maybe your wife will like "Talladega on the infield." LOL. And while we were away, we had a patio installed- which I've been wanting for like the past three years. That was a good 10th anniversary for me! I definitely would have wanted the patio (or having my upstairs bathroom remodeled; hopefully that'll be next! :D) over an expensive ring. Or, cough, a tablesaw. :P But like we all said, you know your wife better than we do!

She won't ALWAYS need you there lol. Someday, when she's dating, grown, gone, you'll probably be really, really nostalgic for the days when she did. But trust me, she won't. She's only 10. She's not doing this to be hateful. She's not a robot you can just program to go, she's a young girl (with ADD no less) who you already acknowledged WANTS to please you, and feels bad when she doesn't (VERY bad apparently), but she has a hard time with this (which is normal based on all the "my daughter is the same way!" responses you got, and she's asking you for a really simple compromise. I know some people don't agree with me and feel like they have to just put their foot down at all costs but I'd rather have a mutual respect and a willingness to compromise than feel like I have to conquer or that if my kid doesn't learn X, Y or Z as a child she's doomed to being an incompetent adult. I just don't believe that's true. Some things will improve with age no matter what, and I think this is one of them. That's all I'll say on the subject because I'm not looking to end up in a debate or coming across as too know it all or anything like that! I just wanted to give you a different point of view. Good luck with everything either way! :) ETA: Just to throw it out there as another thought, some people allow their children to keep their own room in any shape they want to. If they want to live in a messy room, fine. It's their space. They can keep their doors shut. The two rules are no food garbage in the room (yuck) and there must be at least a clear path to the door for fire safety reasons.

So, again, I say: Why not just stay with her? Why not spend 5-10 minutes a day keeping her company and delegating a bit as needed while she does a quick, daily straightening that will prevent things from ever getting that out of control? That's really all it should take if made part of the daily routine. Why is that such a big deal? Why would a parent be willing to try yelling, lecturing, guilt-tripping, punishing, withholding, bribing, and everything BUT saying, "sure, I'll keep you company." It's a pretty minor request. It really is. Use the time to read her a book while she cleans. Or to chat about your day or your future plans or whatever. Help her a little bit even- work is always more pleasant when someone is helping you do it. I try to remember with my daughter that she helps me as needed, when I'm cleaning the kitchen, or living room or cleaning out the car or doing yardwork or whatever. She'll help me as asked/needed. So it shouldn't be a big deal for me to help her a little bit in her space, too. It seems like a simple solution to me, and preferable to the constant power struggle, stress, and certainly preferable to my child getting depressed etc. You said nothing else works... but she's told you what will work for her. Having you keep her company. Have you considered why you are so unwilling to compromise with her in that regard?

And that's a good point, too!

Personally- I don't find that ring very attractive either. I'd be disappointed to be expected to wear something I didn't like (or feel guilty if I didn't) and I'd want to throw up if/when I found out the price lol. I could think of so many things I'd rather do with that kind of money than get a piece of jewelry that didn't have as much sentimental value as the ring I actually exchanged my vows with, and which I didn't love. I mean LOVE. And I wouldn't even really LIKE that one, going by its looks. You know your wife's tastes better than we do! But before getting something so pricey and "unique" I'd probably want to involve her in the decision, rather than springing it on her as a surprise. I do think taking her somewhere nice and maybe renewing vows would be a lovely gesture, though.

I feel for you, a few years ago when my daughter was still in public school, she brought home lice. Ugh. We used the special shampoo on her and everyone in the house (except my son who was only a baby and seemed to be fine), washed all the sheets, pillow cases and blankets and whatnot, and tied all stuffed animals from her bed/room in a plastic garbage bag for a while (I forget how long), cleaned and sanitized all the hair brushes, repeated the lecture about how you never share hats, brushes, ponytails and so on. And then I slowly, painstakingly, went through her hair in very small sections picking out the little nits or whatever was in there one by one until I could not find any more on her head. And she had long hair! Fortunately it worked and we've never had a repeat case but it certainly wasn't any fun at the time!

Well, like someone else just said, not every subject is necessarily going to have to be taught from a religious viewpoint at all. If I had the choice, I'd join a group that was definitely secular or at least inclusive. But if I were in an area where my only choice was a Christian group, assuming I didn't find them exclusionary to begin with, I would join for reasons other than religious ones. Activities, socialization, and so on. I would then pick and choose which classes or activities I wanted to participate in. I would pick the ones that seemed like religion was going to play either no part, or at least a minimal part. So like I wouldn't sign up for the bible class. But I'm there for the museum trip and the science experiments and the arts and crafts. You know what I mean? If I wasn't sure about how a subject was going to be taught, I'd politely contact the person teaching it and ask them about it.

Those are great ideas! I'll definitely do the Fresh Air Fund one. I love the photo recipe book idea for my 9 y/o. And, Chris, I love the "Very Hungry Child" idea for my 4 y/o, that's so cute! milovany, I will check out that link, thanks! :)

Honestly? I think the easiest thing is that you go in there once a day, say in the morning when she's first getting up, and announce cheerfully that it's time to do a quick straightening up in her room. Then either help her, keep her company, or oversee her. If it's done on a daily basis like that, it probably wouldn't take more than five minutes. And if it can be done in five minutes once a day, it will never get overwhelming- for her or for you. And you won't have to do it "forever"- it just seems like it. Kinda like the stage where babies don't sleep through the night lol.

Four posts :D That's how we thaw frozen shrimp, too. We run cold water over it til it thaws. Doesn't take very long!

Well, I guess it depends. If the idea is to teach all religious based classes, then I guess so. Our group does both social stuff and some classes. The classes aren't religious in nature at all, they're just...like, I don't know. One might be a "tinkering" class where the kids take things apart and put them back together. One might be a "science experiment class" where you do all these different things with eggs. One might be a "short story workshop" where you talk about plot and setting and characters and so on. They aren't the kind of thing that's going to TEACH religion- they also aren't the kind of thing that's going to go against anyone else's religious beliefs.

Sure they have the right. But there's a difference between having the right to do something, and something being the right thing to do. Just my opinion! Also, serious question here, not meant to be inflammatory: From what I do know of Christianity and Jesus- (after living two years in a methodist foster home as a teen, and having an ex husband who is Catholic) I don't think Jesus would have turned the Jews away (for example). Right? I mean, seriously, can you picture him starting a group and saying "No Jews allowed?" Unfathomable! So why would his followers? If anything, you'd think they'd be glad to have "outside" members who they might rub off on so to speak lol. Again, I can see saying: "You don't have to be X religion to join but most of us are and so you should know that there may be religious leanings, prayer etc." or "You should know that our group is founded by X religion's leaders and so some of our classes may be religious in nature and you have to decide whether to attend; and/or you may not teach classes that are against our religious teachings if you were to teach a co-op class" or some such. And then just leave it up to the person if they still want to join. But just outright we won't welcome you if you don't believe the exact same way we believe? You can't join? Again, like I said: Yep, they have the right to say that. But having the right doesn't make doing it the right thing to do. Not that I'd want to be in a group with people who felt like that anyway.

Really? That's strange. I just clicked on the link myself and it showed up right away on my page. You could email her instead if you wanted, she has her email address there. Not sure why that would happen with the security word!