The above description of Abeka is intriguing...will have to check that out because I've sort of longed for something that was all-in-one vs. my eclectic approach that takes more time to prep. And now I'm worrying about the "jot and tittle"!!! :ohmy: Is that the problem--DD is not going to retain a bit of this FLL? Hmmm..... :huh: (following)

Using FLL 1 and WWE Year 1 with a 2nd grader...It's been great. I just didn't start it until this year and she could technically be in 1st grade, so we started with Level 1. There's a lot of overlap, so I don't have her do copywork out of one and then copywork out of the other. I combine them. I have a 4.5 yo doing gentle preschool and she actually really enjoys doing FLL 1 with us. Of course, she doesn't do the copywork, but chimes in when there are phrases to repeat, listens to the poems, etc. I take a light-hearted, conversational approach to it. It doesn't take long to complete (10 minutes/day?), and with 100 lessons at 2-3 lessons per week, you're done in a year (give or take / year-round or traditional 36-week schedule) without having to do it everyday and without a stressful pace. For WWE 1, I look at the examples SWB laid out for each week or series of weeks, and then adapt it to whatever chapter read-aloud we're currently doing. It was too fragmented to have my child narrate small passages in WWE from other books, so we use the current read-aloud we're on. Meaning, I don't want her to narrate The Wizard of Oz, for example, until we're actually reading it. It's too jumpy for my style to dive into complex books that she's never heard; not impossible--just not enjoyable. Each day, before we go on to the next read-aloud chapter in any given book, I ask my DD's to narrate the previous chapter. Obviously, the 2nd grader gives more detail and a more complete narration, but my preschooler chimes in and narrates here as well. I ask questions for comprehension aimed at both levels. I figure as long as we're hitting the following several times a week, we're good: (1) narration (of any books--read-alouds, SOTW, science, etc.), (2) copywork either from FLL or WWE, (3) basic grammar, either through FLL, WWE, or other writing projects we're working on. The most time-intensive part was at the beginning of WWE, writing out sentences on lined paper for my child to copy. I have a by-the-week file system set up for the year, so, when I could, I just looked ahead, wrote out the copywork sentences and filed them away for the upcoming weeks. I understand this would be a lot for the OP to do, as she is dealing with more children. I wonder if the copywork could be written out and copied for the 3rd/2nd/Ker to do (the most advanced student could copy 3-4 sentences, while the Ker could copy 1?) Maybe I'm making this harder...just remembered there is a workbook that goes along with WWE? (We don't use that.) Someone above mentioned there's not enough practice involved. I'm unsure. It seemed like DD was doing so well with punctuation, capitalization, etc. Then the last couple of weeks, I've noticed she forgets these when she's writing on her own. My assumption is that the repetition will need to happen for a few years to take hold (K-3 or 4th)? Or maybe a different curriculum would drive those things home in a better way? I don't know if it's a repetition thing or just a developmental thing for her. By the way, our strong point is not memorizing poetry, so all year we've just read the poems and skipped the memorization. I plan to take a break from FLL/WWE this summer and focus on poetry by itself, a la Bravewriter tea-time-style. I think it will make it more enjoyable for us, vs. the pressure and hassle of memorizing each week along with FLL. I plan to have my kids pick out their own favorite poems to memorize vs. the ones listed in FLL (they're good, but not all are favorites.) My hope is to make it fun with a super-casual "family talent show" once every few weeks to have them recite the poems aloud. We make these "talent" shows very silly and relaxed. ETA: Just realized it's not obvious--wanted to add that we do other LA stuff: longer writings/projects, spelling/ phonics, reading assessments...so I'm just using FLL/WWE for grammar and part of our writing.

I think the series below, in addition to your state standards (mine are available in printed form), are a place to start with expectations by grade. What you are saying about changing from a career to HS and wishing you were more of a natural, fun teacher for your kids really resonates with me. I want to be homeschooling and there are a lot of high points, but it is very, very hard. Much harder than any career/job I had elsewhere. I also like delineations in all things and find it helpful to have some sort of "guide" to at least have parameters or some idea of what would be expected at each age. I tend to over-expect things from my children because I worry about some of the things you listed (work ethic, etc.) and I'm not personally super-familiar with the various ages and stages of human development. It makes it hard to know if what I expect is reasonable, too little, or too much sometimes. Someone upthread mentioned the "What My X-Grader Needs to Know" series by E.D. Hirsch: http://http://www.amazon.com/What-Third-Grader-Needs-Revised/dp/0385336268/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1460490556&sr=1-1&keywords=what+my+3rd+grader+needs+to+know I use the books from the series each year and, while I think they're pretty good, a lot of the material just boils down to someone's opinion of what should be covered in any given grade. I think they're good for Language Arts and Math and I'll probably continue to use them each summer as some sort of guide. But beyond that--who's to say if your child should be learning about the Ancients or American History in any given grade? Should they learn about soundwaves in 2nd grade or 5th? I guess I use them as a general overview and to make sure we are not WAY off and missing the mark in some way. Many homeschoolers have recommended the checklist-type World Book lists. I love them and print them off each year. Again, I don't follow them meticulously, but I use them as an overview at the beginning, middle, and end of each grade to see if we're on an approximate course that's appropriate for the grade/age. Sometimes if I'm feeling really unsure about the course we're charting, I re-read them to see where we've progressed: http://www.worldbook.com/free-educational-resources/typical-course-of-study I don't want to get too locked in to other people's opinions and lists, but these resources help me feel like I'm not shooting in the dark.

I was going to recommend the same book. I thought it was a good one to read, even though our schedule might look quite a bit different than those described, if I recall correctly. Ultimately, I didn't think it was worth purchasing or re-reading (I borrowed it from the library), but it was valuable for getting a glimpse of how others do things and helping me to create our own schedule.

I don't know if this is getting too far off the original topic, but about RE, I just want to add that, in general, my opinion is that a lot of kids' religious materials, curricula, courses, and VBS packages seem really lame--Catholic and otherwise. I rarely find beautifully-created materials that speak to children without dumb-ing things down in cheesy or comic-bookish ways. I have a few books by illustrators like Tomie dePaola and authors like Sister Wendy Beckett that are truly thoughtful and inspiring, created for children but appealing to all ages. Maybe the lameness in a lot of materials is due to the nature of trying to address concepts to a wide range of ages, experience levels, cultures, etc. Personally, I just talk to my kids like real human beings about Jesus, God, faith, prayer, and all of the other questions they have... If I just went off of what was being taught and how it was conveyed--materials-wise, I could see where people would want to teach at home. It's not that the content is erroneous in doctrine or theology. It's just not glowing and beautiful. I imagine some parishes have such a small number of children--or many other extenuating circumstances that would make teaching RE at home appealing? Maybe even more so for homeschoolers, as they're used to taking up the reins? The RE class DD is in this year is probably way below her level of knowledge in terms of Scripture (not trying to brag; her teachers say she could teach the class.) I assume this is mostly because she has always asked a lot of questions about God/faith and we answer them and have read a lot of Bible stories and related things as a family for years. As converts, there's a lot of content I feel shaky on covering at home (formulaic prayers, culture/customs, Church history, the saints.) It's overwhelming, so I'm happy to have such support. Anyway, we plan to have DD continue in with RE at church because there is a real value in her going to the class, brushing up against other kids her age who are also learning about Catholicism, learning from other adults who are good role models in the faith (so it's not just Mom and Dad teaching), and having a "touchstone" with church midway through the week that is just for kids vs. solely relying on the Mass for this contact each week. There is a continuity of community being built and a happiness that I can see in her where she feels she belongs at our church. I hope that will grow. So, for those reasons, it seems like the RE process is very valuable where we currently are in life/community. A bit off-topic, but I'm getting a lot out of this thread; I wanted to share. [ETA: Oh, I missed 'heartlikealion''s post about her situation...that makes sense. So there are parishes where RE isn't an option or it's not practical for some families.]

How weird: I just realized that at my parents', I ring the doorbell. And at my in-laws, I walk in!

Just read your last post. We have experienced some social "fall-out" and flak because of our decision to become Catholic. We agonized a bit over it expected it... and it's totally worth it. I would not sacrifice any of the deepening of my relationship with God or the fullness of faith that I am experiencing for it. I know I'm in the right place and it makes every sacrifice worth it. I know DH would say the same. My BIL's entire family--including teens--converted this Easter and it was beautiful. After 40 years as a pastor's kid in a large protestant Christian community, they've for sure had some social pressure and there's been "talk" over it; they know it's right for them and they're loving it. Take heart and be courageous! God will meet you and will never leave you hanging--even if long-time friends or family do. On a practical note, we read a great book by Scott Hahn about his and his wife's (eventual) conversions: Home Sweet Rome. When I read that book, I knew we were not alone in this journey. Also, there have been some recent threads/posts by a "Jennifer132" in the Chat forum: Converting, family acceptance....experiences that have been helpful for me to read.

I thought about replying the other day and now I'm back...to state some of what's already been said by previous posters: You can check with you parish priest about all of your concerns regarding marriage, sacraments, and your children's religious education. If you don't connect with the first priest you talk to or can't/don't get the complete answers you're looking for, don't get discouraged or give up. Being human, they all have different personalities, faults, and levels of experience or understanding of dogma/theology. Keep asking and figuring things out until you find your way. You need answers for your unique situation and your family's needs--some of those things might be on a case-by-case basis. IMO, go directly to the source instead vs. relying on what others say (which is usually partially true or not complete, based on people's limited understanding of their own experiences.) Many priests complete several years of seminary so they're going to generally have a deeper understanding of Scripture and the Church's teachings than most laypeople, even though people generally have good intentions and are trying to help. If you are prone to researching and reading for yourself, go to the source of Church teaching and get a copy of the Catechism if you don't have it. It is more clearly-written and easily-understood than I would have guessed. If you are not able to spend the time or energy, find a priest you can rely on to short-cut the process somewhat. That and the Bible can be "lanterns" for your feet! I also wanted to add a different perspective from a PP. We converted to Catholicism last Easter, after a long process of discernment, praying, reading, seeking, and learning practically through RCIA. (We were long-time Christians already.) You can bet we are a bit lost in teaching our children the intricacies of the faith, especially the Mass. It's somewhat unnerving for us, as we had always tried to be proactive in teaching our children our faith...so to go from that to trying to figure everything out as adults for ourselves...and then to turn around and find a way to teach our children (it's hard to teach something you don't know well yourself.) Anyway, our experience with Religious Ed has been great! Awesome, committed, loving teachers who have already taught their own children. It's a drop-off situation and I have no qualms about it. We knew of my DD's teacher and her family before becoming Catholic and she's trustworthy, knowledgeable, and a great teacher. If we were totally disinterested or negligent parents, our kids would still be receiving a good start in understanding the faith. So, depending on your parish, it's not necessarily so that you're going to have to be teaching them alone or "saddled" with an overwhelming course of study for your kids. (Of course, parents are their children's #1 teachers; that's obvious. Just saying you wouldn't necessarily be isolated in it.) There is a lot of info sent home IF we want to explore further, but we are already learning and studying Scripture, our own children's books on the Mass, and prayer as a family, so I only add in things that are sent home if we're missing something or find it fascinating. ETA: It's my understanding that, in my parish, some parents teach religious ed at home if they prefer that to classes at church for their children. I assume they have to show that they are actually progressing through the course of study. [My tone--which you might not "hear" in my writing--is one of love and encouragement! You can do this and I hope you and your family really enjoy the process of deepening your life with the Lord!]

DH does not work "shift" per se, but has a very odd/constantly-changing-throughout-the-year work schedule. Much of it is based on weather, nature, and daylight / dark hours. In some ways he is on-call, depending on what comes up. His work can be extremely early, late/after bedtime, during dinner, long days, short days, overnight travel, travel where I can't reach him (no cell service or electricity), etc. My expectations of building my schedule around his basically drove me nuts for a few years. I've now made peace with it. Here are some things that help us: - DH and I sit down each weekend with our calendars and go over what he *thinks* his schedule will be for the coming week. All of it is subject to change, but even a guess, an estimation or knowing about solid times / dates (meetings and such) is helpful. Everything is in pencil and I now forge ahead with my/kids schedule vs. trying to build activities around his. I put his schedule at the bottom of each day on my schedule so I can see how it will affect the rest of us. I ask for any upcoming solid dates on the calendar he is aware of--no matter how many months in advance--and put those in. - I started re-framing my expectations. I choose to go ahead with my own plans and am happy when he can pitch in or help out in an unexpected way. I take advantage of those unexpected opportunities when they're there (ex., he can unexpectedly take the kids for a day, giving me free time, even though I had something different planned), because who knows when they will come around again? It could be weeks. - DH used to underestimate the amount of time or energy required for work / tasks / meetings / out-of-town travel. I used to get so angry when he did not "deliver" on what he promised schedule/time-wise because I was desperate for him to rescue me. (Our kids' increasing ages have helped; the newborn stage with babies was very difficult.) I began to re-frame his estimates with him and stopped trying to hold him accountable for things that were out of his control that would explode his estimates. Over a period of years I consistently asked him to overestimate and under-promise and to set better boundaries with people and time. His time management skills have increased and my grace has increased. He's learned to set better boundaries with his boss and others. I've learned to focus on all the ways he does contribute outside of work, which is a lot when he can. Like a PP said, I know this is not true for all marriages. - I try to take advantage of opportunities to do school and keep a pretty consistent school schedule year-round so that when we can get away with DH or he offers to take the kids during normal school time, we're not stressed and trying to play catch-up with school afterwards. Working hard when it's possible allows us the freedom to take advantage of opportunities when they come up vs. being behind the 8-ball. - We try to do the same with housework. Our house is by no means perfect, but I try to keep up on laundry, dishes, chores, cleaning, etc. on a daily basis so we don't have to use family time to do that. It doesn't always work out this way, but gives us more freedom when we can be together. If I can't get to everything, I don't stress. - I shifted my rigid expectations of things like having dinner every night together as a family to...what if we can all have breakfast together instead? Isn't that time just as valuable for connecting? When Dad's gone at dinnertime, we light a candle and put it at his place and pray for his safe return. Those symbolic shifts help us instead of negatively focusing on "missing Dad" when he's gone. I try to stay positive because I see how it affects my kids. OP said: "The positive is that if my kids were in school they would only see dad 2 mornings a week pretty much... Which would break my heart... We have basically had that kind of schedule before and it was so sad." - I try to remind myself of how much less my kids and DH would have together if we had to adhere to someone else's rigid schedule. - I've had enough of a taste of what it would be like to be a single parent. I marvel at single parents, respect them so much more than I did before having kids, try to be aware of how I might pitch in to help others that do not have the sort of husband/dad we have, and pray for them. When I get really down about not having help or when he's gone, I try to remember that we have a really present, helpful, engaged husband/dad when we do have him. - For a few years, we paid for 1-3 days per month for a trusted daycare option so I could have a full day here and there to get some solitude, get a haircut in peace, exercise alone, or just take a breather. Those few days a month equaled sanity sometimes. Now I'm trying to trade a day or half-day with a friend/her kiddos. Sometimes I think the hardest thing about shift work/weird schedules might be never having any "protected" time you can count on to re-charge. It helps mentally to know there is a day in the future where I can "park" ideas/needs. - I challenge myself (mostly imperfectly; I am selfish) to ask DH how I can help him with his load. Usually there is nothing I can do to change his work or pace, but it re-frames it from "How can you help me?" (being served) to "How can I help you?" (servant-minded.) [Mark 10:45, Matt 20:28 for anyone so inclined] This got long. Hope it helps.

This might seem a bit out of left field, OP, but bear with me a bit-- I do have a point/suggestion! I totally recognize myself and my eldest DD in your post: my introversion, her extroversion, her "lawyering" way of looking at things (I often think she might be gifted in the future at such endeavors), her need to talk over a million things, her tendency to push buttons verbally...much of it being genuine curiosity on her part that I don't want to stifle...some of it being a creative way to dawdle and not get around to hard work that she's dreading... feeling guilty over my need for silence and sometimes shutting down conversations because I just can't tolerate any more verbal exchange from anyone, etc., etc. Wondering if I'm crazy trying to homeschool because of my high need for silence and autonomy each day. Like you wrote, I am so very thankful for my family and the opportunity to homeschool AND I am also very, very drained sometimes by all of this interaction. I think that has been the hardest part of parenting for me. Before kids, even when I worked in people-oriented positions, I had time after 5pm each day to unwind, decompress, and be silent. There were weekends off. Vacation time. Holidays. This mothering gig is 24/7! Ditto on DH's weird work schedule...No extended family support. I end up being the one-and-only around here often and the days can get very long, even though my children are--like yours--lovely, generally obedient and good-natured, wonderful people. All this to say, you are posting about verbal interactions and obedience, which is good and right-- I mean, it sounds like you are getting useful feedback here and need to tighten some boundaries for yourself (expectations of how much talking happens with kids) and your child (over-using the verbal banter to control?). I wanted to add: How are you practicing self-care? Do you have some boundary-protected quiet time for all people in the house each day--even if only a half-hour or hour? Time where you can truly decompress from the human interaction and reset your energy for the remainder of the day? Do you ever have time when your spouse/friends/relatives can care for your children or just be in charge so you can have some time "off"? Can you set aside any time to walk or exercise just to clear your head and be alone? I recently found a sport in which I can exercise, be around others, but mainly keep to myself and be silent (swimming--under water). The exercise helps maintain mood and the opportunity to close off to the rest of the world for awhile is energizing. I did read you have a very little one, so I'm not sure these suggestions are helpful right now. All this to say, you are asking about discipline/verbal stuff, but: When I take care of my own needs for exercise, silence, self-care, some protected quiet time each day I am much more balanced and steady in dealing with the types of verbal interactions you described. Then I find I am helping and teaching my children lovingly vs. battling against them and walling them off emotionally.

I second the opinion that fairfarmhand's advice is good. We have 2 Dexters now and they are smaller, though not necessarily tamer or easier to handle, as they came from a large herd/ranch and were not handled. My sisters and I raised 30-50 head of Angus together on our small(er) place during our 4-H and FFA years and, I think, though a bit larger as a breed, they were easier to handle because we had better facilities and worked with them more than I do now with these. For the 2 we have now, my main concern is not wanting to buy feed, as the cost of hay has gone through the roof, as one poster mentioned up-thread. I'm not looking for an expensive hobby here--just a way to keep grass and fire danger down (hot summers.) Good fencing is a must. If you don't start with good 5-strand, tight fencing, you are just inviting repeated headache and drama. There is some skill to learn with fencing, but it can be hired out if you're not able or interested and if you can afford the labor. Like with any living creature, you have to check water daily, even if you have an automatic waterer, as they can leak or pipes can fail/break. But if you're leaving town for 2 weeks, it's easy enough to have a neighbor come and check daily. Someone with very limited animal experience can check water and throw a flake of hay over the fence. A responsible 4-Her wanting to make some extra money could be a boon. If the animals get out, that's a whole different story, obviously. The other concern I have is the cost to start-up. Even with our current 2 head, today's prices--even if you obtained cattle from an auction yard at the cheapest prices--are substantial. Animals can/do get sick; vets are highly-specialized professionals so treating them can be costly. It's a big investment if it doesn't work out. Like all investments, it's a risk, and a living, breathing risk. A trailer to transport, gates, etc.... If all goes well, in our area, we can probably make some profit in selling grass-fed beef while indulging my DH's interests in hobby farming and keeping the fire danger down. We eat mostly wild game and vegetarian, so I've not much interest in the beef, but it's nice to know where your food comes from and what goes into it. In the 25 years my family raised beef cattle, we broke even most years and made some profit overall; it was never our bread-and-butter. We siblings paid for quite a bit of college through it. There can be some tax write-offs. It's good experience in terms of children learning responsibility and realizing some profit, especially as there are so few work opportunities for kids/young teens. (I can see OP's children are mostly older, but thoughts for someone else reading?) The daily management is low, but substantial start-up cost and you hope it all works out to pay for itself and a maybe bit more--

Haven't read all responses, but just wanted to chime in and second the ideas of visiting Patrick's Point and Trinidad. Nice camping at Patrick's Point and a beautiful harbor/pier at Trinidad. Two spots not to be missed!

I did talk to a water expert (tester) who said that some arsenic in water is actually normal. I don't know if that is true or not. Obviously, too much arsenic is not a good thing. I don't know anything about what would be considered a safe level. When I looked into it, I found quite a bit of info online (EPA, .gov sites, etc.)

There's been talk of this in my area too due to the drought and what's happening with water levels/movement below the surface in relation to abandoned mines. Many wells went dry last summer and there has been concern over what might be in the water when it's at that low point (more turbidity and contaminants the lower you go in the well.) Does anyone have experience with the Big Berkey water filters? I've thought about getting one, as we don't have any sort of filter on our well, but I'm a bit skeptical: http://www.bigberkeywaterfilters.com/ They sell arsenic removal filters.

I voted "Love it!" and I do--certain aspects anyway. But I do want to add that it (tent camping), with kids especially, is a LOT of work. Lots of packing, lots of work while camping, and lots of clean-up when we get home. Maybe it will become easier as our kids get older. I really enjoy camping, but I've re-framed my expectations...I don't really view it as a "vacation" anymore and sometimes all of the energy required keeps us from doing it more often. Wanted to add that I'm really looking forward to backpacking again at some point. More specific gear required, but in some ways there is less to prep and it's simpler. Also, camping = getting to prettier places than is generally possible with hotels.

Probably too nosy, but may I ask in which state you reside? I would love library systems like that!

Some close family friends have planned a memorial (in lieu of a funeral) for that Saturday. I know you're talking about a party and Good Friday; maybe it's similar? They do not practice any particular faith, so I get it. I didn't when I was growing up either. The timing of this memorial is going to make our family's life extremely chaotic for a few days--at a time that I would wish for some peace, focus, and time to attend church--and, selfishly, I really wish they had picked a different weekend. We can't and won't miss the memorial because their loved one was monumental in our lives and we want to be there for them. It is important. The family has been waiting a year to plan this memorial, due to several complicated health reasons. But because of Easter and faith-related commitments to other family members that were made several months ago, we'll be traveling between 3 towns, each 3 hours apart, in 2 days. Late nights, meaningful connections...Our kids are younger, so it's a lot. These Easter-related commitments are only going to happen once in the lives of 5 of our family members and we are part of this central event happening (i.e, we cannot not be there), so it's not like we can just push it off until next year. To put it in perspective, Holy Week is equally important, if not possibly more important, than Christmas to many Christians. Not really saying anything controversial here--people are obviously free to plan anything at any time. Hope it adds some perspective--

At what age (approximately) would you stop scribing for children? I've been asking myself if age 7 / second grade is too "old" to continue scribing for, as she is capable of sounding words out, forming the letters properly, forming clear sentences, etc. It does seem though, as mentioned above, that DD tends to write what is easy for her, vs. the very creative, descriptive, "rich" ideas that I know are in her head (she has always been very verbal and adept at creating stories.) It seems like her stories were more interesting, longer, and more detailed when I was scribing for her in kinder.

I forgot about this post/thread for several days...Came back today to find it. Your response makes sense: no need to be polarized about the approach; a balance of approaches seems right. And the description of art with "more perspective" is a good analogy...I recognize myself in that (oops!) in terms of teaching writing. Good to hear about Bravewriter again. Starting to wonder if that might be a better option for us. I'm going to get a copy of TMWWLE as well. Thank you!

Thank you! I have ordered some of these and placed requests for some through my library. And I agree--Simplicity Parenting was a great book...pulled it off the shelf to read through it again.

Thank you so much for these recommendations. Still listening...

What are your favorite parenting books for ages 7-12? I think I've read enough parenting books in the last several years to satisfy a whole second college degree! But they have all focused on birth, babyhood, toddlers, the first 5-7 years. It seems like, as our eldest turned 7 this past year, we're embarking on a new period of parenting here and I'm a bit adrift. It helps me to read many perspectives, gleaning a bit from each and the developing my own course. Any recommendations? Thanks!

Barb_: thank you so much! ETA: Some of the ways you put things and taking a test for children confirmed INTJ. And, yes, I can see that we are born one way (nature) and then learn many things along the way to adulthood to become better or more balanced in various skills/areas of life. Thanks!

Any thoughts on this from those of you who know and love personality typing? I've taken the Myers-Briggs several times. I think I'm INTJ but score so closely that I could also be INFP...or maybe INTP or maybe INFJ...(LOL) Never been able to figure it out. I've come up "square-" or "star-" shaped on other personality and career tests as well (as in, close/tied scoring in certain areas.) Reading Mystie's post, things from INTJ, INTP, INFJ, INFP all sound so close-- I'm sure about the "INxx" but how would one go about figuring out the other 2 parts? Thanks!

Anyone used/seen Just Write by Elsie S. Wilmerding? http://www.amazon.com/Just-Write-Book-Creativity-Writing/dp/0838826253/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1456005769&sr=1-1&keywords=just+write We've been using it this year. It's OK. Wondering if the Best Writing Lessons Ever might be a better option? Dealing with the same as OP and not sure if... - my DD7 just needs more time and should continue using WWE/copywork/narration? Original content can be like pulling teeth sometimes. - I should have been scribing more than forcing her to write on her own? She used to be really creative and tell very long stories when it was all verbal. Now I think she purposefully doesn't put much effort in or makes them short so she doesn't have to physically write much. - maybe writing will become more enjoyable as she ages? DD is very creative and loves to read (reading has exploded over the last year to a 4th-grade-ish level.) I have a hunch that eventually she'll come to love writing. Right now she says it's the worst subject. It seems like there are (at least) 2 camps on writing: (1) Have them copy high-quality content from classics and narrate during the primary years; wait to require original content or (2) Teach original-content from the start and require a lot of it; it will get better with more practice... Leaning towards the first end of the spectrum. Not to hijack a thread; any advice (especially from people who've made it to the other side of enjoyable writing) would be so appreciated.