Thanks for responding, SJ! We've been moving in that direction of studies that are requiring more organization. I'm debating about when to do it over the summer or during the school year when he could be applying what he learns in real time. You've given me more to think about.

At least in business (my experience) and in tech (my husband - has 200 people working for him at one of the top places to work in Fortune 500), there is definitely a preference for certain schools in recruiting. It's about getting your foot in the door. It's not impossible coming from a lower ranked school) it is harder if you are, targeting certain employers out there.

You know that guaranteed admission number for UC has changed over time. It used to be top 12.5% back in 2012.

SJ, Would you be willing to give a review of what you thought of the course? I was considering it for my son as a possibility at some point. Was it worth the money? I'm just wondering how much more would this offer than say using Seton's free online one and/or Great Courses: How to Be a Superstar Student.

Did you look at the course syllabus? They do differ a little bit to what is covered. Looks like it is mostly specific to using the particular platform that WTMA uses. You can look at them side by side. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QteX2UbDu3GjfFD66eOKo_pN8kqiBWLuoTgqfxQ-uDw/edit https://docs.google.com/document/d/13j_EH9Qmvsz7Xh4sZclENYxWS7_KUxnygZRhmx0xCI4/edit

Just a suggestion..you could consider doing Jousting Armadillos as a pre-algebra in that timeline. It shouldn't take very long at all, and it still incorporates discovery method at a lower intensity and much less dense. The book isn't very thick either. It's 6 chapters with 4 to 7 lessons per chapter. There are chapter tests, but since you homeschool an AL, you have a pretty good sense of what she has or hasn't mastered without using tests. Of course, if she loves JA, you could finish it out with the two remaining books in the series to complete algebra or move right into AOPS. Jacobs Algebra is also another good choice for discovery method for younger learners. Just thinking out loud about alternate paths to your end goal. ETA: I think my son likes Linus' humor in JA. It's written conversationally.

The moderator of Facebook group: CA Homeschool College Seekers (Laura Smith Kazan) gave me permission to share the following: She wrote this post about the closures. Scroll down to see the email response she received from the UCOP. OK here we go with UC A-G changes. The info to the charters for this went out last week. They already know this info and it is up to each charter how they will react. Call your high school guidance counselor. UCOP = UC office of the president. I was just given a copy of the UC letter sent out to course creators from the UCOP and had a long talk with one of those course creators. This is the info. 1. If the charter school ALREADY has that vendor course on their A-G list they will keep it for the 2018-2019 academic year but they cannot add it. 2. Vendors will only be allowed to offer courses if they fulfill ALL 7 of the A-G requirements. This means trouble for vendors like AOPS (Art of Problem Solving), however, they have a year to figure this out with the UCOP. It will be up to that vendor to see if the UC will allow them to offer classes. Places like CTY (Center for Talented Youth) will have a higher possibility of figuring it out - they already have more to offer. More on G3 in a sec. 3. The teacher of record must belong to the charter and be the teacher and grader of that course, NOT the course vendor. UPDATE: Outside vendors that give grades must be from diploma granting online schools. 4. The vendor must be able to provide a transcript. This means a teacher must give the grade and the charter cannot approve a parent created grade. What does this mean? Could this mean that the student could do dual enrollment with a vendor rather than enroll in a school, we don't know yet. Going to say this again. Remember, they have a year to figure this out. It will also depend on how your charter wants to handle it. 5. What about G3! Everyone loves G3s little classes. There are many possibilities but we don't know if they will fly. Can they be put into project based course? Can they used in place of content in a flexible textbook based course? We don't know yet. We also don't know how each charter will handle it. What kinds of courses do they offer at this time? Do they even have flexible courses? Places like G3 makes a lot of their money off of charter schools. My guess is that they are working on this and they have a year to figure this out. 6. How many high schools (not just charters) do YOU think are bombarding the UCOP about these changes. Many use online courses...The UCOP has asked that questions be directed to vendors. 7. Why is UC Scout (produced from the University of CA) being excluded? They are being excluded from #3. UPDATED Did I mention that charter schools have a year to figure this and if the course is ALREADY on the course list you are good for a year. Let's not panic and let the vendors figure this out. They want to be on that course list because they make money off of it. UCOP email: I wrote directly to the UCOP when I learned of the changes and they answered me tonight. This is the email in its entirety. Dear Ms. Kazan, We are not able to explain exactly what each of the online course publishers are specifically doing or not doing that does or does not align with UC faculty policy, we can give you a general idea of why the online course publishers’ “a-g†reference lists have been closed. In alignment with UC faculty policy, online course publishers who maintain “a-g†reference lists with UC: develop their own curriculum/courses curriculum and courses cannot be adopted/resold/relicensed from other institutions *Some online course publishers were offering courses which were not their courses. sell or license their online courses for delivery by a teacher or administrator within the local high school or district it is expected that the teacher of the course is not employed by the content developer/online course publisher all online courses must provide opportunities for substantial interactions between students and the teacher, and between students and other students. *Some online course publishers were either teaching their own courses/providing teachers for their courses or offering courses which did not require students to interact with teachers at their own local high school. do not issue credit toward a diploma to students who complete courses credit is issued instead by the student's home high school because the course was taught by the teacher(s) employed at that school *Some online course publishers were issuing credit themselves. In general, most, if not all, of the online course publishers whose lists were closed were acting as schools even though they are not “diploma-granting, regionally accredited (by one of the six agencies recognized by UC) high schools.†Our faculty does make specific policies regarding the limits of an online course publisher which maintains an “a-g†list with UC, and while they can be great resources to schools, they can never replace schools, nor teachers. Schools are welcome to purchase/license curriculum from online course publishers, but the schools must provide one of their own teachers who is teaching the course, not simply monitoring the students while they take online courses, potentially being taught by someone employed by the content developer/online course publisher. Students who directly enrolled in courses offered by online course publishers have never earned “a-g†credit for completing those courses. There is a note on every online course publisher’s “a-g†reference list which states: “These courses are “a-g†approved for schools and districts to adopt onto their “a-g†approved courses lists and to teach at their local school sites. These courses are not "a-g" approved for individual students to directly enroll in or to complete through this online publisher. For more information regarding courses provided by online publishers, please visit the UC A-G Guide webpage for online publishers, and/or contact the online publisher directly.†At no time have students ever been able to complete an online course publisher (or program) course if they wanted to earn “a-g†credit. If your school is looking for ways to offer more courses to your students who want to earn “a-g†credit for those courses and you are not able to provide a teacher for those courses, we would encourage you to check out our data base of other schools (both online and classroom-based) as well as the extensive network of California community colleges, as many of their courses can be used to satisfy “a-g†requirements at little to no cost to students. We unfortunately do hear that some schools and districts will not teach courses unless they are “a-g†approved by UC. This stems from the biggest misconception of the “a-g†process which is that UC is somehow acting as the auditor for all high school curriculum. Not only is this untrue, it is dangerous as it may limit course opportunities for students. We encourage schools to offer the courses which they believe are valuable for their students, regardless of “a-g†course approval, especially because we are limited in which subject areas and disciplines we can approve, and we encourage students to take advantage of every learning opportunity afforded to them, regardless of “a-g†course eligibility. The “a-g†process represents the minimum academic course work required for potential success at a UC, not the final total of course work. And if students have completed courses valuable to their development, and/or which have inspired them, they can include that work as part of their application information. We did also already email directly the course list managers of those schools who had adopted courses from online course publishers whose lists have been closed.

You could use the Jousting Armadillos series. My son is using JA and seems to enjoy it. It's a lot less dense yet still discovery method. Maybe consider Jacob's Mathematics: A Human Endeavor? We are also enjoying using Glenn Ellison's Hard Math books as well.

My point is more that UC is huge. It's like a giant gorilla. We are like tiny ants. They pretty much have enormous power to enact policies that have widespread impact.

Critical Thinking Company has some. If you look around on amazon, there are books. Just search for math puzzles or math brain teasers. If you go online, you can find ken ken, strimko, skyscraper, etc puzzles for free all over the place online.

If you click through on the provider, it lists which courses are approved through which year. There's a pretty good summary of what is going on in this FB group which is dedicated to Homeschoolers in CA: https://www.facebook.com/groups/CollegeSeekers/ I'm not going to copy their info over here. Apparently they have a copy of the letter that went out to these providers and spoke with one of those providers at length about what is going on.

I saw a map once of the US that showed the who was the largest employer by state. In CA, guess who that was....University of California. Edited to add: I found it. 190K employees for 238K students. https://www.thrillist.com/news/nation/biggest-employers-us-every-state-map

Having led a collaborative non-competitive math circle that had students working together on problem solving, I found that it was common with students 8 and under. It was just a maturity issue. It was never about ability. I'm sorry I don't have any ideas for you. Usually I asked the parent to bring their child back the following year. EDITED TO ADD: I just remembered that Peaceable Kingdom makes collaborative games. Perhaps that might be a good tool to help her practice working collaboratively?

Quark, I totally hear you. I'm in the same boat with my family because I chose to opt out of my career (CPA/consulting practice) and the system (gasp!) to homeschool. Yes, I agree that it's everywhere in the Bay Area as well. That's why we won't relocate back even though we can, and our families are there. Our life is happy outside that bubble though I fully realize we are still in one of those bubbles here.

I'm sorry to have to share this news with you all, but there are a lot of online vendors that are no longer a-g. AOPS, Online G3, CTY, and many others that are very popular online providers here. https://hs-articulation.ucop.edu/agcourselist#/list/search/institution?q=&f=institutionTypeName%7COnline%20Publisher Edited: Go to post #18 for UC response to inquiry about this.

I have a friend who graduated a couple of years after I did from Cal. He was a Gunn graduate from Palo Alto. This was more than two decades ago. He came to Cal absolutely convinced that he was "dumb" because he ONLY got into Cal. That's what Palo Alto is like. It's hasn't changed at all. The environment is toxic for the mental health and well-being of these kids. If you live in the Bay Area, you know exactly which high schools I am talking about because these are the schools that these Asian families sacrifice everything to buy a house in that district and attend. These schools often have anywhere from 40% to 90% of the student population as Asian. I am not trying to perpetuate any stereotypes, but the reality is that this culture has an outsized influence from the educational baggage that many first generation East Asian/Asian Indian immigrants bring from their countries of origin. The level of pressure in these countries is unreal because unlike the US that offers many paths at any point to enter higher education, these countries have systems that are up or out. If you don't make it through...you will never make it through. In those countries, the stakes are tremendously high because your family's future is tied to yours. When people come here, they can't just turn that off. It is how people talk about it. It's how the family culture is. Within the Asian cultures, the vast majority of us grow up with the understanding that my accomplishments are a direct reflection on my family. As a child, you grow up with this sense that love is conditional. That only if I achieve this, then my parents will truly love and accept me. The idea that an A- is the Asian "F" is no joke. It's a real thing. You live with always being compared to so-and-so's daughter or son did X, why can't you do X. This is completely real, and it isn't occasional, it's all the time. It I will be perfectly honest that to this day, my father is still disappointed that I did not make it off the wait list for Harvard because he wanted me to go to an Ivy. Cal was in his view second best to HPY. This is literally decades later, and I know it's the case because I try to guard and shield against that because I know he has his hopes set on my son now.

Just for those who are unaware, TAG agreements do not apply for the top 3 UCs. (UCB, UCLA, UCSD). Admissions as junior transfer are application only for those UCs.

I did read another interview about Yale admissions (not UC, but still useful), the director said that they could get rid of their entire freshman class and fill it with the rejected applicants and have the exact same quality of class. I thought it was too bad not enough people realize that this is really what it is like.

It's a pretty incremental program. You can compact and double up on lessons. That's what we did. However, there is a method and purpose to this. I did wonder the same thing, but I couldn't see it until we had gotten to the end of WWE 1. That being said, I am really pleased at where we got to by the end of WWE2.

If you google Edhesive and well trained minds, the threads will come up in the search. Search function on here is not very accurate. There are a number of members who have used the Edhesive ones.

What Calming Tea is referring to is very real. This isn't a world that many on here can possibily fathom. This is the bubble that I lived in being a life long Bay Area native. Though some would say, given the specific zip code I moved to in SD, I'm still in a similar bubble though not to the intense level of which much of the Bay Area is in. Most of my family is in that bubble and most of my good friends, THIS is exactly why I homeschool. Life in the Bay Area like living in a place of mutally assured insanity for children. It is sick and is harmful. Yes, it is very much an arms race. Yet, it is absolutely the norm for priviliged middle class life in these desirable school districts in the Bay Area. I don't know what the solution is to stop this. It is immensely difficult to chose to go outside of this. Even if I had stayed in the Bay Area, I had already made the decision to homeschool. We didn't want this for our son. We wanted more than this rat race mentality.

Exactly. I totally agree. I read another article that put it this way if a reader looks at your application, you don't want them to think: Another piano playing, hard working student with perfect SATS? We can't have a campus full of these students.

I know people that read for admissions for Cal. While URM can't be used as a reason for admit under the law, they will use other correlated criteria to work towards certain goals. Perhaps, this will help explain more. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/education/edlife/lifting-the-veil-on-the-holistic-process-at-the-university-of-california-berkeley.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=DDF81F4531AC152BDD0E0D5E080E96E5&gwt=pay

What I mean by Asian penalty is not what you probably think. This subject is beaten to death in my AA circles. There is no cap on admits like at the privates at UC, but there is a real disadvantage when you are looking at ACT/SAT scores meaning that as an AA applicant. The average Asian admit is still going to have to have a higher ACT/SAT than other ethnic groups plus under holistic model of admittance, you have to do something to really set yourself apart from what every other AA student is doing. The reality is that the average ACT/SAT score for the pool of AA applicants is always going to higher than in other ethnic groups. The reality is that there are many more qualified AA students applying to college even though they are a fraction of the population. For example, AAs are 5.6% of the US population, and they comprise of 60% of the National Merit Scholars. There are about 15K National Merit Scholars annually. There was an interview with a UC admission officer who admitted that if it was strictly by scores and not holistic admissions, that the UCB admit class would be something like 70+ percent Asian American versus the current 42%. There is no way that would ever happen. People are okay with that limitation. (edited to add: I am not making an argument one way or another.) That's why as an AA, you have to have your eyes wide open about admissions and know how to read those student profiles and how to benchmark your student against them. I roughly use the rule of thumb that if you aren't at least at the 75%ile for that school, then you should accept that it is likely a reach school for you. In al honesty, if all you have going for you is that score and a good GPA with nothing else, it's going to be impossible. Another interesting look at admits is that UCB admits somewhere around 13K students. That number is more than the total number of admits for the tippy top schools combined that you typically think of (usually somewhere between 1.5 to 2 K in their freshmen admits). FWIW, UCLA also admits around 13K. When I tell people that, they are truly shocked because they really don't realize the number aspect of admisisons at the tippy top schools and the reality is that yes, UCB and UCLA are state flagships, but they do attract national and international interest. Honestly, people need to quit griping about OOS admits. I think the OOS students applying are usually going to be top notch applicants as are international students. Now, we all know that there is going to be overlap in students gaining multiple admits from these schools as well. When you think about the sheer numbers and are truly realistic, you can totally understand why things are the way they are. However, I agree with previous comments that there are way too many people who believe that their child is somehow the exception to the story that the numbers tell. Parents are doing a serious disservice to their students by not being realistic with them.

To shed more light on the holistic approach to UCB and UCLA, I do know from an article I read from a few years ago that there is a target of 30% of admits to be from low income families and 30% from first to attend college. Throw in OOS admits and URM admits and the superstars like Olympic athletes, etc, it becomes a lot more competitive for those remaining spots. It's my alma mater, but I would be hard pressed to say whether or not I would make the cut. I would still qualify, but at these schools as well as other tippy top schools, it's no guarantee. I was helping one student with her applications. It was really difficult to get the parents to have realistic expectations. She was a good student but not among the very top in her school, cood SAT/ACT, no interesting ECs, no demonstrated passions, the essay was ok, no leadership, no awards, high middle class income, both parents are college grads but Chinese immigrants, attends a great high school where most students are college bound, etc. In all honesty, she is thousands of other students, she has a shot because she make the qualifications...but not guaranteed. She was a definite match for the next tier level schools, but, boy, those parents are seriously disappointed and feel their daughter was wronged. I had advised them years ago what was necessary for her to to make her app stand out. They didn't pursue those things, so it is what it is. They were convinced that what she did would be more than enough. They just don't want to accept her profile doesn't even mean average for the admits at this level if you exclude the special categories and factor in the Asian penalty.