Kathy G, Not talking about DYS, but the actual physical Davidson school which is run on the campus of UNR. DYS will take anyone age 5 and up I believe. But the actual school only takes +12 yr olds. :). But yes,it would be nice to live there in the event that he would be able to go to the school at that time.

That is a great point that many Davidson students might have siblings being homeschooled. Does anyone have any info on Vegas groups? Ideally I love to hear from someone who participates in one there! I've never had great luck on the yahoo homeschooling group websites.

DS isn't old enough for Davidson, but it certainly would be on the radar if we go to Reno. But until that time that we could even consider it, I'd love to hear from folks living there. I really need the next six years to have a lot more group get together schooling.

We are considering a move to Vegas or Reno shortly. Does any one have any info on how good those cities are for gifted homeschooling? I'd love an active gifted group to get together with a couple times a week. Any info about the two places would help the choice. Thanks!

My DS6 is similar. He loves academic subjects and studying on his own, but as soon as I try to direct his learning, it's an, I hate school, meltdown. For us we took last semester off,except for handwriting, and are starting this month adding a bit more back in. So far so good, but I still can't ask too much of him. He is fiercely independent,but luckily also an autodidact,so I don't worry TOO much about it. Actually, I do, but it is a delicate balance between him having some autonomy and me still waring the pants. As long as I'm confident that his brain isn't rotting with excess electronic time, then I feel like I'm doing okay. I do feel like I am always walking on eggshells around him, and being manipulated, but I'm trying hard to GENTLY lead. As far as loving math but not mailing challenging problems, that is natural for a gifted leaner who has found everything come so easy to him. It takes a long time to build that skill up and a lot of effort. Just because he is great at something, is no reason to think he will love being challenged in that area. In fact quite the opposite is true! Oh, how well I know this! Is he disliking phonics instruction because he already know how to read and finds it boring? Does he dislike reading out loud because he feels you are testing him, or he is more confident reading in his head? I only have one child, so have no idea about working with four at once,but I think if you don't take the time to make it more customized to him, you run the risk of turning him off of school for good. Fiesty, independent ones are hard....good luck!

We just finished it, and DS just turned 6 this month. He loved it. We read the poetry book, but skipped the poetry exercises. He did try a bit of poetry, but not what they asked. DS loves language, learning, and he loved the relaxed format of the books. You can always start it, and if he truly isn't ready than stop and wait. I've heard a number of folks say don't start it until they are ready to write and hence use it. DS Likes writing, and just yesterday asked me if he was using a semicolon right. Oddly I was able to explain his mistake using the grammar we have learned...no, you need a subject and a predicate there...and that was enough to clarify for him. So,I guess if he has interest and any desire to start writing,then go for it! Ages are only approximations, and really a child's interest ought be the only governing factor.

DS6 is a rather natural speller. But as long as we are working on handwriting, I'm starting to think we should cover spelling in a more organized approach. Thus far, I've simply not dealt with it at all and I'd guess he just naturally spells at a 3 or 4th grade level or higher. He is an avid reader with an amazing memory, so I'm not sure if I should even bother, or if I should just make spelling and handwriting practice one and the same. He just finished the green HWT book, so hence, why I started to think about it at all. So what type of programs are there out there that will let me start at a higher level without him missing out on key rules. And how can I find out what level he should start at? Has anyone with a natural speller/avid reader just skipped spelling entirely and found that it came on its own? Or am I just too hopeful? --signed, yors truelly, a terrorable speller ;)

My DS just barely turned six..so at exactly a year older he is starting to do probably 80% of his own math writing. At five,it was mostly oral. But he'd write out a few problems a day,maybe. A year ago 80% would have been really hard as his numbers weren't that consistently readable. In the last six months we worked though one book of HWT (the green book) and with that and maturity, his handwriting is much better...especially numbers,so it has made it easier to give him the pencil. But I think if you do too much scribing, they will learn too much to depend on you to work through things for/with them. You will end up unconsciously helping, i.e.,automatically lining up decimals for them, etc. I think it is something you would try to wing them from, and if that means that you slow down acceleration for just a bit while your concentrate harder on writing, I think it will be worth it. Not that you have to hold their brains back far...it's a great time to make their oral/thinking on their feet strong. It's a great skill to be able to do mental math fast in your head. Unless there are dysgraphia concerns, I think its a great goal to get them writing math out themselves earlier. As for LA, typing is great, but still push them to write..because without that push on their weak link, they may never feel the urge to develop the skill.

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/47468.Gifted_Young_Readers Hey Everyone. So, after seeing so many threads about getting book ideas for advanced readers, I decided to start a goodreads list where anyone can add books that are excellent choice high level books without advanced themes (ie, no sexual suggestion, no intense violence, no foul language). The idea to to make a single list that we can link to whenever anyone here or or the DYS forum asks for reading recommendations for their child. I started it by adding just a few of our favorites just to get it rolling.

It seems this exact topic comes up very frequently, both here and on the DYS forum. Someone ought to start a Goodreads List that we can just link to every time this question comes up. I actually love these questions though, because it always gives me new books to add to DS's shelf. I feel like I could list hundreds of books that would be great for him...instead, I am going to just say that one way I have found great books is by going to Goodreads, searching for the list Best Books of my Childhood, or something to that tune, and then going though it book by book and helping DS "find" these treasures of literature that no childhood should be without. Some I choose to be read alouds because they sound interesting to me too, and some I choose to buy him. But all these classic books that make the top 100 of these lists (and most of them are classics) and wonderful, most are good clean reads for our younger more sensitive children. But if you worry about the content, Goodreads is a great place to read though reviews and make sure the book is something you want your 5yo reading, if you don't have the time to pre-read it yourself. That helps with what books. Now to tackle the learning to read denser text...This is something that we had to show DS he could do at first. We knew he had the reading ability, so we just started out with some easy books - Flat Stanley, that have wide spaced text, and once he felt the confidence that he could do that, the next week he went to the Roald Dahl shorter books, like Fantastic Mr. Fox, and The Twits. Once he saw that he could tackle these chapter books, he within weeks of his first chapter book ever, was up to reading 5th grade level books, and it has been fun ever since. Just find a few books with more open texts, that still have some pictures, and that will give him a real sense of accomplishment until he is ready. But also, there is no need to push it. If he takes longer, there are still a billion books out there that are begging to be read out loud, and that will likely help him every bit as much as him reading them himself. I found that he wasn't really ready to read chapter books until HE WAS READY. We had to show him that he could, sure...but also there is something that you just have to wait for to happen in their development, some piece of maturity, something that wants to read dense looking text. And that goes way beyond the ability to just read and understand...that itself if a different "skill". DS had the ability to decode and comprehend higher level books, way before he was ready to put the effort/desire into it, at least for long stretches. Anyway, the step up sequence for us was, Flat Stanley, Encyclopedia Brown, Twits, Fantastic Mr. Fox, Giraffe, the Pelley and Me, and then we were into Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and finished every other Roald Dahl book within 1-2 months. Happy Reading!

Wow, you describe my current worries to a T. DS5 (nearly 6) also reads at a midgrade(6-8 grade)level and I hate the attitudes he has picked up because of it. I try to pre-read a lot of his books, but I can't keep up! Why do teens always have to talk about how learning sucks and authority is terrible. Even if there is no bad language there is always an undercurrent of these ideas. The teacher says, "we are going to learn about something", the class comes back with a "ahhhhhh, do we have to?". I hate these attitudes, because DS, before he got exposed, loved learning. Now I feel like I listen to a teenager complain about everything all day long. My DS is a lot like yours, in that he loves to teach himself and hates being directed. It is a struggle, to be sure. So the past couple of months, I've just been letting that happen. I have learned that he is young and yet and time to learn how to learn in a structured way. For now, as long as his daily habits of reading teach him something, his mind is growing, he is getting back his love of learning (as we work to keep TV shows and book attitudes out of the way). I still keep my foot inserted in the door to remind him that I am in charge of his education, even though he is in the lead. So I require from him handwriting, three math problems, and reading time daily. Pretty light, but he still sees it as something to argue. Something else I have learned is that with a stubborn autodidact stepping out of the way and letting them run with the lead isn't just the best way...its the only way. Once you try to make them conform and learn what you want you shut off their love and desire to learn pretty fast. I find that leading him has to be done very gently. VERY gently. Is it good to let a Ker have at it with his own education? Not for most. But for kids like ours, you have to take a different view, and you need the long view to work on their attitudes about things. Star Wars school sounds a lot like our current Plants vs Zombies school....mindless videogames. But then I look at how my DS has tackeled the obsession. He has read the entire Wiki on it....I mean entire! He knows every detail, every location, hack code, weakness, strength, and to such amazing detail. He has learned the game inside and out. Of course, at first all I did was think PvsZ, mind numbing...but I wasn't looking at what he was really doing..he was studying zombies with the same intensity he used to study dinosaurs or whatever. I just couldn't see value because it wasn't a academic subject. But his brain used as much memory and thought processing on this studying as anything else. I just had to see though the medium and beyond it. Then when his brain has learned everything it can, it passes on to a new topic. And yes,I can't wait until the PvsZ stage passes. So what I am saying, is that there may be a lot going on with his Star Wars school...maybe just as much as if he were studying geology or astronomy... And sometimes if you just let them seep in it, they will fill themselves up and it will pass. In the meantime, realize he is young, he is ahead, and has time to wander, fuel his passions, gently teach taking direction and structure, but let him be an autodidact if that is who he is. As for reading that keeps the bad attitudes out, a heavy dose of non fiction and classic literature for kids. In the old days they would have never thought to disrespect adults in literature....stuff like DS is currently reading...the complete OZ series. Also, Wind in the Willows, EB White, classic authors, more beautiful language, better writing, higher level writing with stories that appeal to young kids...Alice in Wonderland, Wrinkle in Time. Pardon the typing...on phone. Best of luck..it is hard!!! SN

Wow, you describe my current worries to a T. DS5 (nearly 6) also reads at a midgrade(6-8 grade)level and I hate the attitudes he has picked up because of it. I try to pre-read a lot of his books, but I can't keep up! Why do teens always have to talk about how learning sucks and authority is terrible. Even if there is no bad language there is always an undercurrent of these ideas. The teacher says, "we are going to learn about something", the class comes back with a "ahhhhhh, do we have to?". I hate these attitudes, because DS, before he got exposed, loved learning. Now I feel like I listen to a teenager complain about everything all day long. My DS is a lot like yours, in that he loves to teach himself and hates being directed. It is a struggle, to be sure. So the past couple of months, I've just been letting that happen. I have learned that he is young and yet and time to learn how to learn in a structured way. For now, as long as his daily habits of reading teach him something, his mind is growing, he is getting back his love of learning (as we work to keep TV shows and book attitudes out of the way). I still keep my foot inserted in the door to remind him that I am in charge of his education, even though he is in the lead. So I require from him handwriting, three math problems, and reading time daily. Pretty light, but he still sees it as something to argue. Something else I have learned is that with a stubborn autodidact stepping out of the way and letting them run with the lead isn't just the best way...its the only way. Once you try to make them conform and learn what you want you shut off their love and desire to learn pretty fast. I find that leading him has to be done very gently. VERY gently. Is it good to let a Ker have at it with his own education? Not for most. But for kids like ours, you have to take a different view, and you need the long view to work on their attitudes about things. Star Wars school sounds a lot like our current Plants vs Zombies school....mindless videogames. But then I look at how my DS has tackeled the obsession. He has read the entire Wiki on it....I mean entire! He knows every detail, every location, hack code, weakness, strength, and to such amazing detail. He has learned the game inside and out. Of course, at first all I did was think PvsZ, mind numbing...but I wasn't looking at what he was really doing..he was studying zombies with the same intensity he used to study dinosaurs or whatever. I just couldn't see value because it wasn't a academic subject. But his brain used as much memory and thought processing on this studying as anything else. I just had to see though the medium and beyond it. Then when his brain has learned everything it can, it passes on to a new topic. And yes,I can't wait until the PvsZ stage passes. So what I am saying, is that there may be a lot going on with his Star Wars school...maybe just as much as if he were studying geology or astronomy... And sometimes if you just let them seep in it, they will fill themselves up and it will pass. In the meantime, realize he is young, he is ahead, and has time to wander, fuel his passions, gently teach taking direction and structure, but let him be an autodidact if that is who he is. As for reading that keeps the bad attitudes out, a heavy dose of non fiction and classic literature for kids. In the old days they would have never thought to disrespect adults in literature....stuff like DS is currently reading...the complete OZ series. Also, Wind in the Willows, EB White, classic authors, more beautiful language, better writing, higher level writing with stories that appeal to young kids...Alice in Wonderland, Wrinkle in Time. Pardon the typing...on phone. Best of luck..it is hard!!! SN

Well, for us, where we are taking a math break for awhile, we are just using them at DS's discretion. If I was trying to actually teach him something, I would be reading with him. But we are using them in a- no pressure, if you want to read about math in your own time, great, if not, great - sort of way. So at this point, that means that DS just reads them for fun in his bed at night. But personally, I would struggle with using two curriculum at once anyway, and since BA doesn't go past 4A right now, it is not going to be our spine by default....SM is going to be. But the beauty of the BA and LOF books are that if you don't use them to teach out of, your kids can just enjoy math on their own time, in their own way.. and if they pick up anything at all from it, great! If not, at least they had fun reading. The only reason I would say that BA might not be worth the money is that if you do want to use it as your main curriculum, it very well might not keep (publishing-wise) pace with your child, and you would only benefit from using if for a short while, in which case, I would be more tempted to use a different spine, and just use BA as fun math reading, so that we didn't have to switch back and forth.

I always wondered this myself...but as we have amassed different books (and right now are taking a break from all of them) I have found that having one place to work problems out of be it SM or BA, and one book that is just fun reading (LoF or BA) - stuff your kid will take to bed with them and read but not necessarily to do the problems. For us I think SM will be the spine so to speak, and BA is just bedtime reading, where we might work a couple problems out of the practice book once a week for a break, but not really do it straight through. It really is becoming a problem that there are so many great math programs out there...it makes it way too easy to end up with more math book than one needs or ought or can do. They all have their strengths, but it is just too much math for one kid to do - especially if they don't need all the repetition to get things. Once we start up with math again, we will do SM...and BA is now, and will be then, just a fun comic book basically.

Yes. We got just the textbooks for fun for the 3A-D. Then we got 4A text and workbook. But if your kid is reading them in bed, then to me it is worth it. But almost any book is worth the $ to me, as I am a bit of a book buying addict. I also struggled at first with getting them (just a few weeks ago), since we already had SM4, and I didn't want to use two different curriculum at once. But I look at BA as a independent type of book - where he can just read for fun on his own, under no pressure.

One thing that ought to be considered beyond the ability of the curriculum to develop higher level thinking, is the ability of the curriculum to appeal presentation-wise to a younger audience than the subject matter is aimed at. Gifted curriculums need to have an odd set of attributes-- they need to go into greater depth for younger minds... And those younger minds need and still enjoy the simple pages, the illustrations, the zany approaches. That is why MCT hits the nail on the head so squarely. A very young child can handle the low volmne of text per page and yet still get the deeper arguments. I find that this is a hard nitch to fill. Beast Acadamy is on track for that, but they don't go up to high enough levels yet. And wouldn't it be nice if they did a cross-over into pre/algebra that was still presented in the comic format? Mostly what I find is that just random books for pleasure reading have to fill that niche- not specific curriculums. So for science, DS loves the Horrible Sceince books. To him, it is pleasure reading. But within those books is an entire mid-grade level science curriculum... But it still appeals to his comical fun side. Same with all the Horrible and Murderous books . DS also loves to read the very visual series Help Your Kid With Math/LA/Science. (3 books by DK). I would venture to say that besides math and LA, we will probably always be using (I think what this site refers to as living books? Though I am not sure what that means exactly) just a huge selection of books to learn from... But not designed curriculums. An interesting thread though. Thanks!

Actually, I did come here to learn from other experiences. And I am open minded, and I came because I truly want what is best for our child, and I want to know how other PG kid's parents do it. I don't want to kill the passion, and at the same time, I don't want to let him run so free that he never learns his place. I am seeking that balance and reaching out to see how others have achieved it, or attempted to. In the past week (have been too busy to respond sooner) I have taken a lot of what has been said to heart. I see a need to turn back to more interest based learning and to let him follow his passions and run with them. Maybe thinking that he was at an age where he ought to start some structured formal curriculum was wrong. I am going to back off for the year (require only handwriting), and just seep in the learning like we used to do before where it was more fun and it kept his passion alive. So thanks for all your many thoughts.

Double post.

Just as there is a large range of what is academically appropriate for a five year old, there is also a wide range of what is developmentally appropriate for a five year old. Not all five year-olds have short attention spans and can only take things in 15 minute increments. DS sounds much like your kids and does a ton of stuff on his own time and as a part of his play. He really only does 10 minutes of handwriting seat-work, and then less than an hour of math seat-work in any given day, and sometimes broken up, if he likes. I don't think 1-2 hours of work (with half of that seat work) is asking anything too much for a typical five year old, let alone a highly gifted five year old. And I am talking a step back to look at the picture - I realized that over the past month or two, since we started school up, DS has really taken a dislike to his math program, and so I am reaching out to get ideas of what to do. Maybe what I would really like to see is what other moms do with their five year old PG kids - because when you have this insane drive to learn, and work at a high level with little effort and ease, then it is not the same case as other kids. And yes, I am at a loss of what to do. It scares me. It is not the average situation. Most five year olds would rather be watching cartoons that reading about science. I am not trying to force him to do anything. I am only trying to really teach him one important thing (school wise) - and that is how to put effort into his learning. Because when you have never had to put effort into anything, you will crumble when things become harder. That is one of my main reasons for inducing him to do any formal curriculum right now, because frankly, if I left him to him self, he would still be learning at a rapid rate just through his own reading and such. To all the others that have just given me a good idea of what a typical day with a five year old looks like, I thank you.

As for not dreaming of imposing "formal studies" on her at this point - just realize that most all Americans send their kids to pre-school and at five they enter K. So my child, if on that track would be in a learning environment for at least three hours a day. This helps a kid work up and adapt to the longer days that will be ahead. Just because he naturally learned the K-3 curriculum on his own, and with very little effort, is no reason, to deny him the necessary skill of learning how to learn. I expect that he learn the skill of learning. And this takes an incremental work up to it, time wise over the years. Believe me, the child's interests are driving. And until you have a PG kiddo, it is hard to comprehend how that works. No, I am not sitting him down for hours in front of ixl with no instruction and just letting him cry it out. I teach, we use those problems for a workbook, and it started out as something he loved. But the repetition has got to him, and not he hates it, which is why we are changing tracks. He still loves math. Believe me, my son does all those things too. It really doesn't take us more than 1-2 hours a day of doing our school. That leaves more than plenty of time for everything else you can imagine. I feel like just because DS is so accelerated, people are thinking that I must be making him work insane hours to get there. WRONG! He just gets things so fast, and with so little effort, that we really hardly have to spend anytime on school to achieve the level we are at. I know we don't have to start formal education at this age. But one or two hours a day is meant to prepare him for the requirements that will be on him later as he ages. I want to work into things slowly. The majority of our life is un-schooling, but we do do a formal math curriculum, because math seems to be the easiest thing to do in a formal sort of way. Of course you don't have to ramp it up!

Ixl.

So this post copies the seven year old one- but I'm interested in revamping our day for our five year old. He is quite accelerated- working 3rd to 4th in most subjects, except maybe early second for handwriting. His greatest love is science. He detests our current math program- but still likes math. So I need to salvage that enjoyment and change courses. Help me design time and subjects for a boy who loves to move, accelerates quickly, and has a stubborn streak the size of Texas.

MofBethany - Wow, you couldn't have described our own situation more perfectly. So I am also happily reading the comments and trying to change tracks myself. The only difference is our boy is younger (5.5) and we only started officially homeschooling this year. I already feel like I have killed his love for math. I am also a 100% type of mom - at least when it comes to completing a curriculum. Our situation was that we began using the program ixl this year. It is a program that drives perfectionism and has too much repetition for one kid (especially gifted). The requirement to get thirty-two problems of the exact same type of problem, over and over again until you reach 100 was enticing to a box-checker off-er like myself, but drained the passion for my son. But for me, I wanted to finish, since we had paid for it, and at first, he really did like it. But as the problems became more repetitive and tedious to write down, he balked more and more. He still loved math, but only in his own way, and not at all while I was making him do his schooling. He still liked to read Murderous Maths, and other maths books. The thing that confuses me is that he says he wants to finish the grade level in order to earn all the little "rewards". But the handful of skills we have left (things he is already competent in) he wants to finish theoretically, but has major melt downs, attention problems, etc, while he is doing them. I have seen the attention problems bloom, as the repetition and tediousness of the work has increased. I sense that he needs to have more interesting math, not just adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing over and over again, in all it's forms. He is pretty fluent in all his math facts (we thank Big Brainz for that), so that is not the issue. Handwriting is his biggest hold-up, but when he can write large, on the white board, he makes way fewer mistakes. I have decided to just drop ixl, (with less than 10% to finish), give him a final 3rd grade test, to make sure he has it down and move into a different curriculum - maybe even just winging a bunch of the curriculum myself. We are going to start reading some Life of Fred together, order the 4A Monster Academy (wish they only came out faster) and try to really back off the repetitiveness. I am also going to order some Penrose books, allow myself, and teach him, that it is okay to not do every single problem. We just got the Singapore program, and we will work through the more interesting CWP, and I might try Aleks. Anyway, that is my new plan. I think that fact that I was so rigid, and encouraged the mentality of doing every skill to 100% no matter what caused that problem. It is hard when you see your child has so much math talent, to not get carried away and want to make sure it is a solid, and thorough. I have a lot of learning to do myself, but mostly I need to make it more fun. Accelerated kids, still like stuff presented to them in the same manner as age mates, and might not be ready for the dryer presentation of their actual ability level. So it is our job to still make math be fun! Good luck, I am still struggling with this myself.

Thanks for all the great ideas. For people that are suggesting multiple curriculums going at once - is that really necessary? He does read math books on his own - stuff like Murderous Maths, The Number Devil, etc. But I don't want to really give him any more math work. In fact, as soon as we start into our new curriculum, I think the sheer amount of problems is going to drop off a lot. Singapore seems to be pretty light on repetition, and just doing the workbooks and then the CWP, seems to be pretty fast and light. For him, I think he will jet through fourth grade in a few months or less. I don't see anything really challenging in there for him. He moves from novel to mastery like lightning! I want to slow him down, as I am not really ready to have a six year old doing algebra. So I will look into all your great suggestions. Quark, you mentioned that you found SM too easy as well? I am curious because I went with it after sooooo many people suggested it as being the most challenging program. But honestly, I am kind of floored at how easy it is, and though I haven't given it to him yet (we still have three weeks left to finish off our 3rd grade curriculum) I KNOW that he already knows just about everything in there. I am looking forward to the CWP, but other than that, it seems super easy.

Thank you for posting those schedules. Hopefully (after I look at them in better detail), they will help the system make better sense to me.