This is why I think TOG would be a better fit. I've already got all the songs from CC and TOG has amazing art and science classes and I can supplement music myself so it seems like the only thing missing from CC is presentations, which they start doing in this TOG co-op in 3rd grade. And I like that even though there is homework for some of the classes, if the parent chooses not to require it, the choice is with the parent, at least in the grammar stage. And I love all the books they are doing, we already have half of them!

There are a couple other families with grammar aged kids and they are families that I already slightly know. Plus they don't require purchasing any books, though I'd certainly spend less on books for TOG than on CC. I'm definitely getting talked into TOG.

How focused is TOG on logic and rhetoric?

:iagree: Yes, yes, and yes!!!

:iagree: I've tried 2 years of working SOTW into CC and just couldn't make it work, it was too disjointed and I like SOTW's system better. I haven't decided whether I'll be in a CC community or not but I'll do SOTW and use the CC songs where they apply.

CC is costing me $500 per kid, which granted most goes to the director and tutor and after tutoring 1 year, I know they earn every penny. But the TOG co-op will cost me about $200 for all 3 kids. This seems to be a no brainer so am I missing something?

I just posted the same thing! I want to know too!

We've been in CC for 2 years now and, for the most part, we've enjoyed it. I like the presentations, the social interaction, that it's a classically focused community. But the cost is more an issue than last year. So I just found out about a TOG co-op in the area. It sounds like it actually fits better with SOTW than CC even though they don't actually use SOTW. The cost is a fraction of the cost of CC. What I don't know yet is if their language arts will work with my WWE/BW or how focused they are on the logic or rhetoric stages, though those are off in the distance for my kids. I'd love more information about what TOG is actually like and how it fits with my curriculums.

And there are some Horizon 4 on Homeschool Classifieds for $40-$60 :)

And for what it's worth, you can sell your Singapore on Homeschool Classifieds or here and and they would sell well and quickly, especially if they are in good condition. I for one would be very interested ;)

That's a hard choice and I'd say if it were me it would depend on how tight my budget was. Singapore and Horizon are both great programs so it's not like you're picking between bad and good. If my budget were tight but I could make it work I would get Horizons for her and I wouldn't get rid of Singapore but that's because I have four kids and could still use both, plus we do two math programs every year. It adds to my budget for sure but it's important to me so that they are as comfortable with different styles of math as possible. If I could afford it I would do LOF in the summer too.

When you click edit for an Excel spreadsheet within OneNote it will open the actual file in Excel and it will automatically update. When I really want an Excel spreadsheet then I use this formatting but most of the time for my homeschool planning all I really need is a table and you can insert that just by clicking on Insert and then Table. I usually click Insert Table after that so that I can tell it how many columns and rows I want. It can do sums so I use it for calculating how much I expect to spend on curriculum for the next year and it can insert check boxes which I love! For instance, within my notebook for the year, each child has their own Section and then each week has a different Page. Each page has a table for the week and I can fill out the subject and then the assignment under each day which has it's own check box. It's much quicker to set up than an Excel spreadsheet and when you want to check the box you just click it instead of opening Excel. If I used an Excel spreadsheet it would take longer to set up and I'd have to save each week's seperately and open it every time I wanted to check a box. I love being able to cut and paste from anywhere on the web and dropping it into OneNote and it links to the original page. So handy for researching curriculum and being able jump straight to the page to order or see pricing. With a microphone and webcam you can also record video and audio, or link to them.

I want one just for the Reading Rainbow app! :drool5:

FTR, your list is exactly what CC includes, plus Latin declensions :D Also, FTR, I used "torture" because that's what other posters make memorization without context sound like. In reality, my kids adore the memorization they do because it's all songs. They don't see it as work, they beg me to play it in the car and walk around the house singing them at the top of their lungs. ETA: smiley face because I love them

I'm the same way. I really want it all in one place so I don't have to go searching online when I'm looking for something specific and so I can take my own notes. I do love that she makes so much free though so if people are willing to take the time they can find all the information. Love, love, love that. This year we did WWE as our spine and JiT as a supplement but now I'm thinking of swapping and using JiT as the spine and WWE in place of the Wand. I love these two programs and that I can switch back and forth so easily from year to year and from child to child. I'd really love to try the Wand but I don't think it's going to fit in our budget this year.

I see the memorization that my kids are doing like a toddler playing with alphabet blocks or singing the ABC song. It makes them familiar with the things that they will later put into context. Starting memory work before kids are ready for context might not be everyone's choice but I do have reasons for subjecting my children to this torture :lol:

Brave Writer is a stand alone program so you don't NEED to do WWE. That said, I found that BW is a very free flowing program so it works better for me to do WWE and supplement with the creative ideas from BW. I think for 1st you could do Jot It Down with out WJ but if you're going to continue using BW products I would highly recommend WJ, I love it.

I'm committed at least through elementary school, then will reevaluate for middle school and high school. I'll do the same for each child.

There are things I like about CC and things I don't. I do like the memorization, a lot. For instance, my son didn't understand the skip counting songs for the first two years but he just started studying multiplication and his face lit up right away because he already had the building blocks in his head. I like being in community with others who are doing some form of classical education, whether it's the exact same form as mine or not. I like the science because for elementary grades I'm lean toward Charlotte Mason and living books and so the experiments are enough science to get my kids excited about it. I LOVE the presentation time, it's as important, if not more important than the memorization. Most kids are terrified of public speaking but CC gets the practicing it from 4-5 years old. My kids love going, it's the highlight of their week and that's a big reason we're still going. The things I don't like...it's unacceptable to criticize CC in any way. While I think complaining/whining should be avoided there is a place for constructive criticism but not in CC. I also don't like the heavy focus on American History and Evangelicalism. I have Catholic/Anglican friends who would be interested but the curriculum is very negative towards anything but Evangelicalism. It includes American Evangelical missionaries in the History and Timeline, something I don't think should be included in World History. Some people love it, I just would rather teach religion on my own so that a wider variety of people would feel welcome. It depends on the group but some are more structured than others. So far I've been a part of two more relaxed groups. If I didn't have the option of a relaxed group I would not find the cost worth the stress of a strictly structured group. The Fear of Copyright - there is constant fear of copyright and constant conversation about it, it's quite overboard. I believe in copyright but this is ridiculous. We'll do at least one more of CC and we might finish Foundations but I doubt I will do Essentials or Challenge. Essentials is mostly about IEW and I wouldn't do IEW on my own so I don't want to pay even more to have someone else do it. Challenge is a possibility but right now it seems like I could use that money for private tutors and get more bang for my buck.

We've been doing Classical Conversations for a couple years ago and my kids love the history and Latin songs but there aren't songs for geography, science, math (except for skip counting), or English grammar. I could pay for their subscription to download user recorded songs but I don't always like them and it's extremely time consuming, besides which, I'm not sure I want to stick with CC and even if I do I'd like supplement. Are there any programs that have songs for these subjects?

I think it depends on your goals. Not everyone on here thinks memorization should be the focus for the grammar stage. But we're doing Classical Conversations which is mostly memory work so both DS1(1st) and DD1(K) have done a lot of memory work this year...math, science, geography, English grammar, history, and Latin. Since it's mostly songs we just put it on to listen to in the car but I constantly hear the kids signing them around the house. I'm not sure if we'll do CC much longer so I'm looking for other programs that would have memory work songs right now.

Sigh. We just moved and I was hoping since it's a large area I'd find at least a few like-minded homeschoolers but now I'm losing hope!

You must be right! Surely this is why the CC forums are so skimpy. I thought when I started CC that because there were so many programs around the country that their forums would be amazing but they are poorly formatted and I have never found the answer to my questions there. Thank goodness for TWTM forums!

:iagree: We're a musical family so music is a given for my kids, piano and one other instrument. I have decided what to do about art yet though, for now we just use Drawing With Children every once in a while. I think art and music are excellent things and work parts of your brain and imagination that other things don't, but it also depends on the family. Some families would skip them altogether to focus on the sciences or on sports. And sometimes it'll depend on the child. DD1 has had art bursting out of her (onto my walls, floors, and furniture) since she could hold a crayon, she just can't help it. If I can get her private art lessons, I will. DS2 has been interested in sports since he could pick up a ball so I'll probably let him focus on sports.

We got the kids used Kindles for our move since I had to fly cross-country with all four by myself. Now we just limit them to the weekends. I have some educational apps for DS1 but we don't use them for that very often. The Kindle Fire has FreeTime, which locks the Kindle into a kid friendly mode with only the items that you allow access to. You can even set limits so that they have to read for so long or use educational apps for so long before they can watch videos. I don't use the limits since we only use them on the weekends anyway.