Bumping for you because I know several homeschoolers in SC who are concerned and want to get the information out to others.

Ditto to Art Reed's videos and to the A+ Tutorial DVD for the TI graphing calculator at MathTutorDVD.com that Jenn suggested a while ago.

:grouphug:

Everytime I see the term "rat race" I think, the problem is everyone participating is a rat. Just a side thought...

The world is way more competitive today than 15/20 years ago. My life has not been all that long (unless you ask a teenager), but I have lived through decades of incredible change and witnessed in areas of explosive growth. I struggle to imagine what the world will look like when Dd is my age with thoughts of what to do for her kids if the rate of change stays constant. The thing is, I have lived long enough to see that change/progress is not at a steady constant rate and it is only growing. That said, I have to ask questions like "Will Dd be able to relate to the investor in India/China/Singapore or some other place?" or "Am I helping her to learn to learn in a manner that will give her the skills to embrace change and thrive in it?" or "Will she send me a digital image of her trip into orbit like the postcards we receive now from friends/families on a cruise vacation?" or "Am I helping her to learn to understand cultures and be able to communicate with a vast variety of people?"...Good grief, there are questions I should be asking I need a lot more coffee to even begin to conceive. In light of these, which summer camp she goes to in order to add a notch to her Ivy application really seem small. Just saying....

We have done a couple of day trips or walk about visits in conjunction with vacations over the past few years. Dd is in 9th now and those trips have shown her to take a look at bulletin boards, note how students seem to interact in student unions/cafes, and see how towns (cities) and colleges fit together. It helped to put a picture with the idea of college and I think it peaked motivation to do well to meet standards to have choices. This year we have poked around on websites together. This has helped generate some general questions on her part. I was actually planning to sit down this summer with her and let her take a look at the college confidential website. That site can be a bit intense, but it does have some subforums and such that give some discussion she might benefit from considering before it all gets real in a couple of years. Just these types of things have helped her develop a sense of what she wants. I differ from some in that I am not a huge fan of laser focus early in high school, something about 14 year olds charting their entire life just doesn't feel right to me. We make sure she is taking a solid course progression that will not rule out STEM. We are planning to travel a bit in her Junior year and will do some more formal college visits then and she has a list that she keeps in a journal. It changes over time and that is fine. Even if her test scores wind up stellar, I don't want her to look at a school for what will look best. I want her to select a place with a decent reputation that will live well for 4 years and help her build to where she wants to go for post grad work. That we know, she will likely be doing more than a Bachelors. She loves the performing arts, but she is not likely to want to major exclusively in one. Just from the poking about we have done, she has decided an MFA is not the path she wants to go because she wants a broader experience.

One area that came to mind where CC can be more certain is with in state colleges or universities that have standing agreements with the CC's. For someone looking for credits or even a more certain admissions this can be a big factor. Some states, or some schools within a given state have these sorts of agreements. Some states pay the tuition for high schoolers in CC (Dual Enrollment) and that really can also be a factor for some.

Because we really are not focused on reducing the cost or time required to obtain a BA or BS in college, we are coming at the AP vs CC question with different criteria than someone who is seeking to gain college credit while in high school. For us, it is a hoop to jump through to provide some outside validation of the overall rigor/quality of our experience and perhaps for the experience itself. Dd will likely wind up with a couple of CC classes in her Junior and Senior year, and a few AP's along the way. I would not want her at the CC before that age range, so AP serves the purpose for grades 10/11 and she has expressed some interest in a couple for grade 12. I have come to the conclusion over this year that I am not going to try to validate each and every class in high school. Hopefully a combination of a few well chosen experiences will give admissions a general sense of what we tried to accomplish. There are some great teachers with great classes at some CC's (ones near major colleges/universities sometimes have the same folks teaching for extra money). The AP exams for some of the subject areas are pretty fair about testing what would be a reasonably rigorous course in the subject area. College itself is a varied experience. Some classes are similar to the AP experience with everything riding on a final exam. Some are more like a CC experience with the ability to show up regularly, meet incremental expectations and work well with a particular instructor/class over time. We really are planning to take each course and decide what the best option available to us for it will be and hopefully emerge with a varied overall set of experiences to display to an admissions reviewer.

@ $500.00 seems to be the number I hear most. Workbooks/Consumables can be budget munchers. It is often like the whole textbook discussion, some people view them as far too conventional and school-like to be worthy of the lofty ideals of homeschool. We have found that some of them are really efficient and effective and bolster our less formalized approaches in other areas. I remember cringing at the idea of spending @55.00 on Hake Grammar 8. It turned out to be some of the best money ever spent. I could have covered the same for free, it was comprehensive, provided an abundance of practice and we wound up with a resource book that we intend to hold on to for several years. It also freed up my attention to spend more time on sciences and spend less there while knowing Dd was marching through a solid review of grammar. On the other hand, some consumables have been a flop. I asked a 9th grade public school mom recently what they spent for the year. She noted examples of 35.00 required gym outfit, 75.00 lab fee, 25.00 school pictures, 25.00 yearbook, 30.00 on candles for a fundraiser, 15.00 PTA dues of some sort, and constant requests for band/arts booster clubs...then she noted in future years there would be parking passes and so forth... They have programs to cover some of these fees/costs for those with need and are often asking for donations for that as well. She noted being particularly bugged by a $5.00 bumper sticker that was not technically required to be purchased but "everybody did it". The point being that even public school is not completely free. We found we save a great deal on clothing and trends as compared with traditionally schooled kids. Even little things like snacks are less. The PS mom pointed out she buys individual bottled drinks that would be less if she could buy by the gallon/liter or individually wrapped snacks that would be cheaper if the kids were home. My point with this is that sometimes it doesn't hurt to look back and see what was spent the previous year because the student was in a traditional school as part of the consideration.

The Thomas Sowell I have is Basic Economics.

Would this be redundant for a student who did Art of Argument and Argument Builder?

I am not well versed in Notgrass specifically (have really only skimmed over it at the bookstore), but would be concerned about attempting all of World History in a single year. To do so would really have to be very shallow and even then move at a brisk pace. Dd is finishing a 2 year World History course this year, and it was a full two years. There are many rich parts and pieces we would have enjoyed and benefited from spending more time exploring. It could be done in a year, but it would be very thin.

Nancy, TY for the further information, especially a heads up on the literature bit. When I showed my daughter the write up Mrs. Richman has on the PA Homeschoolers website describing the class, she was very excited about the entire thing. If she is able to get a spot in the class it really does sound like a perfect fit for Dd and our plans for next year.

I would travel and we are seriously considering a fifth year of high school to do so as a family. However, I would not abandon math completely. It is just so hard to return to math. I would not necessarily do a formal math program or follow next in the sequence of whatever, but I would have math exploration continue that called upon Dd to practice elements previously learned.

They learn an awful lot from those extra's. Let me give a vivid example: in middle school I had a mom tell me we were not really following the WTM mind because I did not have Dd do copywork, memorization or dictation. Then it struck me, a kid who is memorizing a script and performing ultimately performing it before hundreds of people is covering those skills, just in a different context. The process of learning a dance routine is mental and physical. How many people can do elaborate moves to a fixed routine where the position of every part of your body is judged for accuracy/precision in front of a panel of judges---and oh yeah it better be spunky and have artistic creativity? Seriously, I have learned to look at things suggested in a curriculum and ask if this particular child needs this or has it been addressed elsewhere.

Sometimes a book should just be read, it need not be dissected. Some chapters in science can be treated lighter than others (40 questions on biomes and habitats?? --maybe not entirely necessary.). Does your child thrive on quizzes leading up to a bigger tests? If yes, then maybe you need them. If not, then a lot of time can be saved in eliminating them or doing them orally in the car. I help my very busy daughter by culling out what matters and what may not need as much emphasis ahead of time. Even if Dd had none of the extra's in the evenings she does, I would not want her working beyond about 3pm. Her path is not going to be made by being by logging the most academic hours worked. If she really wants the balance of her love for her arts and academics, she is going to have to learn to juggle and manage or compromise.

It is really easy for us to forget just how fun practicing and performing is for these kids. I had a moment this year with Dd when I saw her perform and the applause was distinguishably louder after a vocal solo she did than any other time in the show. In that moment I remembered why we are doing what we are. She recognizes that she doesn't have the time many of her homeschool friends do to play minecraft/or whatever game, watch tv, build a internet social life and so forth and sometimes she will moan. The thing is, those moans don't last long and she has learned those diversions come and go rather quickly in the teen realm. If ever she feels it is all just too much, we will adjust. For now, she just wants more.

It will be her 10th grade year and if I go with what the suggestion here seems to be her overall course load would be: AP Gov't (Self studied, I think I would use the George Edwards AP Text as a spine with lots of C-Span and selected documents/cases and the suggested study guides) APUSH via PA Homeschool (with Susan Richman) Hewitt's Conceptual Physics Lessons 1-90 Saxon Advanced Math Latin 1 via Lukeion American Literature/Composition Spanish 2 7 credits, 2 AP exams, National Latin Exam in Spring. Hmmm. This year she simultaneous is doing Biology and Chemistry-both with labs, World History post 1300, World Literature/Composition, Spanish 1, Saxon Alg. 2 - and Art of Argument and Literary Lessons Lord of the Rings on top of it. I think she can do the above next year and continue her extras. I might have to be diligent about not allowing the Lit/Comp to get too big the way they tend to do. I am assuming the APUSH will have a healthy does of essay practice.?.? Perhaps a lighter does of writing in the Lit area....thinking aloud

Ditto to Regentude....I am a bit confused. I had always heard the term gap year used to denote a year between the end of high school and beginning college. How would a gap year in middle school work? Would it mean holding a child back a year so that they graduate at an older age?

I read it and go back to it several times a year. I also read Creative Homeschooling by Lisa Rivero and visit it from time to time. Actually, over time I have read and looked into all sorts of educational pedagogies, philosophies.... I was not looking for a detailed must do list. I did enter homeschooling wanting to absorb the guidance of "been there done that" from others. The WTM approach appeals to me as an organizing philosophy. The book contains a wealth of suggested resources and I like thinking of k-12 learning as a progression of stages. The Grammar/ Logic/ Rhetoric progression does seem to match with developmental stages. I admire anyone who takes the time to sit down, think through and then clearly articulate a plan. TWTM does so.

Looking at your sig, you Dd is similar to mine with the added challenge of theatre, music and dance. Dd and I have found that although she would sometimes love to have less structure in her daily work, she needs it. Meeting the demands of time and scheduling adjustments performing arts impose is a different animal.

You may want to add Sir Gawain and the Green Knight to your list if you are already using LLOTR. (edited for spelling error)

I no longer practice but a JD and years of practice are tools in my bag of tricks.

It may help your husband a bit if you pull up the Common Ap online and let him see. If he were to look at it and then look at the homeschool applicant sections of colleges the two of you think may be contenders. He will see that it really is not only possible to be accepted to college without an accredited diploma, but homeschooling at this point is established enough that colleges have their own processes.

Thank you all for your responses, very helpful advice. I will be a challenging year for her daily work load wise, but it is looking like it will be the best possible year to do this particular combination, especially given the exam is set to change the following year.