I'm starting to realize that dd10 needs some phonics rule based instruction. As a babe of 4, she learned to read with the help of HeadSprout. We both loved it and it worked just as advertised. While it used a phonetic approach to reading, it didn't explain the rules. Off she went to school as a strong reader and I thought nothing of it. She remains a strong, voracious reader and a very strong speller, but I find that because she's lacking in phonetic rules, she gets stuck on pronouncing multisyllabic (4,5,6, etc. syllables) words. DD7 on the other hand is receiving a strong foundation using ETC and AAS (love, love, love AAS!!!). She just finished ETC 4 & 41/2 (I use all the 1/2 levels) and man, it had some pretty complex rules that I didn't even know about :001_huh:. We began in September with AAS1 and we are now in AAS2 and although dd knows how to spell all the words, the rules explain the why. This program is magic, and painless, and brings joy to our learning experience. We do most of it on the white board (thank goodness for white boards) and dd looks forward to spelling every time. During lesson time yesterday, dd10 commented on how great she felt that little sister was learning how to spell this way and laments on not having been taught these methods in school. For a long time now, I've noticed her struggle with BIG words and I feel it's time to do something about it as I'd like for her reading skills to keep steady progress. So, do I back up and go over the rules with her??? I'm leaning towards doing this and have a few ideas of what to use to help me accomplish it: MegaWords (although I'm not keen on using workbooks) AAS (just the rules and diy rule memory cards?) Webster's Speller I'm leaning towards using AAS because I already have it, plan to continue using it, it is not workbooky, and it takes minimal time during the day to implement. Trying not to get too frustrated here, but it the lack of education my dc were receiving in public school is staggering. I had no idea so much was missing! I am grateful for the advice and help I continue to receive from the hive. Thanks!

Winnie the Pooh (the original series. NOT DISNEY!!! Any of them/all of them will do. These are fantastic for a first all young and old) The Tale of Despreaux (My absolute favorite) The End of the Beginning (a really sweet quick read) A Cricket in Times Square (dd7 really liked this one) HTH

Oh my, what a juicy post!!! Ah, the dreaded W word (more like WTF :lol::lol:). First off, to the OP, I offer my sympathies and :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:. As you can tell by the many responses, writing strikes a cord with many of us here. There is so much flip flopping and neck turning, I think I'll need an adjustment soon! There have been many great things said so far, some to which I will be giving serious thought. I agree with the general consensus that there is no one right writing curricula, with a pretty little magic wand, turning our dc into stellar writers. What I do know is that when I first read and then listened the WTM writing methods and then to the SWB lectures, they made perfect sense to me (and why wouldn't they......she's a professional writer for Pete's sake!) and I wholeheartedly meant to implement them. THEN like a tsunami, the writing posts kept coming, and coming, and coming until they appeared like 30, 40, 50 ft. waves. I don't know anyone who could avoid that!!!! So, like many before me, my curiosity piqued and I too heard them beckoning, "pst, come here. Look at me. You know you wanna. I have something here that will fix all your writing problems and make them go away forever, Muahaaaaaaaaaa." (Ok, maybe it goes down like this only at my house, but it does happen just like this!!! :lol::lol: ) I too have fallen prey to the grass is greener syndrome and have skipped and jumped around so much only to find myself coming back to square 1; thinking that if I'd just stuck with what made sense and worked (for me that's WWE/SWB lectures) then we'd be further along than we are now. This is especially true here because my dc are fresh out of ps where writing instruction was a total joke. Despite this, both my girls show writing promise and one of my goals is to develop their skills as organically as possible without too much teeth pulling (no need to drag it out of them at this point, tooth and nail, right?). At a student, young professional, and now mother/teacher, writing has been easy for me. My teachers/professors love me for this too. I could churn out a solid piece of writing (OFTEN the night before) with no problems. In trying to figure out how to help my dc develop solid writing skills I've given a lot of thought to the tangible reasons why I've had success. Undoubtedly, fluency in another language (Spanish is my mother tongue) has had a tremendous impact in my writing abilities. Does this make sense to any of you? Of course, I'm not suggesting that we all need fluency in another language to become fluent writers, but It's been interesting to come to this realization in myself and I will be prioritizing it in our homeschool. What this implies for me is that there are exterior factors (like learning a second [or more] language) that can heavily influence how our children develop as writers. I think that yes, we could all use some time away from these boards (and save some pocket money too). We could use said time to reflect in real time how to effectively help our children in their studies. I know this works for me. Wishing you all the best, OP, on your journey. I'd love to hear what course of action you decide to pursue.

Yeah, sigh. While I too will be supplementing the writing component, using MCT has enriched our learning experience in more ways than I could imagine.

I just spent the afternoon going over the Town materials and I'm planning on doing the same thing Capt is doing. I find there is a big jump between Island and Town. I have to keep in mind that these materials were written for the gifted where the cognitive leaps may possibly come naturally for such a child. While my dd (almost 11) picks up LA with ease she is definitely not ready for the Town writing expectations. I think she'll do better going from parts to whole with regard to writing, and from what I've read on these boards, Pattern Based Writing makes me think it'll help to bridge some gaps. I've already ordered it, read through Pattern 3, and it seems to walk the student through writing step by step. I think dd will receive it well but only time will tell. For the record, I wish I could wave a magic wand, and poof have a writer in dd ready made!

:bigear: :bigear: :bigear:

OHHHHHHH! :iagree:This make sense to me. Thank you for your comments.

Thanks for looking Capt. OK, here's how I would have her revise to make it more coherently readable: In Delphi, Greece, a stone inscription was found on an arena stone wall. This arena, dedicated to the sun god, Apollo, was the location where the ancient Pythian Games were held every four years. The actual writing (in ancient Greek) on the stone engraving states: “Wine is forbidden anywhere near the track. Any man who breaks this rule will have to make amends to Apollo by pouring a libation, offering a sacrifice and paying a 110-drachma fine, half of it to the god himself, and half to the man who has informed on him.” Perhaps a likely reason why this stone impression was made in (look up in thesaurus and insert one word synonym like engraved, etched) [the arena wall instead of a plaque is that when it is placed on a surface, there is a potential that it could become damaged in any possible way. Therefore, it is best to keep this message where no harm can come to it. Another likely reason why this plaque was placed (delete)] in the arena’s wall is (was) because it [will (delete)] portray(ed) the exact seriousness [that needs to be put in place (delete)], and the severe consequences if this law is (was) not followed. I {{{think}}} (I'll have to ask her) this is what she means to say but got lost in translation: "Perhaps a likely reason why this stone impression was made (replace with synonym) in the arena's wall was because it portrayed the exact seriousness and the severe consequences if this law was not followed. We'd work on this together with me coaching her along the way. I'll have her explain what she means to say and help her to see which sentences meet reasoning and which add nothing to her interpretation. Does this make sense?

My ego hesitates (plus, this is not about me) to write this post, but I think this is exactly what SWB means by "fuzzy thinking" leading to "fuzzy writing." In all fairness, this is the first time she has written about a primary source. I did explain that it's really no different from the STOW summaries she's used to doing but I don't think it all resonated: In Delphi, Greece, a stone inscription was found on an arena stone wall. This arena, dedicated to the sun god, Apollo, was the location where the ancient Pythian Games were held every four years. The actual writing (in ancient Greek) on the stone engraving states: “Wine is forbidden anywhere near the track. Any man who breaks this rule will have to make amends to Apollo by pouring a libation, offering a sacrifice and paying a 110-drachma fine, half of it to the god himself, and half to the man who has informed on him.” Perhaps the reason why this stone impression was made in the arenawall instead of a plaque is that when it is placed on a surface, there is a potential that it could become damaged in any possible way. Therefore, it is best to keep this message where no harm can come to it. Another likely reason why this plaque was placed in the arena’s wall is because it will portray the exact seriousness that needs to be put in place, and the severe consequences if this law is not followed. The piece will be edited, of course, but this is what I've been working with for the past couple of weeks regarding some of dd's writing. What is mind boggling is that she can write STOW summaries like the following, with no help from me, after reading and going over the review questions: The Odyssey In the poem the Odyssey by Homer, the main character, Odysseus, has angered the god Poseidon. On his long and famous journey home, Odysseus endures many mystic adventures, including an interesting encounter with a Cyclops. When Odysseus finds himself in a Cyclops’ cave, he has to use clever thinking to escape. Odysseus sharpened a long tree and plunged it into the eye of the Cyclops. The Cyclops, now blinded, unsuspectingly allows his prisoners to flee. However, Odysseus’ journey is not over yet, for it will be ten years until he returns to his homeland. This leaves me :banghead::banghead: because I don't know how to proceed with writing instruction. I've given up stressing about it. I think the "bones" are there but I need big time help with the details and figure out what to do next. I have the Town level of MCT ready to go, but I feel like we need to stop all other writing in favor of a writing "boot camp" as someone suggested in another thread. Maybe finishing out the year focusing on just writing, and not necessarily writing across the curriculum? Totally didn't mean for this to get so long winded. Thanks for :bigear:! FYI Poetry Sample: The Mission A mission needs lots of preparation Predictions, care, and dedication Preferences and sneak previews Checking precedes the joyful news

Both WTM and CM rely heavily on narration as a form of reading comprehension and its worked like a charm at our house. Are you looking for something more than this? FWIW, I also have a visual/spacial and an auditory learner and narration works equally well for both my dc.

Don't have much advice but just wanted to share that my dd is an auditory learner too. It CRAZY SCARY how much she retains this way! Although I was hoping to have her work more independently in math, and she has been, I'm beginning to realize that we just HAVE to have regular "meeting" times to talk through concepts/topics. We use MM which is not necessarily suited for an auditory learner per se but it is a very strong program. I plan to use it all the way through with both dd's but I know I need to tweak it as needed for my auditory learner. it's helped dd tremendously in the past to work through some lessons on the white board and she's even admitted that she understands better when we talk it out. This means more one on one time with her but it's incredible how much of a difference it makes. Thank goodness my other dd is visual/spacial, is VERY independent, and does't require as much hand holding as her big sister. Otherwise I'd go mad trying to juggle too many teacher intensive subjects. FWIW, I've also thought about switching math programs for dd (yes, MUS & TT came to mind) but I've been seen some recent posts where people wished they just stuck with their programs but tweaked is as needed because they can see it's not worked in their favor to switch. Because your ds has had great results with SM, maybe there's a way to make it more auditory for your son or maybe you could switch to MM which is quite similar to SM HTH

:iagree::iagree::iagree: We have been reading our way through history using STOW & TWTM book list suggestions. It is remarkable how much we are ALL learning!!! We've been studying the Greeks for the past couple of weeks and the movie Troy was on last night (very, very, late). I've seen it once before but didn't have the point of reference that I have now since "doing" history with my dd's. So, I decided to watch it again to check my knowledge against the movie (if that makes any sense) and I was AMAZED at how it all came together for me!!! It was eye opening because I realize now that this is the way I would have loved to study history the first go round and, truthfully, I feel a very cheated out of this experience. It is only now that everything is coming together for me. But, I am super excited that my girls will have that foundation which I never received.

This makes a lot of sense to me. In my OP, I was leaning towards using as part of our history studies, but originally I had thought to use it along dd's science class (which we outsourced this year).

MY visual/spacial dd7 thrives on MM. We began with RightStart A and it was a struggle to get through it because she couldn't deal with having me explain EVERYTHING to her. She literally has to SEE and if I allowed her to read the scripted text on her own, she would have taught herself the whole thing!! Well, we did finish RS and it provided a solid foundation for future skills (love, love Go to the Dump!!), but I knew that for both our sakes I'd be looking elsewhere despite the fact that I had levels B & C waiting on the shelf. I also had SM (ahem) on my shelves which I anticipated on using but I was leery of the dreaded "cognitive leaps" everybody kept talking about. Soooo, fortunately for me, MM was the flavor of the month around here at the time and I decided to give it a try. It is the best decision I've made in our homeschooling so far. It is does more than I could ever ask for both my dd's who have completely different learning styles. My dd7 is EXTREMELY independent and would prefer to do math all on her own if I would let her. MM has been awesome for that. We go over any new material in the "teaching boxes" of a lesson and then she is free to complete the work on her own. We then go over her work together and she makes any corrections needed. HTH

I've had the same question in mind for a while now. With regard to writing, what Ive read somewhere (maybe on on these boards or CM inspired method, can't remember) is to carve out separate time (maybe 1-2 x/months to start with) to go over with your child one of their compositions and model how it could be edited for mechanics, style, compound sentence structure, etc. When I read this, it made total sense to me in that it allows a cooling off period from personal attachments (for both of you) where then you and your dc can collaborate without (hopefully) much stress. In her middle grades writing lectures, SWB speaks to this...something about NOT turning every writing assignment into a marathon but cant' remember for sure. I'll get my notes and post later about this. HTH ETA: It has helped my dd10almost11 TREMENDOUSLY to type her assignments (she's learning how to type now too) so the task of editing doesn't seem too daunting.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Oh, thank, thank, thank goodness it's not just me!!!!!! Thank you all. You've made my day. Do u mind if I borrow this? This sound so much better than my usual, "Dear God, give me patience!"

LOL! You all are hilarious! I feel better now knowing for sure I'm not alone who is going (or has gone) through this. I see.....so I'm sitting on a double edge sword here? If I let her stay dumb, I won't have to worry about her arguing me under the table, but if I lead her to enlightenment, I'll have to deal with her arguing me under the table. Boy, I can't win!! Hmm. It aint' gonna be pretty round these here parts. I'm a stereotypical Taurus and dh is every bit a Leo. Interesting things to come, to say the least. :lol::lol::lol: Thanks!

Out of pure exasperation and desperation, I posted this on the high school board. Just posting it here in case any of you are going through the same thing.... "Admittedly, even the thought of coming to these boards makes me break out in hives! I can barely wrap my brain around the logic stage, let alone the rhetoric and beyond. I dont' even know if I should post this here, but it seemed as good a place as any. I'm here today to ask you btdt moms if you've actually had to teach your dc HOW to think??? A little background: This is our first year homeschooling. I have two dd, ages 10 & 7. My dd7 seems to be hardwired for critical thinking. My dd10 is totally not. I had her making oatmeal this morning and I asked her to cover the pot.....she asked, "with what?" :001_huh::001_huh::001_huh: I asked, "what do you think you should cover it with?" She said, "a paper towel?" Me said, "nooooooo, what else?" She said (after a long pause), "a plate?" Me said, "nooooooo, what else?" She said (after an even longer pause), "oh, the lid?" OMG, REALLY!! :banghead::banghead::banghead: So, those of you who have lived through this stage with your own children, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE with a child like this. Oh, and it's just not with everyday life. At the mere mention of a discussion question during school time, she goes to her shut down place and I literally have to drag every word out of her!!!!! This child has mastered the art of passive aggression/silent protest. Please tell me this will get better???? Do I just have to give this skill time to mature. I'm trying my best to be patient, but I do worry that lack of critical thinking will lead her astray and it makes me nervous, really nervous. Ahem....off the soap box now. Thanks for listening."

Admittedly, even the thought of coming to these boards makes me break out in hives! I can barely wrap my brain around the logic stage, let alone the rhetoric and beyond. I dont' even know if I should post this here, but it seemed as good a place as any. I'm here today to ask you btdt moms if you've actually had to teach your dc HOW to think??? A little background: This is our first year homeschooling. I have two dd, ages 10 & 7. My dd7 seems to be hardwired for critical thinking. My dd10 is totally not. I had her making oatmeal this morning and I asked her to cover the pot.....she asked, "with what?" :001_huh::001_huh::001_huh: I asked, "what do you think you should cover it with?" She said, "a paper towel?" Me said, "nooooooo, what else?" She said (after a long pause), "a plate?" Me said, "nooooooo, what else?" She said (after an even longer pause), "oh, the lid?" OMG, REALLY!! :banghead::banghead::banghead: So, those of you who have lived through this stage with your own children, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE with a child like this. Oh, and it's just not with everyday life. At the mere mention of a discussion question during school time, she goes to her shut down place and I literally have to drag every work out of her!!!!! This child has mastered the art of passive aggression/ silent protest. Please tell me this will get better???? Do I just have to give this skill time to mature. I'm trying my best to be patient, but I do worry that lack of critical thinking will lead her astray and it makes me nervous, really nervous. Ahem....off the soap box now. Thanks for listening.

I've read that others here do the same thing with the CDs. I never remember to do it here. It's a great idea and I'll make a note of it. :iagree:I thought it would be great for outlining too!! I'm not sure I've noticed to correlation before, but I too have a second grader and a 5th grader, both doing Ancients. This is a great idea. We are very crafty here but there never seems to be enough time to get to all those juicy activities in the AG. Thank you ladies! I too came to the conclusion that wracking my brain to align the two would be futile!! You all have great ideas and I hope you don't mind if I "borrow" some of them. :D:D With all the resources we have on hand it makes it quite painful sometimes trying to decide what to do. There are sooooo, rather toooooo many possibilities!

Thanks to these boards (ahem, and my knee jerk tendencies :lol::lol::lol:) I have amassed quite a collection of history resources. We are doing Ancients this year and due to the rave reviews here re:K12's Human Odyssey, I NATURALLY HAD to order it (I promise to better about this). Well I just got it in the mail and I LUUUUUV, LUUUUUUV IT!!!!! I've been reading through it this morning (already learning tons) and am now trying to figure out how to sync it with STOW. I'm pretty confident that dd10 (who's allergic to the mere smell of all things non-fiction) will be drawn in by the fluidity of the HO text. I dont' want to put it down. It truly reads like a story, much akin to STOW but with more depth and detail. Its a near perfect resource for acquiring those all important logic stage skills: "read, think, discuss, write (coined from another boardie, but can't remember who, sorry!)." Sooooooo, I would love some btdt advice on how you have married the two (or not) as I have a grammar stage dd7 who is following STOW. FWIW I'm planning to follow the STOW sequence. You know, actually, as I type, think, and refer to the text, I'm beginning to answer my own questions. As long as I follow the STOW sequence, they can both follow a separate spine and I won't have to worry much about lining up everything. I'm in no rush to finish by a certain date so we can take our (reasonable amount of) time on each time period. PS. I don't have neither the student pages or teacher pages that go with the text and I WILL NOT spend another hard earned penny to get one either!!! :D:D I plan to wing it ala WTM. Thanks for "listening."

Bumpity bump. These boards move very quickly. LOL. To answer your question, I really, really wanted to like Singapore. I really did. I think it's a brilliant program BUT I wanted my students to have more practice than what SM provides in the textbook and workbook alone and I really didn't want to shell out more $$ on the supplemental books. That being said, I can see how it would be a good program for the math intuitive child who just "gets" it and doesn't need additional practice. I personally feel more comfortable with more practice. Enter Math Mammoth and, voila, problems solved! Also, where SM makes conceptual leaps, MM leads the student through incremental steps. My dd's (10/11 & 7) are on opposite sides of the math spectrum and MM works well for them both. You can make it as teacher led or independent as needed as the explanations are very clear. There are PLENTY of practice problems (my older dd would say there are too many but I have her do all of them anyway) and I love the worktext approach where I don't have to fumble my way through multiple books. Hope this helps! You may want to do an MM search on these boards. There are tons of them as many here use it. Hopefully others here will see this and share more information.

Admittedly, I had a total knee jerk reaction when I read 8's post and did start to panic a bit :blushing::blushing:. I don't have the years of experience some of you have here and it's been great gleaning information on these boards from those of who with more notches on your belt. At the moment, I have to rely on curricula and the expertise of the professionals/authors who write them more than I'd like until I can sort things out for myself and feel comfortable enough to tweak it and/or go without one altogether. Soooooo, using a program like MCT has been heaven sent to me because it's delivery and style is so incredibly appealing to me and my dd. I'm off my box now. Thank you.

Oh no! Oh no! This is not good. This is not good at all. I was banking on using MCT all the way through. I had LA in the bag! WE LOVE MCT HERE!

Ok, have you read this by 8FillTheHeart: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244785 (Sorry for the no link.....can't figure it out on the IPad.....can someone link please.) I'm trying not to panic but I thought I had LA in the bag with MCT! What do you think? ETA:n/m