Your point is just that the use of wine occurs in the Bible then? I'm not trying to argue with you or anything, I just couldn't make heads or tails of your post. You used an obscure story without particular doctrinal content and seemed to be interpreting it strangely (we wouldn't be here if not for Lot's inebriation???) Thanks for clarifying.

Just seems random and irrelevant to me. Would you like to explain how it relates?

Scratching my head...what in the world does the story of Lot's daughters have to do with this discussion? Or with God? The Bible tells the stories of many people and their actions, both good and bad. There is no indication that God either commanded or condoned what these particular people did. And what does it have to do with us existing? There were plenty of other people around and having children in the days of Abraham and Lot... :huh: Just seems like a weird thing to insert into this particular discussion.

You know the PKU test done on newborns? If a baby tests positive, they are put on a special diet that prevents them from developing a terribly destructive disease. Maybe someday we will have genetic tests on newborns that can tell us specifically what diseases, including addictions and mental illnesses, the child is prone to developing. Better yet, we will know what needs to be done in terms of diet, possible gene therapy, medication, supplementation, etc. to prevent those diseases from developing. From a personal religious perspective, there is a verse in the Book of Mormon that says: "I [God] give unto men weakness that they may be humble"--my understanding has always been that this life is meant to be challenging, every one of us faces weaknesses and trials because that is how life is meant to be. God is a perfect judge because he knows exactly what our weaknesses are and what challenges and burdens we are carrying. In the end, His grace is sufficient and will make up for whatever portion of our failures in life were due to elements beyond our control. That is not saying that personal accountability is irrelevant, only that we cannot judge to what degree someone is accountable or not for particular choices/circumstances/events/failures.

Pondering both these quotes. I imagine some day we will have a much clearer understanding of the interactions between genes, environment, behavior, and disease. I suspect we will find that a great many emotional and behavioral "vices" have their root in genetic tendencies, with their expression dependent in large part on environmental and behavioral triggers. And in that we will find they are not in fact different from a great many illnesses that manifest in more obviously physical ways. My dad had a heart attack in his early fifties. He was in good shape, ran marathons, ate better-than-average nutritionally, didn't smoke or drink--but he had a heart attack. My grandfather had a heart attack in his forties--he was a very active farmer who ate mostly produce from his own farm. My great-grandmother (grandpa's mother) died of a heart attack in her fifties. Obviously there is a strong genetic predisposition towards heart disease in my family. If I go through life eating a normal, fairly nutritious diet, exercising, etc., but develop heart disease, am I a poor innocent sufferer? What if I eat at McDonald's every day and develop heart disease? What if I follow the Dean Ornish heart disease reversal diet for the rest of my life and don't develop heart disease (the diet is difficult, but my dad was able to get his health back by following it religiously)? If I take the McDonald's every day route I imagine someone could reasonably point a finger at me for bringing the disease on myself--but then what about my husband's grandfather who ate at McDonald's every day from the time he was widowed in his sixties until age 95, and died peacefully of old age two months short of his 100th birthday? Would he be considered morally superior to me because he didn't get sick and I did? Is the person who drinks socially but doesn't develop alcoholism morally superior to the one who does? If I have a genetic tendency towards addiction but was fortunate enough to be brought up in a family/religion that taught me to abstain and so never triggered that tendency, am I morally superior to the kid who grew up without such safeguards and ended up with a life ruined by substance abuse? It's complicated, isn't it?

Hold on to your Kids is a great book. I need to re-read it.

I agree that is an amazing price for a private lesson.

And does anyone have ideas for gluten-free, dairy-free snacks? I want cheese and crackers but apparently that's out...

My own experience growing up in areas with very few LDS people was quite different, the only significant support I had was from my family. Everyone in my high school smoked and drank (we were in a country where teenagers could legally buy alcohol). The only ones who didn't participate were those with religious reasons. I had a Catholic friend from Poland who did not smoke or drink--she belonged to some kind of Catholic youth organization that encouraged the kids to make a commitment not to. I don't think it would have been possible to stand up to the peer pressure in that situation if I had not developed a personal testimony and conviction by the time I was in high school. That said, I did find that my peers were generally respectful of my religiously based choices and did not pressure me to give them up. Those kids who did not have a similar motivation/explanation for avoiding harmful substances had a much harder time. I watched very sadly as one friend started drinking and later smoking (at first just taking a cigarette to "hold" so she could feel part of the group) when she had initially been determined to avoid those behaviors. I think that teenagers faced with peer pressure need stronger motivation than "it isn't good for you" to say no. For LDS kids, I actually wonder if growing up in Utah can make sticking to church standards harder--because the kid offering you the beer or the cigarette just might be LDS too and won't back down when you bring up religion as a reason not to partake.

Does your library have Signing Time? It's a good way for young kids (and moms) to learn vocabulary, but doesn't teach much grammar or other elements of the language.

That's hilarious. Happy April Fools!

A previous poster stated that the IUD functioned in such a way as to make it impossible for egg and sperm to meet. That is the claim we were responding to. If a miscarriage occurs, the egg and sperm obviously met. If a baby is conceived and carried to term the egg and sperm also obviously met. ETA: sorry if I am misunderstanding your argument. I have a tantruming toddler I'm trying to deal with so I'm sure my brain is not fully engaged. From my experience through my friends when conception occurs with an IUD miscarriage is much more likely than if it had occurred without the IUD. If that is true then many miscarriages would have to be attributed directly to the effects of the IUD.

This is the challenge we face--a lot of people can just have drink once in awhile without risking addiction--it is socially acceptable and even expected. I've always been personally grateful that I grew up in the LDS church because I strongly suspect I am the kind who would become addicted--but because of the religious values I was taught and embraced I've never taken a drink (or a smoke or anything else). I have felt ever since I was a teenager that those religious guidelines were a protection to me. Interestingly, the Word of Wisdom (the revelation that outlines the LDS health code) states that it is "adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints," --my personal interpretation of that has been that, while there may not be inherent wrong in consuming those substances that are forbidden, our individual capacity to use them without developing addictions or other problems varies so the guidance given is such that even the weakest--those most prone to develop problems--will be protected.

Thank you for the reminder. I really, really need to go to the temple--I think it's been a year. You just inspired me to call my husband at work and see if he wants to take a day off of work to make it easier for us to go together. Finding a babysitter is always the hardest part...especially with five kids! I have someone in mind, hopefully she will be available.

I have had several friends get pregnant and miscarry while using an IUD, so while they might work the way you describe most of the time, they obviously don't work all the time.

I went ahead and started a General Conference thread. Please do stop by!

Conference time is almost here! What are you doing to prepare? I don't usually do anything special, but I've always heard we should go into conference with questions in mind and pray to receive answers. I do have some things on my mind right now that I would like to receive guidance about, I am going to try keeping a journal again starting this week and through Conference and hope to find some of the inspiration I need. Having kids has really been bad for my journal writing habit.

I say we go for a separate thread. I always look forward to the General Conference threads, they help me to really engage with conference (because I get to chat about it with you all).

Thanks for all the responses. You have pretty much confirmed my instinct that NFP + barrier would be best for my situation: no un-wanted side effects or potential moral dilemmas. I have done some fertility tracking in the past when I was TTC, I've just never done it the other way around. I think I have heard the Take Charge of Your Fertility book recommended before, so I will definitely look into that.

I usually stay away from too-personal topics, but I don't know where else I could find so many women willing to share their wisdom on all kinds of topics. So here goes: I know the basics of different types of birth control, but I've never done any intensive research because I've never been in a position of needing it. I'm not super fertile and I've always wanted a large family. We're not done having kids, but dh and I both feel it might be a good time to take a break--maybe an extra year or so--before TTC again. Natural spacing for me seems to be between 2 and 2.5 years between kids (I get 12-18 months free from cycles while breastfeeding, which is fabulous); we're thinking of stretching that to 3-4 years. Don't want to wait too long because we're hoping for two more and I'm not getting any younger... I'd like to hear pros and cons of different options from those with experience. I would really like to minimize side effects. I will also be breastfeeding, and I know some BC is not good for that. We may just work with NFP + barrier methods, especially since I'm not super worried about an "accident" (i.e., if it happens that's fine), but I want to consider other options as well. :bigear:

He is risen! https://www.lds.org/topics/easter?lang=eng

Death is conquered, Man is free Christ has won the Victory

Could it be you're allergic to the coconut oil?

I know two young men who graduated with BS degrees at 18 or 19, one in mathematics and the other in molecular biology. Both were LDS, so they took the next two years to serve as missionaries overseas. I think that worked out fabulously--they were challenged by the mission experience and learning a new language (Mandarin and Japanese, respectively), got a lot more life experience under their belt, and were ready to jump into graduate school when they came back at age 21, just slightly ahead of their peer group. Both had graduate school acceptances before they left. I wonder if a similarly experience-intense gap period could work out for other young college graduates?

I have an example from a friend in Texas. When her daughter was in 3rd grade, her math homework every day was test-prep bubble sheets. The math program for the entire year was "how to pass the state math test at the end of the year". The students were taught lots of tricks and tips for getting the right answer on the test. What they weren't taught was understanding and competency in math. After the test was over there were three weeks left of school. The teacher sent home a letter saying that all the children who could memorize their multiplication facts in the next three weeks could participate in a pizza party. Umm, there are three weeks left in 3rd grade and NOW they tell the kids to go memorize their multiplication facts? Of course there was no time before--they were busy teaching them how to take the tests!