I agree with being flexible without having to push them out of the nest early (unless they happen to really mature early and are ready). But there are other ways to deal with this *without* lying. I list my kids with the state as "ungraded," an option the state actually provides us officially. For my kids, the freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior years of school will simply be the last four years of school that they completed before we decide that they are ready to graduate and move on. Although we will have to make some decisions because of SAT testing/NMSQT, generally speaking, we feel no need, not being in a school system managing hundreds of kids, to declare our kids to be in a particular grade prior to graduation. There is no deception or unethical behavior intended; we just find it to be completely inapplicable to the homeschool milieu. We'll have to go back and re-engineer the last four years prior to graduation the four "high school" years, no matter how old my kids happen to be at the time, because that is what colleges expect to see on application forms and will know how to process. We'll keep records as we go, so nothing wil be invented, made up, or dishonest. It isn't our fault (or really our problem) that we don't happen to live our entire lives around somebody else's fill in the blank forms and checkboxes.

This was the case back in the day in my high school, but it was made clear that admissions officers would recalculate the GPA minus any courses actually taken prior to high school. Your high school GPA is just that-- grades earned during high school.

I feel like my home practically IS a curriculum fair. Now I just need to convince SWB to stop in for tea-- instant home convention. No controversies over whether she is <fill in your controversial criterion of choice> enough, I promise. We're classical, mostly secular homeschoolers who happen to also be Christians, but we're very inclusive toward how other people think and live their lives. Hah!

Thanks, good to know! It will probably take most of this coming year for him to finish LL2 (they don't call it "the big book" for nothing! LOL!) but I like to know "what comes next?"

"How do you make them review vocab/etc with the ipad version?" I am starting my kiddos on it in the fall. One prefers the print version, the other, who has dysgraphia, has already said he prefers the ipad version. I bought myself the ipad version to get a jump-start on them. My plan is to work ahead, and simply converse with them from the book, and periodically quiz them myself. Can't be that hard, right? :). We do it in Latin! We also have several Spanish-speaking kids in our church. I may find out if any of them need tutoring in any subjects, and maybe arrange a swap-- they come speak Spanish with my kids in exchange for say, math tutoring.

What about moving into this series after Lively Latin 2?

Here are quite a few of them. If you need more explanation of any, just let me know! http://hillandalefarmschool.blogspot.com/2012/05/math-by-seat-of-your-pants.html

DS12 is finishing what some would consider to be sixth grade/second year of logic stage. DS9 is finishing what some would consider to be fourth grade/finishing grammar stage.

I asked my 12YO to respond directly. He says he feels that in the overall balance, there is relatively little time spent on saints and missionaries-- only when it is relevant to the development of history (particularly in ancient and medieval times, when studying particular parts of the world, the developments of not only Christianity, but Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other religions had a definite hand in shaping geopolitics and really cannot be avoided; and as these things still influence world events today, they should probably be understood). I do feel that it goes into a fair amount of depth; the program does not rely upon just one text (I would never rely on just vanLoon anyway; we have learned much since he wrote that book, and he had his own biases, and it needs to be offset with additional reading, which History Odyssey also provides). Now, my son is a serious history buff. He constantly picks up more history books at the library, and I picked up, secondhand, the K12 Human Odyssey books vols 1-3 from Amazon on the cheap, and he is enjoying reading those on the side (very easy to match up; just look in the table of contents, find the appropriate chapter, and read what matches the lesson). He loves watching the "Horrible Histories" videos on YouTube, and reading the "You Wouldn't Want to Be A . . ." books, in addition to the extra books in the HO schedule. I asked him, "What if we didn't get you all those supplemental materials? Would history Odyssey still give you a lot of detail and be good enough?" He said, "Absolutely. The way it makes me take notes and what it makes me read has plenty of information in it!"

Have you continued to sit and discuss the practice sentences with him, or does he just check them himself? I think the discussion part remains really key during the logic stage. When we do this, I will ask, "How would this sentence sound if the author didn't bother to use the appositive? What if that information had to be stuck into the next sentence?" "Why might the author have begun the sentence with that phrase, instead of with the subject? How would it sound if we reworded it in a more straightforward sentence? Do we gain power or lose power in this case?" "What happens if we lose half the adverbs from this sentence? Do we improve it or do we lose something?" Sometimes, we agree with the author; sometimes we find we can improve the clarity of a sentence (now we do not have the surrounding context, and I point this out from time to time). After enough of doing that, when we are ready to revise his work, we can look at a sentence that isn't working, and we can discuss, intelligently, whether a varied sentence opener (he has also done IEW) would improve things or cloud things. Should he look for a few well-chosen adverbs or adjectives, and then use those to eliminate superfluous subsequent sentences? What about an appositive? Will that add or subtract? You don't mention how many years in a row you have done truly solid grammar work. We have completed two very solid years of grammar, and I have decided that next year, we will take a break. We'll do a sentence practice book (in our case, DS12 has only done Magic Lens, so I'll give him the Voyage practice book) and we will spend our extra time on writing-- we plan to use Bravewriter and continue IEW. Bravewriter reinforces punctuation and other mechanics, another aspect of grammar that MCT doesn't spend as much time on. We'll head back to MCT after this year, and I think we'll be just fine from a grammar standpoint, with the practice book to keep the ideas fresh. Good luck figuring out what will work for you! Jen

If your budget is tight, you can skip it and wait a year. If you try to use primarily secular materials, you cans skip it and wait a year. Prima Latina will be a nice first exposure to vocabulary, in a pretty manageable format. It is very logical and well-laid out, and will not be a waste of time; it does not take long to work on daily, even with vocabulary review (we did not memorize all the Latin prayers). It is a well-done program for introducing Latin. It can be skipped if you have other things you'd rather do with your time or money. I will say that with any language, the earlier it is introduced, the better it will take in the long run, but I am not sure that this will be the case when so little grammar is being introduced; he will not be speaking dialogues with it or anything in PL, or translating stories in it at that level. Other options for the intervening year: a Latin-based vocabulary program, such as Caesar's English, which will introduce them to about 50 Latin stems and 50 great Latin-related vocabulary words across 20 lessons (10 each of 5 stems and 5 vocabulary words in alternating weeks). CE will also make comparisons between words in English, Latin, and Spanish for interest. Or there is the comic-book style story Minimus, which comes with a teacher guide and is based around real items excavated from a site near Hadrian's Wall. Written in Latin for younger kids, it gives vocabulary words on each page and pictures with the text to help decipher it. It's a fun way to introduce Latin and gain some introductory familiarity with how it works. You can take it as slowly as you like, and not insist that they master all of it, but learn some of the vocabulary and just get the exposure to it early as a primer for starting Lively Latin the following year.

We have used History Odyssey for 2 full years now. I showed my kids a few other options, and they looked at me and said, "Mom, please, we love History Odyssey, don't change that!" We DO skip the History pockets, as my kids are not cut and paste and color kinds of guys :). I have one who is a bit of a history buff, and he has all kind of add-on books around the house, but many of those are also recommended in History Odyssey. He also reads his way through K12's Human Odyssey. I love that it gives you a checklist, but you don't have to do everything on it; if something isn't a good fit, just don't do it (like the pockets). It also provides a pretty comprehensive additional reading list with each unit. HO is one curriculum I think we will be able to use all the way through without worrying about the "one publisher bias" effect, because we can add in as many reading resources as we like. It's a guide, not a textbook. Additionally, the program provides a very gradually ramped up writing and research program, moving from simple sentences into paragraphs and then into library research projects and outlining and then into papers, with guided steps the whole way. They really show the students directly how to take notes, find and store the important information when reading, and how to record it. They have a few books explicitly assigned, and include some literature guide type assignments, such as plot diagrams and character webs, helping the student learn to read critically and deal with more complex books, both fiction and non. It is a very complete program, and I do appreciate the longitudinal thoughtfulness of it.

Lively Latin follows Prima Latina very well. LL gets into far more grammar and more vocabulary as well as the art, history, and geography components. A few vocabulary words will be repeated, but that is a good thing, for reinforcement.

Have you looked at Hands on Equations? it looks at early algebraic concepts an a very hands on manner, and it is reinforcing the more basic number relationships at the same time (and it motivates DS9 in terms of why these more basic math facts will be important later). It sounds as if you have a great plan for this summer-- go back and solidify the math facts they should be solid in before plowing on. I can't think of any good reason not to go with Singapore. We use Singapore and supplement with Life of Fred for my just finishing grammar stage son. I absolutely love how Singapore PM (I have the US edition) presents the geometry concepts in level 5B-- we are constantly cutting out shapes and folding them around and fitting angles together to understand how all those relationships work. My 9YO is devouring it. We play games (as I have described elsewhere) with everyday objects all the time. You can do a lot with a box of 100 colored pencils. How many ways can you make ten? 24? How many piles can you divide 24 pencils into with none left over? How many different ways can you do this? If you divide 24 pencils into 4 piles, how many are in each pile? I made a set of flash cards, and we play the "Penny game" a lot. Lay out the cards in an array, flip the coin. Whichever card the penny lands upon is the question you must answer within 3 seconds. Get it right, you get to keep the card. Get it wrong, you flip it back over (person guessing flips over the card-- it helps with retention). If one person is trying to learn, then when all the cards are gone, the learner keeps his cards, everyone else puts them back in the array again, and play repeats until the learner has won all the cards (or at least a certain number. After a point, I make older brother drop out of the game, gracefully). For DS9, finishing the LOF elementary set and checking off his math facts carried the huge incentive of being permitted to start Life of Fred: Fractions.

We use and like the US Edition. My husband is a math professor, and he likes what we're doing in homeschooling. True, there has been no "formal" introduction of negative numbers yet (DS9 is finishing up 5B) but he uses negative numbers quite easily, including in multiplication and division, and really has not needed a special chapter of a book to teach him what to do-- he found it pretty obvious. We prefer the two-tone text, and DS was happy when the full-color was dropped when we reached level 3. I have heard there is even MORE review in the Standards edition, and we find the amount of review in the US edition to already be absolutely overkill-- for our family, there is no need for more. We have no issue with the HIG's either way. So for us, the US Edition is great :) Take anything you read on the boards about "Oh, such and such is far superior" with a grain of salt. Look at the reasons WHY people like something better and see if that is important to your family or not. We also happen to love Life of Fred, which depending upon how well your kids work with it and whether you work the program correctly or not, you'll either love or hate. It has a ton of fantastic math in it-- whether your family can get the math that's there . . . depends on whether you match well with it. Whether you need the Standards Edition or enjoy the US Edition in Singapore PM will depend upon your preference for full color, whether you need a certain type of hand-holding from the HIG, and whether your kids need a whole lot of review, and whether they need certain concepts presented explicitly prior to seeing it in logic stage mathematics; it has nothing to do with the actual quality of the program. You'll find that the US Edition is quite good :).

Awesome! I will have to look for it!

NOEO chem 1 was awesome with my third grader last year. It is packed with hands on. We looked at the bio this year and went another direction because it didn't look nearly as good as the chem. If you want to supplement, I suggest looking at the science wiz kits. They are fantastic, work very well, and come with everything you need except water, a 9V battery, etc. but nit picky stuff like feathers, paper clips, test tubes, prisms, waxed paper, etc are supplied. The only thing you might need is the DNA kit requests denatured alcohol; you will do just fine by freezing 70% isopropyl alcohol (the stuff you clean cuts and earrings with). Those kits are fantastic and will definitely get done!

Are you doing this with or without the HIG? You should be introducing every lesson with hands on activities before opening the textbook. Is there a specific level and chapter where you are stuck on coming up with ideas on how to present things in a concrete fashion? If you are already doing this, you might want to add a fun book, such as Penrose the Mathematical Cat. It has thin "story" of the cat owned by a mathematician, who is constantly investigating his mistresses papers and chatting about them with the mouse in the wall, etc. There are two books in this series by Theoni Pappas, and they are great :). Kids from grades 3--7 can have fun with these books (with a parent when younger, independently for older kids) and will be cutting things out, solving problems, and having a lot of fun with these short, hands-on lessons. Another way to go for mathematically adept kids is to check out elements of mathematics online. There is a free assessment test to see whether the program is a good fit for your child-- the assessment test is CRAZY!! LOL tell your kids to try their best and not just treat it as a silly game, because they can only take it once! :D. But if they do qualify, unit one is all set about using different base numbers and applying that skill to cryptography-- the entire unit is based in a storyline about having to be a spy. It is very, very cool. It is very mind-stretching, and won't e a great fit for every kid, but for those for whom it works, it's awesome. DS12 has been having fun with it as a supplement to Fred. DS9 qualified to take it as well, but I held off on enrolling him for now, since he has enough on his plate, but he is very creative in his thinking, and will enjoy it more in a year or so. If you tell us more about where you are stuck, and whether you are using the HIG, we can help you more, but there are a few other ideas to chomp on in the meantime. Forgive any eggregious errors or typos. I should probably not be posting at this time of night.

DS9 has taken to daydreaming quite a bit. He assures me he is being quite creative, but doesn't want to share. Nosy Mom asked one day, "Do I get to find out where you go so often?" He replied, "Oh Mom, I know you're really smart too, but the daydream isn't about me; it's about other stuff, and trust me, it's way too advanced for you to keep up." ==:o Did I just get an amazing blw-off from my 9YO, or should I be wondering what is going on in that head??? (That is rhetorical) I am ROFL

I can't see the second grader doing anything more than listening along, but my fifth grader is currently taking a short break from Rosetta Stone to work through Usborne Easy German. The "Easy" part is a slight misnomer-- the grammar portions are kind of dense-- but they are explicitly explained, and then demonstrated in the comic-booky mystery story on every other page, written in all German (with a vocabulary list to go with each two-page spread). We are going slowly through the book-- we start with me reading it out loud, and translating as we go; then we read it (another day) and they have to translate it (looking at the word list on the right if they need to, though the pictures help a lot). Then they read it out loud while I translate it. Then they both read it out loud and translate it for me. Then I read it out loud, and ask them to silently translate it in their heads. Then I quiz them on the vocabulary-- nouns, verbs, phrases, and other parts of speech. Nouns are, as in any standard German text, presented in singular with plural markers and gender. Each comic spread is preceded by a grammar lesson, and the comic, while moving the compelling story forward, demonstrates that bit of grammar, such as use of the dativ case. The text is good about explaining things like what grammatical constructs are used more often in writing vs in speech (ie Monikas Katze vs das Zimmer von Monika) (forgive me if I goofed something there; I'm really tired . . .). The grammar may well go over your 5th grader's head in places, but the practice in speaking in dialogues will help get the rhythm of the language down, and the vocabulary and phrases are useful (introductions, food, colors, speaking on the telephone, rooms in the house, etc). It's one option. I will check back in here myself to see what else people suggest. We'll go back to Rosetta Stone after this, but in another year, we'll want something else just for variety.

Thanks for finding that link! I kept searching incorrectly!

Hugs! Hey, hunt around for it . . . there is a podcast or blog by Susan Wise Bauer, who talks about how SHE wishes she had put one of her own kids in public school!! If SWB can say it would have been right for one of her kids, then on these boards it can hardly be a traitorous thing to say, right??? It's about what is right for your family and your kiddo! Goodness, I wish I could find that link for you . . .

One text that is not expensive (I know you already said you had a few) and is well organized for a faster review is Tobey and Slater. At the end of each chapter there is a chapter test, and at the end of several chapters there is a cumulative review. You could have him take each chapter test and see how he does. The nice part is that when you grade it, in the back of the book answer key, each question notes precisely which section the question was primarily testing. If you see a pattern to missed responses, then you can review just that section with him instead of the entire chapter. When you turn to that section, you will likely find not only very clear writing and nice examples and problem sets, but an end of section quiz (only about four problems). If there were several problematic sections, instead of retaking the chapter test, you can either rely on the problem sets to have done the work, or simply take the cumulative test that follows the chapter test. The text does take time to point out common problems students have and WHY these problems don't work the way you might think they will, reinforcing again the correct underlying concept originally taught, a nice feature. A former tutor for college students, I agreed with many of these points as places where students often stumbled, even supposed "A" students who scored well on the AP test! The book is available pretty inexpensively on Amazon if you purchase it used and go back an edition or two. No teacher edition is needed; the answers and tests are built right into the text. Nice deal. I would normally recommend Fred, but you sounded as if you wanted to accelerate this process somewhat. If this works great, and then if you still feel he needs a confidence builder, he can work a month or two behind in Fred, which is a fantastic curriculum text as well. My husband is a math professor, and he wishes his students would come to University knowing even half of what is taught in Fred, from a conceptual point of view. Fred is great at teaching the "why" behind the algebra rather than working on just the algorithms, and at making sure students can apply their knowledge to novel situations, instead of just plugging in numbers to the same problem over and over. DH can always quickly tell which students scored A's in school by simply memorizing things well without bothering to understand much about what they were doing.

You could also take a middle school year (perhaps 8th grade) to do the AoPS courses Introduction to Counting and Probability and Introduction to Number Theory. The time would be well-spent, not wasted, and would give a respite from charging onward and upward, and just might spark an interest in math.

We bought a pretty inexpensive set of foam discs in our local ed supply store. Big numbers are not cumbersome at all, because the essential idea is redistributing tens.