Yeah, it's a tough call. If the teacher puts her to sleep it may be a no go. I definitely factor that as even to this day I recall boring teachers vs. engaging ones and what a difference that made for me and the entire class. Not that everything needs to be exciting and fun but having the ability to connect with students at a certain level is important, IMO. That said I think this also does vary per student. So some may love these classes or at least mentally connect with them and the presentation style. I've definitely heard worse before in homeschool circles as well as the brick and mortar classroom environment. Regarding jumping the gun I'm also a planner. What I recommend doing when you get closer is to simply show her a few different samples from a list you've narrowed to lets say 2 or 3 options. Then let her tell you which she feels works better for her. It helps when allowing kids to participate in such decisions. It also give them a greater sense of ownership which is especially helpful when it gets more difficult. I love the quote by RBK mama's son regarding Duke's TIP lectures, BTW: "Mom, this could kill someone! Death by boredom." :D :p

Hi Lisa. Thanks for sharing your experience. They actually offer a downloadable sample which my wife reviewed. She is pretty happy overall with the style and approach I think. It's mainly just the user friendliness of the program that was her original concern. But this has at least been addressed in part with the latest edition (5th). We'll probably give it a go and then reevaluate after the first course where to go from there.

Geometry TABLETCLASS Textbook: None Online Class? Yes Where to buy: http://www.tabletclass.com/courses/geometry.aspx Teacher Guide/Additional Materials: Everything online Placement: No Sample: Free demo: http://www.tabletclass.com/homeschool/overview.aspx JURGENSEN WILSON HILL ACADEMY: Textbook: Geometry by Jurgensen, Brown, and Jurgensen. ISBN 9780395977279. Copyright 2000. Online Class? Live interactive class which meets 2x/week for 90 minutes per class session Where to buy: http://www.wilsonhillacademy.com/academics/geometry/ Teacher Guide/Additional Materials: May want Jurgensen solutions manual. Also an electronic pen/tablet is needed along with microphone. Placement: No Sample: DUKE TIP: Textbook: Geometry (2000 edition), by Ray C. Jurgensen, Richard G. Brown, and John W. Jurgensen. ISBN 0395977274. Online Class? CDs Where to buy: http://tip.duke.edu/node/159 Teacher Guide/Additional Materials: Graphing calculator, preferably a Texas Instruments TI-83 Plus, TI-83, or TI-82 Placement: No Sample: No MATH IN A BOX: Textbook: Geometry by Jurgensen, Brown, Jurgensen published 2000 by Houghton Mifflin, McDougal Littell. The ISBN is 0395977274. Online Class? Yes, asynchronous classes which can be started at any time. Assignments graded daily. Where to buy: http://www.mathinabox.com/ClassRegisInformPages/Geometrypage.html Teacher Guide/Additional Materials: No Placement: No Sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zj50_nbaVg

Here are some more Algebra 1 providers. These same vendors have multiple math subjects like others. I'll add those as well. ALGEBRA 1 TABLETCLASS Textbook: None Online Class? Yes, students listen to lessons. Then they work problems with paper/pencil as apposed to online. Where to buy: http://www.tabletclass.com/courses/algebra.aspx Teacher Guide/Additional Materials: Everything online Placement: No Sample: Free demo: http://www.tabletclass.com/homeschool/overview.aspx WILSON HILL ACADEMY: Textbook: Algebra: Structure & Method Book 1, 2000, by Richard Brown and Mary Dolciani (ISBN 9780395977224) Online Class? Live interactive class which meets 2x/week for 90 minutes per class session Where to buy: http://www.wilsonhillacademy.com/academics/algebra/ Teacher Guide/Additional Materials: May want Dolciani solutions manual. Also an electronic pen/tablet is needed along with microphone to interact with class. Placement: No Sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D78kdBqppLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yitswq-dzRs ETA: I just noticed you included WHA under Dolciani. I'll leave this here in case someone wants more info.

I think with mutual respect and humility we can an all learn from each other. And that is the tone of the WHA teacher and classroom in our experience. BTW, I noticed classes are already filling up. My son's Algebra 2 appears to be on waiting list only now. That was fast! Apparently the word has been getting out.

Thanks, Happyhome. It sounds like LToW is working very well for you and your DD. I'm glad we can help each other out here. I must admit that when I first heard the term 'Hive' it sounded a little weird to me, like the Borg ship from the old Star Trek or something else SciFi. :D But 'the collective' works so well it's amazing. Most of the stuff I know regarding these topics I've learned from someone else or through personal experiences, many times both. So it only seems natural to pass it along. I guess it goes back to the old 'two heads are better than one' proverb. ;) Last question (at least for now anyway). If my wife teaches LToW 1 next year and then we wanted DS to take a class would we roll into the LToW 2 class after completion? Is that what you did? I noticed you mentioned your DD responds better to the feedback in their classroom environment. Thanks again,

Yes, thank you Quark! I'll try to chime in also once we have a template. I love to see the combined knowledge and BTDT experiences that the hive has to share with things like this. Having things centralized is especially useful when not really sure where to start. In addition it also helps when one has exhausted all of their resources only to discover 'other' good options exist.

Hi 1togo, This really epitomizes what the WTM forum is all about, doesn't it? So many folks on here willing to help each other out. We basically pass on whatever contribution we can make, whether it be small or large. Then everyone benefits. It never ceases to amaze me how much combined knowledge and BTDT insight is available. I'm glad things are working out well for your youngest DC with TC and John Zimmerman. He really has a heart for teaching kids math. All the best,

I've never heard of Susan O Johnsey's Math in a Box before. But in checking out her website it looks promising. It's definitely affordable for an online class. And it looks like she grades the work as well which not all will do. A teacher's presentation style is also an important consideration. Some teachers simply do not connect well with certain students while others are harder to follow. I couldn't easily find a sample lesson video on her website. But in doing a more extensive search found her on youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zj50_nbaVg In reviewing her lessons online I find them relatively easy to follow. If you do decide to move forward with the course I recommend playing a few video samples for your DD. That can help gauge how well your DD will respond to her instruction style. Duke's TIP program also offers an asynchronous Geometry course based upon Jurgensen with DVD lessons. Though I have not found samples of their lessons.. In addition I don't think they offer grading or further assistance if the student has questions or other issues. If that is the case it would seem that Susan offers more. Just curious, how did you find her? I don't see any mention of her program on the WTM forum. So you may be the first which I know can be a bit scary. But if everything checks out and it meets your asynchronous requirements among other important aspects then it may be worth giving a try. Please report back if you do. I'm not sure you will find someone here with direct experience. You could also ask her for some references from existing or prior student families.

That sounds good, Halcyon. I'm discovering through all this research that there are a number of good options for middle and high school students. Some families even combine several programs either at different times or together. I may use a combination like this as well. I'm thinking more of one program followed by another for now anyway. I'm also also seeing the benefits of outsourcing in having a third party who is trusted speak into the lives of our children as they grow and discover their world To be honest writing has never been my strength. I'm more of a math/science guy, naturally anyway. But I can't help but see the value in developing good writing skills even in STEM careers. Many times engineers are called upon to document the work they do. In addition college students need to write many papers while in school regardless of major. So I'm trying to research these areas to a greater extent now. Of course my wife does a good job with them and makes up for some of my shortcomings. But I'm the research nut of the family. :tongue_smilie: I'm glad to see you are finding solutions that work for your son and your schedule. That project based program he is in sounds like something you were looking for as well.

Wow, 1togo, this is very insightful information! Thank you. You've used *both* programs we are looking strongly at for high school. It really helps to hear from parents who have gone through these programs with their children. I have been wondering about the 5th addition of LToW since my wife is concerned about it being difficult to teach. I know they tried to really re-work the curriculum to make it more teacher friendly. Since you use both programs with your children I am wondering if you think it matters which a student goes over first? I am thinking either could be beneficial and complimentary to the other. It seems like they focus on different but important approaches to writing. I noticed you mention both your older and younger are taking BraveWriter classes. Do you do any tailoring based on age level and/or existing skill sets, one being further along and more mature than another? Thanks again,

Hi All, We are planning a Hawaiian family vacation this Fall. As such we would like to hear any experience other folks have had with cool things to do and see on Kauai with children (9,10,13). We primarily enjoy the outdoors including waterfalls, beaches, body boarding, snorkeling and hiking. Of course anything historic or cultural would be of interest as well. My wife and I have been there once on our anniversary decades ago in the Winter. But it rained the entire time and was actually cold. So this time we want to try to time it better and go just after Summer (late Sept/early Oct). Thanks for any ideas or input,

Hi Halcyon! Long time no talk. I see your son is still using TC 'and' AoPS. Wow, that sounds like a pretty intense combo. Our son is in the same boat (average writer, looking for something for next year) and so we are actually researching similar things. Only ds13 will be starting high school next year. So I posted questions on the high school forum and got some great BTDT input which we are exploring further. I'll provide the links in case you haven't seen them yet. I know your son is younger. But many times there is cross over between 8th and 9th grade writing courses/programs: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/542164-high-school-writing-program-options/ http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/541323-brave-writer-supplemental-or-complete-program/ http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/542232-lost-tools-of-writing-experiences/?p=6189469 So far we are considering both online classes and curriculum my wife would teach at home. We've heard great things about LToW including one of the best approaches to deriving quality content or invention and developing a style or elocution. A great read is the comparison which Ruth made of many of the primary programs here: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/348864-my-evaluation-of-numerous-writing-curricula/ Here is one of the LToW online classes available: http://coramdeotutorials.com/courses/introduction-to-essay-writing/

Brenda, All of this detail really helps to fill in the blanks for us. You really painted a nice picture of what a normal schedule looks like for you and your family. So thank you for taking the time to do so. It is much appreciated.

Yes, Sarah, it does help. Thank you! I'm glad to see that there are several good options for us to choose from. My wife is also considering LToW as well based upon some positive feedback we've received on the latest edition.

Thanks, Sarah. It's good to hear how others are using BraveWriter for a full year program. How do your dds like BraveWriter? Do you use the classes primarily? If one were to go through KWI and EE during the first semester do you think simply using BCC by itself would be enough for a high school student? I know you said you also go through grammar. It would seem that some additional writing may be needed for our son during the second semester, maybe some literary analysis with a writing component in addition to BCC.

Julzar, Thank you. This is very helpful. My wife is encouraged to know they have revised their curriculum in part at least to try to make it easier to teach. I will relay this information to her regarding prep time. But that doesn't sound too bad. I'll also check the LToW Yahoo Group. She is also wondering what additional materials are required to use for the program? For example, the samples reference certain works of literature such as Narnia. Is their a select list of classical books one needs to aquire? Thanks again,

Interesting, do you recall which version you were using at the time? They have just done a major update which is the 5th edition now. Thanks,

Yes, I did see their classes as well as the Circe Institute. My wife is hoping to find a more affordable option. But if she can't teach we still may go with one of these online classes. The Corum Deo tutorials course time unfortunately conflicts with another online course for the Fall.

Hi all, I would appreciate it if you would share with me some of your experiences, both good and bad with the program - online or curriculum. We are considering the LToW during our High School years. I have heard that it's hard to teach from a number thread searches. However there are claims that the latest edition is easier. Can someone describe a bit more what a typical day looks like for you? How much work/prep time is required of you, the teacher? Can this be done somewhat independently? I'm just trying to gauge how difficult this would be for my wife while teaching our two younger dds who require more of her time. It's a real balancing act for her. That is why ease of use is important and student independence is also a consideration. As an alternative I've heard great things about the online courses. I'd enjoy hearing more about what a class is like such as Classical Rhetoric: Lost Tools of Writing, Level One. What is the interaction with the instructor and other classmates like, if any? What is the level of difficulty/challenge, including time demands? Which teachers have you had? Thanks,

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Carol. I agree with you about needing literature as well.

Hi Julie, I actually posted a separate thread inquiring about Brave Writer. Can you share a bit about how you have used it? Do you use their curriculum, take the classes or both? The courses I've been considering for High School are: Kidswrite Intermediate Expository Essay You can also buy the curriculum and teach it yourself. From what I've heard and seen so far it's not really a complete curriculum, more like short courses. I guess you could string together some combination of things over a year and call it high school writing.

Thanks, Yvonne. I am definitely looking into those classes. I'll also look at TPS as well.

Thanks, Charlottweb. We have a number of friends who use IEW as well. It sounds like it has worked well for your son. Glad to hear it. One of our primary concerns with IEW, which appears to be an often stated critique of the program, is its more formulaic approach to writing along with less emphasis on original thought or invention. Maybe at the high school level these courses provide a bit more of those elements? I really enjoyed reading Ruth's post comparing these major programs here: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/348864-my-evaluation-of-numerous-writing-curricula/. That is not to say that formulas or patterns are bad in and of themselves. And many college English teachers expect to see the 5 paragraph essay, etc... Thanks for sharing your experience.

Thanks, LivingHope. It seems like *every* review I've read on the curriculum comments on it being difficult to teach and therefore time consuming. If you don't mind can describe a bit more what a typical day looks like for you? How much work/prep time is required of you, the teacher? Are you naturally skilled/gifted in writing and English? Can this be done somewhat independently? I'm just trying to gauge how difficult this would be for my wife while teaching our two younger dds who require more of her time. It's a real balancing act for her. That is why ease of use is important and student independence is also a consideration. ETA: I just noticed you have 8 children. So you either have super powers or are doing something right. ;) Thanks,