Yes Danielle...the formula. And I still feel inadequate at my children's faults and failures even though my oldest is almost 28! I really do not believe there is any real recipe, but love, relationship and loads of grace are more than sufficient. I learned to respect myself and my children, imperfections and all ;-) And thank you so much for sharing. It sounds like you have some pretty great parents!

Thanks!! I was not talking about toy guns or books possessing demonic qualities...lol! I was not even really focused on purging...that was sort of tongue in cheek. Those sexist, racist materials never lasted too long past my front door...whether they were supposedly christian or secular or whatever...no room at the inn for garbage.....and as far as hysteria...nope, not from me. Oh, we kept our Davy Crockett rifles and coon skin caps. My daughters loved them. ;-)

My problem, in a nutshell with this stuff is it is not forthcoming. IOW, we have been sold goods which say they are one thing, but are truly another. This is not a purge all bad things post.... Mine is more of a What the heck???post. I am not talking about the books and materials that come right out and say" we are a conservative Christian curriculum and this is our belief ( A Beka, Bob. Jones, Christian Light etc.). And yeah, some of those books make me want to bleach my brain, but I know and you know what they stand for. A Beka is nonabashedly patriotic and Christian. They are creation science. No surprises. CLE is Mennonite... Head covering, pacifist unabashedly Christian. Ok. I can certainly see where they are at. No surprises of any big deal..... I can work within the parameters of their books.... Or not as I see fit. I am not talking about these books. I am not talking about banned books, or books that have ideas contrary to my own. I am a big girl. I know what I wish to spend time on what what either gets shelved or trashed or skipped over. I am not freaked out by too much and I am WAY more liberal than most of my Christian friends and probably more liberal than many of my non Christian friends. I do not think the books have some kind of spirituality where they are going to jump off the shelf and have my wild child come to the dinner table in a suit and tie! What I AM saying is DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!! These books are not harmless. The curricula sold by these companies are not pure and simple. There is an underlying theme. Know it is there. Deal with it as you like. I had no idea! The damned books did not come with a warning or a user manual. I am sure there are new homeschoolers and new Christians who would see these books as wholesome. As a map of how to lead their families. I almost feel it would be morally wrong NOT to have this conversation! The surface seems so kind and loving and wholesome and moral and oh so GODLY.! Their goal is to get the new Christian. The one who is seeking to know Him. Their goal is wicked to the nth degree. Why would I EVER want to put one more cent toward their agenda??? Why would anyone?? Why wouldn't I want to tell my sister in The Lord to run like all getout from this lie from the pit of hell?? The toy gun has nothing to do with this other than a purchase. You know this is a crummy company. Buy your toy guns somewhere else :-). There is a plethora of curricula out there. Buy with a discerning eye. Modify if you need to./ toss when warranted. No one is saying to get hysterical. Or that dolls or books are possessed. Guilt by association happens. Be careful who your friends are ;-). I know I am not the only one on this board or out there in homeschool land who is just pissed about these people setting themselves up as our voice or our face. This is what our homeschool convention looked like 15 years ago. I could never bring myself to go to another so I have no idea what it looks like now. When I didn't know I couldn't do better. Now I know. Sorry this is so disjointed. I am in my phone and writing while I wait for kids.

And even worse....how many have completely walked away...,or ran away from Christianity, because THIS is it's public face??

I really agree here. Where are all those To Train Up a Child books now? Where? Mine is in the wood stove, but what about the thousands sent overseas or to military families, or very young new Christians, trying to be GOOD Christians?? I bought it! I wanted to be good. I wanted my kids to have good, honest, moral Christ filled lives. I wanted structure in our chaos. I wanted stability in our unstableness. I wanted a family where we could avoid the hurts and pitfalls around us.....and the Pearls, Ezzos, Gothard, etc.offered that. Displayed it. Held it out like a carrot on a stick. I believed most of what they said. I never did much of what they suggested because it was not in my nature. ( I am an attachment, bf on demand, non spanking parent) so, I felt I had blew it when my kids acted like.....kids. I felt demeaned and devalued as a woman and a mom because I could not even follow the damn formula correctly! Then when I had a 2nd trimester miscarriage, I really believed it was from my own sin and I deserved to lose my precious baby. This is the crap they purport. This is what they sell and make a wonderful living off. This is preying on the weak and vulnerable in the most disgusting way! My family never went to an ATI seminar. This mindset was pervasive in the Christian homeschool movement of the early 90's. We were prime for the taking. We didn't want our kids " ruined" by secular schooling. We didn't want moral decay in our homes. We were seeking other answers....and when you seek, you better be wearing some awesome armor....because " There are giants in the land! "

Agree.

Sunday took dd to the gym and did 2 quick circuit rounds, then I ran 3 on the treadmill and she rode a spin bike. Monday, spin class followed by sculpt class.

Barf! ( wish I could use the emoticons on my iPad! )

Well, yes and no. The issue is the subversive material that pervades the movement led by Gothard. Notice, if you will...not ONE SINGLE DEFENDER in either thread. Of his materials, his mission, his goals in " ministering" to the Christian community. Where are the ATI people in this thread, or the Duggar thread, or quite frankly, any thread where he is brought up? Why do the people who are affiliated with his " ministry" ( and I use that term lightly) never come out and just say they are part of his ministry...instead of saying they follow "certain principles"? I know there are so many who follow this dreck and push these materials, yet...where are they to say Hey, Faithe....you got this all wrong. I am not big on book banning, or book burning....though a few of mine have found their way to the wood stove ( Pearls books went in along with my copy of a magickal formulary....I did not feel comfortable donating those along with the boxes of homeschooling books we were finished with). I am not panicking at all....I just like to know what and whom I am dealing with...it helps me teach my material! I use many older and archaic books....I know I need to pre read them and feel out the world view....and then approach the book with my kids with a critical eye. Why would I ever be LESS careful with history or Bible studies than I would choosing a math curriculum....and don't even get me started on science! Lol!!! It scares the freaking dickens out of me how close we were to subjecting our kids to this brainwashing ickyness!! My kids received enough bullying at the hands of the "perfect darlings" to never fall for that crud, and like I said I want to make sure not a dime of my money goes anywhere near any of these people. They are NOT harmless!

Thank you so much Faithmanor for all this info! See, this is what really gets my knickers in a twist!!! The secrecy of materials...the hiding, the circle speech. If you believe something...for God's sake, come out and say it and take your lumps if you are wrong, mother grow from it.. All the secret books and oh man, do they have a hand shake??

You and me....we better get a jaw sweeper upper.

I agree. Not into the tar and feather thing. I just like to know what I am getting...Kwim?? If following Gothard and his minions is so great, why doesn't ANY of their people just step forward and say....I follow the teachings of ATI, and I am proud of it...here is why you should. Instead, all I see is skirting ( no pun) the issue, hiding it, calling it what it isn't etc. fear of persecution?? Maybe that is the line fed to them....but I don't think so!!! Just let me say. I wasn't placing blame or labels, I was asking because I really want to know. As you can see from my siggy, I do use Mennonite materials...although I did just trash the history and science...more from boredom than anything else. I am running out now ...but will be back later on to discuss more. :-)

Amen!!! I am very careful where I spend my money. NO, I do not shop at Walmart

I have used Barb and Marilyn's materials. Both seemed Hippy Christian which does float my boat. I never bought into the Noah Plan r Principle approach as it just seemed too complicated for little ol me ...and besides...I had My Charlotte Mason Hippy Dippy stuff. 💜. Both Barb and Marilyn were sort of unschooly, sort of academic, sort of "spirit-led" and I had no idea Marilyn Howshall still had a website...lol. Neither one of them ever sold any curricula per se, but spoke and write on homeschooling with a spirit filled life. Sweet stuff that sometimes got way over my head.

I am no conspiracy theorist. I am also quite gullible ;-) Anyway, there was a while lotta weird going on in my neck of the woods when I started homeschooling....think on one hand naked hippy kids and on the other Gothardites....and here I am....a Jewish born again Christian homeschooling for academic reasons! Lol!!!! Talk about one big square peg surrounded by other pegs which are definitely anything but round! I guess my biggest beef with Gothard and the likes of him is how they prey upon the weak and trusting. They prey upon those seeking a relationship with Christ and those who are looking for the Way. They prey upon families where the parents do not have a firm grip, or good role models, on how to parent. They latch on to these families and turn them into Stepford families. It makes me shudder to think how close I came to that....and how grateful I am that my husband had his senses about him. I guess that whole thread just brought up lots of past drama and probably a bit of PTSD. The Duggars seem like nice people. So do wolves in sheeps clothing. Sorry, the fact that they are not completely open about their tie ins with Gothard, yet apparent,y have no problems talking about their sex life...and don't even mind giving others advice on theirs, just pisses me off!! They are not harmless any more than the FLDS is harmless or any other fanatical group no matter how gentle and kind they seem to be. Yes, we live in America where we are free to worship how we see fit, and this is one of those pitfalls....but man oh man! Oh yeah, my bloomers are in a twist.

Seriously?? Weirdo.

I think Marcia is very approachable. Maybe you could send her an email and suggest a replacement book.

Yeah, I have my own reasons for not using their stuff, or using with a grain of salt....mainly their disdain for homeschoolers. I mean, If we are all so inadequate and couldn't possibly do as good of a job as your cute little classical school, why be so happy to take our money?? Grrrrrr....burns my britches!

Please post these!!

Lucky!

If it is any consolation, I used a BJU textbook when it was part of Sonlight 6. I remember clearly the day I threw that textbook against the wall mid-lesson and told my kids that the chapter was the biggest bunch of bullshit I had ever read. That entire book blamed every vice of mankind on the Roman Catholic Church! Oh really! Come on!!! That book also went into the stove.

Can someone who uses TOG or used to use TOG please chime in??? I feel like my house is in need of a big giant PURGE!!! I remember after reading the Pearl books and just glossing over the weirdness without even thinking about it. I thought they were just odd. Definitely took a while and reading some threads here to get me to go back and read them...which resulted in a lovely fire in my wood stove! I had no desire to pass those books along to anyone! Ever!!! Now, I am getting that same ICK feeling, which makes me so off kilter. Seriously! I am careful about the world view I send to my kids....and I can find gross problems with many secular books just as easily as Christian ones....I have tossed many, many history textbooks because they were just too difficult to skirt around. Kids, especially younger ones tend to believe what they read in their books....you know, IT has to be true, my books said it! I am finding it more and more difficult to find materials suitable for my kids. Most of all, I do not want ONE PENNY of my money going to ANYTHING Gothard or ATI endorsed! NOTHING!!! NADA!!!! Not even in a round about way. I would not want to support them or any of their supporters even in a round about way. That would be like me supporting the KKK or a Nazi group. NEVER gonna happen!!! No way, no how!!! Time for some research.....

So, if HSLDA advocates ATI(. ....and I am sure it does since the one and only time I attended a convention in my state...LEAH is totally ATI, which i did not know ....Came home from the convention, which I thought would fire me up, depressed for months! I came home feeling inadequate and doomed to hell....no joke!). HSLDA and the ATI people were all buddy, buddy.... Does that mean Marcia Somerville of Tapestry of Grace is also ATI since her husband is one of their attorneys? I use more and This is really deeper than I had ever imagined. I am really feeling like a big fat dumb@ss. Ick, ick! Ick!

Yeah, I am definitely not a fan.

I think it is the eeeeewwww factor!