This one came to my mind today and we loved it here: Taking Chance, with Kevin Bacon. It the story of the delivery of a soldier's body to his hometown.

I have also done my fair share of complaining to Sonlight, but we've used it for 15+ years and still use it, including the high school level. These are things I like: ~ The books. No, we LOVE the books. I love that the difficult books are interspersed with light fare. I do not understand those who complain about the book levels, when most curriculums (Abeka, BJU, etc) have only snippets of books or other programs (Hewitt, LLATL) only have several books per year. My kids have read bunches of books! They have not all "liked to read" as a hobby. For a couple of my kids, the homeschool booklist is likely to be all the reading they will do in their life other than nonfiction as an adult. ~ The history spines or lack of spines. No one I ever knew enjoyed a history textbook, and very few remember anything after the tests are passed. We add "meat" to the spines by studying to pass the history CLEP at the end of the year. My kids have all said history is their favorite suject. ~ The writing assignments. Here is the key to the writing assignments -- this is what most complainers do not do. The key is ---- here it is ---- have your kids actually DO the assignment. My kids write twice a week starting in 8th grade. One - the Sonlight assignment. Second, a 25-minute "in-class" essay. Here is the question or prompt, start the clock, okay you're done. Another comment on the writing -- I've learned not to stress over it. Repeated practice helps more than anything. Lots of writing is better than tons of instruction over a few pieces of writing. So I require that my kids write a lot. If the paper assigned is too detailed or difficult to understand, then I just say "write a paper on this topic" requiring at least a page double spaced. Somewhere in the high school years, we cover the SAT essay and college essays, note taking, etc. using IEW Essay Intensive and Advanced Communication set. This combination has worked for my kids. Volume in the younger years (from say, grade 6+) all the way through, along with these CD sets has been enough. My complaints have been: ~ The questions written to the student vs. the answers in the parent key. These have been "logistical" issues dealing with difficulty of flipping here and there and whatnot, but I think they have been planning a great improvement in this area for the new guides. ~ Sometimes the reading list is overwhelming. For some of my kids, they couldn't do it all. So we cut out some. As far as complaints regarding literary analysis, I have not been in that camp. SL 100 and 200 have the most introductory levels of analysis, and by Core 530 it is really excellent, IMO. There is a gradual increase between levels. And again, how many books can you possibly cover with in-depth analysis every year? If the student only looks at character in this book, and then setting in that book, and foreshadowing in the next book, that is enough for me. I don't think my kids need all of it in every book. I've graduated 3 and none felt the least bit unable to hold their own in college. They were all on the Dean's List. Again, the key in the writing is to actually REQUIRE the assignments, regularly. I have seen time and again people who use Sonlight as a book reading list (I have as well). If you can't make the IG work for you (and sometimes I haven't), well you are going to miss out on all the analysis and thought and conversation and writing. These things have been there all along, but rather hard to get to. The guides have never been student "user friendly." I think they might be this year with the changes they have promised. We'll see!! Then all these things will be easier to implement. Oh, and I forgot to mention -- the very best part -- the part that keeps me personally sane -- THE SCHEDULE! I live for the schedule! I still like Sonlight a lot. So do my kids. But then again, I'm just some mom on the Internet, so YMMV.

For a new homeschooler who would like to plan a unit study -- never taught before. Books/websites? Simple, easy to read, not overwhelming? Just to get her feet wet? She will be teaching several age 7-10-ish for a couple of units in the summer -- just to try out homeschooling for size. Ideas from the hive?

Here are some other movies we have enjoyed: Riding the Bus with My Sister (mental retardation) Magic of Ordinary Days (unwed pregnancy) Something the Lord Made (African-American heart surgeon) Front of the Class (Tourette's syndrome) In a Class of His Own (school janitor with no diploma) Mad Money (just fun) Pursuit of Happyness (single father, homeless)

I've volunteered to use some highschoolers as assistants in teaching Jr. Geography to about 8-10 elementary age kids next year. I have plenty of resources. The class will be loosely based on MFW EMCC (2 hours per week x 15 countries). My plan is to divvy up areas of interest to 3 or 4 assistants and then they write the plan. (An animal or person from the country, famous landmark, etc.) Do you have any tips or know of any worksheets for help in planning a lesson?

Yes, I'm tired. I thought it was because I turned 50 this year. But maybe it's the full-time job plus the part-time job I've been doing for 7 years. Or my husband who has had 2 shoulder surgeries and will probably never work again with no unemployment or disability income since a year ago January. That sleep thing? I keep trying to tell myself it's overrated. I get 6 hours, sometimes 5. But I miss being a mom more than anything. It's when homeschooling becomes another job -- extremely high stress at that -- and stops me from being a mom just hanging out and loving on my kids -- that's when I tend to go over the edge. I've been on the edge for years now. Sometimes I wonder how a person actually "has a nervous breakdown." Surely I feel like that on the inside -- you know, that wild-eyed panicky looking screamer there must be me. Or the silent one whose sighs cannot get any deeper because the energy is just. not. there. But it's the best I can do. We'll get through this. I tell myself it's not my kids' fault and God knows where we are -- where I am. As much as I can, I keep myself from listening to the "you deserve it" thoughts and a hundred other thoughts I could list here, but that would make me think of them, so I won't. As the previous poster said, I just don't feel like it anymore. Maybe because it's been so many years of homeschooling that I lost count. 16? Trust me, the excitement of it all wore off years ago. If anyone asks me why I homeschool, I don't have the answers anymore except that our PS is the most well-known drug school in the state. The thought of me having a life outside of homeschooling and work is foreign to me. I often pray that I have made the right sacrifice with my life. I'm not so sure it has been worth it to lose the mother job in exchange for the teacher/micro-manager job. Sigh. Summer is coming. Repeat after me . . . Summer is coming. Life goes in seasons, I keep telling myself. Sunshine and flowers will be here soon.

<snicker> ;)

And they have identified the customer they are trying to reach. People buying books only instead of whole Cores costing $800 or more -- are not it. Current customers and missionaries overseas are no longer it, either. Book descriptions are going to be available online only, so those with limited availability or limited desire to be on the internet browsing books, are out of luck and they don't care. Please know this is my paraphrased version of Tim's comments. He said, We know you are disappointed, and then something to imply to we'll get over it. I'm not over it and feel kicked in the gut. again. Sigh. Ask me why I keep using Sonlight. It's the BOOKS. Not their marketing. They have missed the boat with that again this year and shot themselves in the foot.

Can Understanding the Times be done in a co-op situation? We have 1-hour classes for 28 sessions in the year. Would it be possible to cover all of the video segments in class plus have time for discussion?

I do not think this is true at all -- or should not be true of most teachers, especially those in the English department. Judging the quality of the writing does not depend on my agreement with the student's opinion. I have taught/am teaching a Writing class to co-op students now. The weakest writers are those who bring God into their paper (He's on their side). Instead of arguing against abortion, they will say abortion is wrong because God said it. This is a weak argument. This is similar to the children saying "My dad can beat up your dad." i.e., I'm right because God is on my side. This is the weakest of writing styles and will get nowhere with a teacher, not because of God or morals, but because it is just not well argued. I tell my students that God has reasons why abortion is wrong, and we can elaborate on those reasons for logical arguments without using God's name at all. Truth is truth and we should be able to argue (put forth a defense) of truth without bringing God's name into our paper. Some students just cannot do this and continue to write stuff like: God (fill in the blank) and therefore, I agree. My finest writers often hit me with papers I totally disagree with -- the value of cartoons, why everyone needs Facebook, chocolate is overrated (HA); it is not the topic at all but rather the fact that it can be successfully argued.

What does a college math major do after college? My kids know that say, culinary arts, leads to cake boss on TV (okay, I'm kidding). But how can my kids find out what math can lead to? How do you investigate engineering and decide on that or statistics or whatever, unless you are actually taking courses in that? Career "interest" surveys for my kids have been very shallow, playing up their hobby interests and not their educational strengths at all. When my kids think about a math or science major, they can imagine biology or a research scientist, but the life of other sciences, math and engineering -- how can they even know right now? So, other than teaching, they want to know, what good is majoring in math?

Is it possible? Specifically wondering about AP English Language, Calculus (DIVE CLEP professor).

Crystal, Did you by chance see what materials MFW is using for Economics?

The Mind Trap game. We don't use the game as written -- but I've given my co-op kids 4 questions per week as a start to my class. Very fun. Here's the type of question: Mr. and Mrs. Clatter have five children. Half of them are boys. How is this possible?

Angel, I should add in reply, that when I referred to long study days, in my house this is about 5, sometimes 6 hours. -- To me, that is equivalent, more or less, with public/private schools. Perhaps less. My kids don't do school on weekends -- almost never in the evening. And in my real life, I was comparing (the death of contentment, I know) to kids we know spending 2 hours tops on "school" -- sometimes 2 hours a week on school. And bragging about it. So I still maintain that education -- in whatever form that means to you -- means time. Just hangin' around doesn't make anyone educated. You have to actively participate. Too many homeschoolers I know just want to hang out, listening to their ear plugs, texting whoever isn't there, updating their facebook, finding new apps to download to their phone. They are non-readers, lazy, non-hobby individuals. But that's okay for them. Sometimes I think, though, that it's hard for a teen to realize where that type of kid is going to end up. My kids see mostly this type of kid. They do not see achievers in their homeschool real life -- those kids I suppose are in school. The kids we see are having fun -- hanging out at the mall on school days just because they can. Sometimes I resent having to even say how much I disagree with that type of homeschooling, and sometimes I resent that I have to have these conversations with my kids because these parents are in my face about my choices. I appreciate your input. I do not think my kids do more than what our public school requires. In fact, there are a whole lot of public school students around here who do FAR more than we do. When I posted, I was considering other homeschoolers I know, who disdain the public school and the education it can provide for students who want it. I tend to think that these kids will regret the education they did not get from their parents. And as the OP, let me also say my oldest only finished Saxon Algebra 1/2 by 12th grade. She had art talents -- photography, scrapbooking for magazines, piano. She still went on to get a 4.0 in her college program. So, as the original poster, I think you are misunderstanding me a bit. Same mom, same homeschool, child #4 is ready for Saxon Advanced Math in grade 9. It's not because I pushed or even required. It just is. But I don't need her homeschool friends making fun of that, which they do because they are busy texting today. I was just sayin' I'm a little tired of let's say we're homeschooling because we're not sending our kids to public school. Just living does not make an education and I believe every kid deserves to learn. From books or from someone intelligent who actually teaches. Teens hanging out with other teens in person or by Facebook or side-by-side on X-box does not make me think -- they are getting educated.

Are you past the deadline for dropping a class? Here in Maine, that deadline has passed. So if a class is dropped at this point, it is recorded as incomplete or fail, I forget which -- but in either case, you don't want that on your record. When you ask for transcripts to be forwarded some day to the college of choice, you don't get to pick and choose. Make sure this doesn't make a black mark on the transcript. It is SO unfortunate that this stuff happens!! My kids have experienced more bad than good college classes. Maybe that is typical of the 2-year college. I am sorry this has happened to you.

I have the same issues myself because I work from home doing medical transcription. The computer is an easy distractor -- see me here? So I have to just make goals with myself. When I identify a time waster, I have to move it to another time. I don't check my e-mail until such-and-such time. Stuff like that. I think it is one of the hardest things in life, to be in charge of your own time, trying to accomplish goals you set for yourself. But what you are learning now is going to serve you so well for the rest of your life!

I have taught a co-op class twice now. It's a one-hour class. The first 1/2 hour is paper shuffling, reviewing concepts that are identified on previous papers as a group, including a 15-20 minute lesson out of Fallacy Detective. The final 25 minutes of class is reserved for an in-class essay, using old SAT questions. I do not require that the kids share any writing out loud -- the kids I have taught would have freaked out if that had been required. Writing is so personal and the last thing I wanted was comparison among students. I always felt that each is doing what they can do. The first couple of class times, much talking is taken up comparing writing to riding a bike or bowling (my favorite analogy to describe writing abilities), or other sports. I find at this level, so many kids need SO much encouragement to just DO it. The class format is rather repetitive, but the focus of my class is volume of papers written. I firmly believe students become better with practice, so practice is my requirement. So the have the weekly in-class essay and Homework is another essay, which they chose from 3 given topic questions. I teach the 5-paragraph essay, but do not require that structure, but rather the elements (beginning, middle, end, transitional words, etc.) After about 8-10 weeks, we are rarely covering any grammar or technique concepts. I fill the 1/2 hour with Fallacy Detective, which is hugely popular in a group setting. We do it orally. I always wait for everyone to have an answer to the question. Sometimes I ask students to defend their reasoning. I also have used questions from the Mind Trap game (4 questions/week) to sharpen thinking skills. Some weeks I read a short newspaper article that I found interesting or a short story from Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story" that involves an author or something writing related. Good luck!

I'm thinking my reaction to the thought that pushing kids to excel does something *bad* to them, . . . well, that's a thought that I just cannot agree with. After 16 years or so of homeschooling now, I am aware of the signs of crash and burn. It happens once in awhile, I think, no matter what. Either the student or me. Or serious sickness, or we move, or something else. That's a different issue entirely. I am talking about the general design of homeschool -- is there a difference -- a real, tangible difference -- in having a homeschool atmosphere that uses difficult materials (my kids are happy with this) as opposed to taking the easy route and doing the minimum. I have to believe that there is. Maybe my dd takes 6 months to get through 4 chapters of chemistry -- but she keeps going until the book is done. You would call this wrong? Pushing? Causing something bad to happen in her psyche? And I've graduated 3 already who have gone on to college. College was easy for them, but is that because my homeshool requirements were "too hard" or "too much"? Or did they learn to work hard at home, and then found that the college requirement was just totally doable for them? Is that an impossible thought? To get good grades in college and not find it unbearably difficult -- should I now lower my expectations so that college is harder - a real struggle for my next three kids? That would be nonsense, yes? If my goals were the same as some people I really, truly know in real life, my kids have attained THOSE goals at perhaps grade 7. No, I am not kidding. When they say to me, why do we work so hard -- well, as I said I believe in education. For its own sake. But I would say that obviously, they and I would have a serious disagreement about what education is. Please do not assume that my kids have no hobbies, or that they "do school" for 10 hours a day. I am just comparing, say Sonlight upper core for English/History with a billion books to read and talk about, with reading Little Women for "American Lit" and reading Abeka grade 8 history for U.S. History (with absolutely no added assignments). There's a difference in the parent's expectation, is there not? I would still be interested in hearing how and why high expectations and more difficult materials could/would do bad things to my kids.

Well, burst my bubble big time. It is my fear that I will have regrets. It's not like I don't talk to my kids and just nag at them all day. We talk about why doing difficult things is important -- and they can see the wisdom in that. Would you be willing to explain why you think this is true? --- that it does something to them and it isn't good?

I did not and would not say that college is necessary to be educated. What my personal oft-repeating self debate involves is that I choose difficult coursework for my kids. You have to admit that there are easier choices for English grade 9 versus more difficult choices for the same "homeschool class requirement." As a parent, I make the requirement. My kids often see what other kids do for their credit requirements, and frankly, sometimes I think it is embarrassing how little a parent chooses to have their student do. (She finished 4 chapters in the algebra book, but it was June, so we called it done.) etc, etc. She finished Little Women this year and that's a classic, so I'm giving her credit for American Lit. (I am not making this up!! This is with NO additional "English" work of any kind.) If a student is in public high school (as many of us were), we had no choice, nor did our parents, over the requirements of the courses that we took. The fact that we Aced them with little effort (I was one of these as well -- Algebra 2, cut class Monday-Thursday every week for a whole year -- A+ because I handed in all the homework and Aced the tests.) I would not compare that experience to what I require as a homeschool parent. And if my kid was Acing Algebra, great. I would not add to their course load. But I still make them do a "whole textbook" for their credit. And also, I am not speaking to special needs students. If I begin the journey in grade 1 with high expectations for my kids and they meet those expectations, and then get to high school with the ability to work hard and do hard, well, then I have reaped what I sowed way back then when we regularly had requirements of real achievement. But . . . when we see those kids who don't read a book all year but they've got quite an X-box collection or whatever . . . Well, sometimes it's hard to keep my head on straight and just take a deep breath and walk away, saying, yes, I'm doing the right thing. Yes, I'm doing the right thing. Yes, . . .

Yes, I agree with this. But I tend to sputter when well-meaning friends think my materials are too hard -- too much -- as, why read 15 classic books every year when 2 in all of high school is enough. Or why do Advanced Math when Algebra 1 is enough, because hey, look at me, I turned out fine. I do not know anyone in real life whose student has taken an AP test or a CLEP test. College classes, yes, but as I said, my kids found college classes here to be about 8-9th grade level of difficulty. As John Taylor Gatto said, he could help any average 12-year old get through college. I saw my older kids learn bad habits of coasting and no effort required to get straight A's, Dean's list. They were happy, but I was sort of disappointed that it was so easy for them. They all graduated with Honors but had not a single teacher who pushed them to do more -- study hard -- do something outside of just Acing the class. Teachers were very happy to have my students, in the engineering classes and chemistry classes as well as statistics and ethics. My kids were oddities -- a real treat to have in class. And I am not necessarily saying I am unhappy with that. I am still somewhat shocked by it, actually. The difficulty I find in homeschooling to a student's "best" is defining the requirement to be achieved. I say, Advanced Math is the next course, you're still in high school, so you'll start that book. You'll be done when you finish it. People I know say, oh, that's far enough, so we dropped the math requirement. Or they purposely stretch a book for 2 or 3 years just because they can, as opposed to -- finish the book just because you can. Essays? Well, I teach that class to highschoolers, and ummmm, well, it's slightly embarrassing. Many kids go all year without reading a book. In response to questions, no my goal for my kids is not college in itself. That's part of my question. My goal is education. In my opinion, adding to education is the job of homeschool all the way until graduation -- not just stopping somewhere along the line of early high school and caving in to a teen's natural desire to be lazy and self-indulgent with spending inordinate amounts of time doing nothing and just giving up the requirements. I never caved in to my own desire to give up on the education part until the time requirement was over. Time does not equal education. Education equals education. I like to be reminded that this is the real deal and that I'm not making this up. I see there are many old threads on this topic maybe with a different name. At least I am in the right place to find some people who are agreeing with me, that accomplishing something difficult is worthy in itself, and this week I really need that! ;)

Oh my goodness! This is so funny! This is so ME and I've been homeschooling for over 15 years. I haven't a thing to sell, but I put my heart into what I do -- I often wonder who I'm doing it for -- this doesn't speak of neglecting our kids, does it? I mean . . . it's for THEM, right? Oh, too funny. :tongue_smilie:

Thank you all for your answers. Really. I question not because of any feedback from my kids -- seriously, my older ones thank me and my younger ones still trust me. I believe in education. I question because I'm alone here, as I think Faith pointed out in her world, and I get tired of defending my choices to people. I question because it's February. I also question because I see how incredibly easy college has been for my older kids. And yes, Sue, I think it is this: "You are preparing your children for better colleges than they are attending". But as a mom who only completed a technical college program that has provided me with a good income, and a self-employed, self-built husband who has a successful business with a GED education, who could have known? Who would have ever thought that I could facilitate an education for my kids for a better college than the local university? Who would have ever thought? I know I've read these statistics of how it's true, and my family is a part of that statistic that says it can be done with less than a college education. But I find myself amazed by it. ALL my real life friends do so. much. less. They judge and sometimes I listen. With my next 3 kids (mine are all spaced out a few years), I'm planning for an AP class or 3, a couple of CLEPs, maybe a college class (it's an hour drive, so maybe not). Why? Because they can. To provide more opportunities in college. They will apply to better colleges than the older ones did. Why? Because they can. The path seems right to push them to where they can go, because I know the more educated I am, the happier and more confident I feel about it. It IS fun to know things. It is great to have more choices. So thanks for the encouragement today. Really. I've printed out this thread to remind me on those questioning days that yes, it really is worth it to focus on the education THIS much. Easy might be their goal, but it is not my goal, and there is fruit in doing the hard thing and succeeding. Sometimes I forget that.

Smart kids. Hard courses. Long study days. Equals educated. Educated is good -- makes for happy adults who can think, want to think and do think, right? Opposite scenario: Smart kids. Easy courses. Finish quick. Fill time with well, other stuff, whatever that happens to be. Does it matter? As to which side of the fence I'm on . . . well, to me it matters. A lot. Everyone I know -- everyone IRL -- says I'm the overacheiver -- the pusher. I actually make my kids DO the work. Getting into college is easy for a homeschooler. Really. Why do I push my kids so hard to really get educated from their materials? I'm on kids 4, 5 and 6. Two finished college and 1 in college now. I'm pushing just as hard -- maybe harder, but I see that college was so easy for my older ones. They say they could have started in 10th grade (not necessarily socially). Someone tell me again that what I'm doing is the right thing -- the important thing. Really, it's the education that matters, right? Not just getting my kid into college. Not just checking off the box that it was done. Right? :confused: