I have written quite a bit about it here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361740 And I am happy to answer any questions you might have. Ruth in NZ

Have you considered activities that require reading, but not of a sustained nature? Something like Madlibs or Usborne's puzzle adventures? Also, I would definitely consider non-fiction both for him to read and for you to read aloud. My older boy did not like fiction until he was about 10, and I don't read fiction at all even though I read for about 4 hours a day. Finally, do you model reading with your son? Start with 10 minutes of silent sustained reading side by side with you on the sofa. Then get up and do 100 jumping jacks together, and settle down for 10 minutes more. We used SWR and my older son really liked the finger spelling. Because your son does not like reading, I would make sure to call SWR his SPELLING program because it is hard work and not always fun. (but worth it). Good Luck, Ruth in NZ

Not quite sure what you mean by "project based learning," but we do an intense 10 week science investigation every year that includes science (obviously), research, reading, writing, graphing, layout, and an oral presentation. I can tell you more about it if you are interested. Ruth in NZ

Me too!!

My ds has been studying Mandarin with a tutor for just over a year. For the past 9 months he has been working through Boya Chinese book 1. Although he has liked Boya because of the clean, simple, mature look, he might be interested in switching books because Boya is about University students and their lives. I assume that switching texts will be difficult because the 600 words that he has learned in Boya will not be the same as if he had worked through another program. In addition, his tutors have not focused on writing, so he can only write about 20 characters from memory, and those he learned in the past 2 weeks. So what program should he switch to? And at what level should he enter? I was thinking of a first or second-year high school program. He has looked at Better Chinese "Discovering" book 1 and disliked the cartoons and felt insulted because he already knew all the vocabulary. I have also talked to him about another alternative. He is very concerned that he will have to start at the beginning with a different program, which he thinks would be boring. He likes Boya enough that he is happy to do Boya book 2 and augment it with 1) graded readers and 2) a writing-specific program. Does anyone have any suggestions for this option? Thanks! Ruth in NZ

Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it. I will get my tutor to look at Singapore Chinese for my younger son.

DS will be self-studying for IGCSE Chemistry next year. He will go for IGCSE Maths the following year. He has been using AoPS Intro Algebra, so he is WAY over prepared in Algebra, but knows nothing of probability or geometry. So we will continue with AoPS for the next 2 years, covering those 2 topics. Then we will get a review book and do a bunch of practice tests starting about 4 months before the exam. We plan to self-study through the A levels but will take the lab work with other homeschoolers at the university. Ruth in NZ

Aomom, thanks for all the advice. My ds's first 2 tutors were trained in China in Mandarin as a second language. Both felt that we should push to get him up and reading because once he could read a lot, the characters he knew would be reinforced. Their goal was books, quickly. Neither of them thought that we should put an emphasis on writing, which is why it has lagged behind. Their reasoning was that you should not hold back a student's reading/speaking by requiring that the writing keep pace. The third tutor has no training, but because of my children has decided to do an 8-week Saturday course on teaching Mandarin. She has pushed conversational mandarin, and asked that I bring my little boy in so that the 2 of them could talk together. She is the one recommending going back and picking 5 characters per week to memorize and to get him to start a daily diary. He meets with his tutor for 1 hour 2 times per week, and studies 7 days per week for about 15 minutes. Obviously, he could do more and perhaps he will now that he will be focusing on writing. We are definitely a math and science family rather than language so he is not *dedicated* to mandarin. But he is willing to do the work and is apparently progressing well and has the tones down. What is your opinion of all of this? Ruth

We really liked Latin Prep. Ruth in NZ

Thanks for this. I'll go look at the samples. My son can read Pinyin and about 500 chinese characters, but can only write about 15. So it might be difficult to place him in the books. Perhaps they have something for older beginners? I would guess he would place into a second year High school text now (minus the writing.) Thanks, Ruth

This is very true. He does like it and has asked for the second book. This is my concern with dropping down to something like better chinese or singapore. He has gotten a taste for the university level, and liked it. I think you are right about the writing. The current tutor has suggested going back and learning to write the words in the program that would allow him to keep a daily diary. I am also considering getting him mandarin graded readers. He can read about 500 characters now. I wanted to run things by this board first so that I knew what to ask on the bilingual board. I think I need graded readers and a writing-specific program to augment Boya. Thanks everyone, Ruth

I hear you, but I am a bit concerned that he is not doing the writing, and now cannot "catch up" with the writing for this program. This means he won't be able to do the writing for the year 2 book either. Also, this program has no computer or audio aspects, so there is no reinforcement besides the tutor. Finally, from what I read there is a BIG jump up from book 2 to book 3. So although we might be fine for next year, we are sure to be in a pickle for the following year. Ruth in NZ

These are the reports that my ds reads when deciding if he will be going out. I just thought that some of you might enjoy seeing how variable weather is at this time of year!! Northerly to Southerly to Northerly to Southerly in a matter of 5 days. 45 knots is 52mph. All he needs now are low wind Northerlies and Southerlies which he defined as 14 knots (16mph) or less. So I am not sure that we will be collecting any more data! There are 2 maxims people say here. "No one moves here for the weather," and "If you don't like the weather, wait an hour." Forecast: Gale warning. Thursday: Northerly 15 knots rising to northwest 20 knots gusting 30 knots tonight. Slight sea becoming moderate tonight. Fine weather. Friday: Northwest 20 knots gusting 30 knots turning southwest in the morning, then rising to 35 knots gusting 45 knots about the south coast in the afternoon. Moderate sea becoming rough in the afternoon but very rough about the south coast. Saturday: Southwest 30 knots easing to 20 knots in the afternoon and to 10 knots at night. A few showers, clearing in the evening. Sunday: Becoming northerly 10 knots in the morning, dying out at night. Becoming cloudy, a few showers developing. Monday: Southerly rising to 15 knots. A few showers. Swells: Southerly 2 metres, rising to 4 to 5 metres swells by Friday evening !!!!

My ds (11) has been studying Mandarin for a little over a year with 3 different tutors. The second tutor started him on Boya Chinese http://www.amazon.com/Boya-Chinese-Elementary-Starter-English/dp/7301075294 . He struggled at first with it, but persisted and is about to finish the book. I am now trying to decide whether to get book 2. I did some research on Boya yesterday, and found out that it is one of the most difficult UNIVERSITY level text books around!! OOPS. So now I don't know what to do. Do I continue with Boya? Or do I switch programs? He has focused on speaking and reading, and has done very little writing. And of course every program studies different words, which is particularly problematic with mandarin because you will forget the characters if you don't review them regularly. He does like the book he has been using. It is very clean and mature. I decided to post here first because clearly my ds DID handle Boya, which speaks to his accelerated nature. But now I just don't know what to do. Suggestions? Ruth in NZ

This year for 6th grade, I have tried to shore up his weaknesses: writing and spelling. To do this I have stolen time from history and to some extent from science. Next year will be our big push on study skills. We will use Chemistry as the vehicle as he will be taking an external exam from Cambridge. He will need to learn to take notes, answer questions clearly, and study. Science is his favorite subject so I am hopeful that it will be a carrot to do something he probably will not want to do. HTH, Ruth in NZ

I own it and don't really like it over much. It covers the same material as Lost Tools of Writing which I will use instead. Ruth in NZ

My older boy checks his own work. He started at age 8 with grammar and then age 9 for math. Chemistry next year at age 12. Not much else has answers around here. Our schedule looks like this 8 - 9:30 work with younger (older working independently) 9:30 - 11: work with older (younger plays or reads) 11 - 12:30 work with younger (older working independently) Lunch Afternoon: activities/violin/reading/mandarin/history/documentaries/lectures/art etc. During our 1.5 hour block together, I just do what needs to be done to keep him on track to work independently. I have found that the logic stage requires a lot of discussion on many topics. So, during "mother time" I do the following in no particular rotation or block schedule: 1) sit with him for his least favorite subject - spelling (10 minutes every day) I actually don't trust him to do it if I am not there. 2) Go over my suggestions on his essays for WWS 3) Work through Art of Argument together 4) Work through CE2 together 5) Discuss literature we are both reading 6) discuss expectations for WWS or listen to an oral run through 7) teach him study skills (note taking, how to answer questions, etc) 8) Model writing by writing new types of essays with him (persuasive, literary, science fair write ups etc) 9) Guide him through time lining history He rarely has any questions on Math or grammar (like once a month), never has questions about mandarin (I don't have a clue), but typically needs to interrupt me to ask questions for writing (at least once a week, but I try to head these off during our official time together). I read ahead on WWS so that I know where he might have trouble and I make sure to get it in before he has to write. If I fall behind on something, I just make a focus of it the next week or month etc. Ok, so really I just wing it :D. HTH. Ruth in NZ

I finally quit buying the textbook for singapore math because my older son would not let me teach him. He told me that if I taught him or if he looked at the textbook that would be "cheating." I finally just gave him the intensive practice books and left him alone to work through it at his pace. This same child found the AoPS intro algebra book on his 9th birthday and taught himself. However, he is more than happy for me to teach him explicitly how to write! As for perfectionism, I found that it started to wane by about age 9. I think these are pretty standard gifted traits. Ruth in NZ

Thanks! That was actually the book whose name I could not remember! Ruth

You guys are wonderful! thanks! The book is in the library and the videos/lectures are excellent and free! I was also looking through Amazon for some lay person non-fiction and found a few books, but I can't really tell if they have any chemistry in them. Does anyone have a suggestion for something like one of these but with some chemistry in it? Serendipity:accidental discoveries in science Napoleon's buttons: how seventeen molecules changed history Thanks, Ruth

My ds will be studying Chemistry next year using an IGCSE text to help him prepare for the Cambridge exams. The text and content is somewhat uninspiring and a bit easy. I am hesitant to use a different text because the test is content specific with a lot of details on chemistry used in industry. Plus, I want him to learn how to study by going for a somewhat easy exam. I am also concerned about having him read through 2 textbooks for fear of overwhelming him and/or having him lose track of what he needs to know for the exam. How can I make this year more interesting? Lectures: TTC seems to only have the high school chemistry lecture series that most people don't like Labs: I am having a very difficult time getting chemicals into NZ, but I am still researching it. He will be doing a 3 day lab course for homeschoolers to cover the material, but not as much fun as a bit every week. Science Fair project: we will be doing one I am open to ideas on non fiction books, biographies, documentaries, or anything else that might make chemistry as exciting as I think it should be. Thanks for your help, Ruth in NZ

I definitely can see the value of many and small. I think we will switch to 4 medium sized ones in high school (1 per term) rather than 1 big one, so that we increase the breadth of his exposure. What I like about the big one, however, is how many problems arise and scale of organization required. Plus, of course, it is more like professional science. This is the first year that I am really trying to get my older boy to do the write up mostly independently, but he still needs me to sit next to him (reading a book) so he can ask me a question every 5 minutes. And many of the questions seem to be about layout: Should this be a title? Should I put the caption here? Do I need to indent? Kind of interesting, because most of my answers are "it does not matter. Do what you like."

Our family spends a lot of time each year on big investigations, and I never hear about anyone else doing one. We are currently studying longshore transport and topsoil depth http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361740. What have your dc investigated this year? How long does it take them? How do they write it up? Do they present it at a science fair? Tell me how your family does it. Ruth in NZ

We have decided to pay for the tutor for 3 years when they are in middle school to get the tones right for Mandarin. Then, I plan for them to self-study with a weekend class through high school. Ruth in NZ

Weeks 8 and 9. 2nd grade So ds's project is getting kind of messy. First he was studying the affect of slope and vegetation on soil depth, then we dropped vegetation because we could not be consistent. Then, after digging next to an plant on a slope, he added studying "obstacles" to soil depth. Then, when we did our reconnaissance we noticed orientation to the sun, moisture, and wind. Finally, this week we realized that there are big obstacles (trees, boulders) and medium obstacles (bushes, logs) and small obstacles (sticks, weeds). The depth of the soil really depends on how all of these things interact together. Are you measuring near a medium obstacle that is on the topside or bottom side of a big obstacle? So how in the world are we to make sense of what we are finding? Every time we looked around, we found more factors affecting the soil depth. What a mess.:tongue_smilie: Now let me be clear, this happens in science. Even in high-level, fancy science. So how do you dig yourself out? There are 2 main things that you can do. 1) Make your question more general. Basically, we did not know enough about soil to narrow the factors affecting it down to 1 or 2 to study. This often happens with young kids. They get so excited about all the ideas and possibilities that they don't want to focus on something small. And who cares? They are little. In professional science, a scientist would have already read countless articles that would have clarified what was already known and allowed him/her to create a clear cut hypothesis to test. Alternatively, if there is very little literature, then you do exactly what we have done, which is go out and gather a lot of observations and start to think and make sense of the situation. Then, you would set up a study. But ds is 8. So his question now is officially: What factors affect topsoil depth? Very straight forward, and it allows him to include everything he has learned or even hypothesized about. 2) The next thing you do is start analyzing whatever data you have collected to date. This will help clarify your thinking and will guide the rest of your data collection. So we spend about an hour per day for a week making tables and graphs (he is a very slow writer). These items he can use on his poster, which also makes him feel good. So he makes the following: a) Table: slope vs soil depth b) Scatter plot: slope vs soil depth c) Table: soil depth for obstacles/no obstacles (taken from samples where the slope is very similar) d) tomorrow we will graph this table e) diagram of his slope-measuring device f) diagram of how large, medium, and small obstacles interact and his predictions of soil depth. These tables and graphs showed us that we needed to collect data from some moderate slopes (we had only very steep or flat), that some of our early samples did not have very good slope measurements because we were not using his new invention, and that we needed to find an area with a large obstacle and dig holes near medium obstacles both above and below it. This process gives the last week of data collect some focus, so that even when we run out of time, we will have something tidy to present. So 2 main things surprised me in the previous 2 weeks. First, ds really did not understand how you can take a scatter plot and draw line through it. In hindsight, I should have realized this might be a bit abstract. :rolleyes: It is actually a pretty tidy correlation: the greater the slope, the less soil there is. But when I drew a line through the middle of it, he did not understand why all the points of the scatter plot did not fall on the line. So we spent quite a bit of time hypothesizing what could have caused each point to fall above or below the line. Was it a moist area? above the line. Was is below a large obstacle? below the line. etc. Very interesting process to go through. I will need to reinforce his understanding of the graphing technique every week until it sticks. The second thing that happened was that I had an epiphany as to the guiding principle for soil depth. Soil depth is fractal. (insert small pause while you think about that :blink: ) Fractal geometry is when equal patterns/variability repeat at every spatial scale (or time scale). Most people think of trees or shorelines as fractal. The variability in the land varies at all levels. In an area that from far away looks smooth, if you get close you see all the tiny obstacles causing pine needles to collect and causing more soil to build up below. As I said before there are big, medium, and small obstacles all affecting soil depth. Also, a large hill can face towards the sun but on this hill there will be small mounds that block the sun. Variability within variability. All of it interacts to affect the growth of plants and the collection of leaf litter, which in turn affect the depth of the topsoil! So, how do you go about helping your children discover this idea for themselves? Slowly. The epiphany came to me in about 20 seconds, then I looked around for about 2 minutes to confirm it, then I spent 2 weeks slowly hinting and prompting my ds. The concept is not hard, and once he started to notice the variability on the spatial scales, I introduced the name. "Oh, that is called fractal geometry." Then, I started using the name all the time until it was as familiar as Tyrannosaurus Rex. Then, I brought up where else you might see it: smoke, clouds, lungs, etc. I knew that my ds really understood when he drew a tree. It was the best tree, by far, that he has ever drawn. When I commented on it, he said "well, I made it fractal." :lol: Data collection: 2 hours Write up: 5 hours Discussion: 2 hours Total time 9 hours over 2 weeks