:iagree: Although I do think it would be nearly impossible for my son to do this without some help from me (and I need the solutions manual!). But I do see him improving as we move further into the book - getting the hang of this new approach. Even though the concepts are explained in the problems section, sometimes there are exercises that he can't quite figure the approach for, or quite how to work it. I sometimes have to give him hints. He has always done his math completely on his own and never needed help. This is the first time I've ever had to help him with math. Which is fine. He's learning a lot, even this way. I do have a question: is there anyone out there who has a child who is a pretty average math student who is able to understand and use the curriculum easily, and without much help from you? And if so, what math curriculum did you use previously?

Yes! DS complains all over the place when I say it is time for AoPS. But everything always comes so easily for him, and this is honestly probably the first time he's struggled with a course - and understandably does not enjoy that feeling! But when he is successful, he feels so good about himself. I love that. So what if he gets 100% on something that is easy for him. I think we'd both be thrilled and proud if he got an 85% on an AoPS test!

He'll be going to a private high school, but I would not likely choose this to use through Calculus if I was going to continue homeschooling him. If we both completely got it, maybe. But I'm thinking that as much as we're struggling with pre-algebra, it would be pretty scary to continue through Calculus. I feel much better now that he is also using Life of Fred Pre-algebra and also Key to Algebra. I don't know that I'd like using just AoPs pre-algebra without a more traditional curriculum alongside (not that LoF is particularly traditional!). It's just reassuring to me that he's using something else that he completely understands. I think I might possibly continue with the series as a supplement, because it really is so good. And it really makes you think differently. My husband cracked it open for the first time tonight to help with a few problems. He didn't think it was super hard! But then he has an Electrical Engineering degree. He liked the book and said something like, "You just have to look at the problem closely to figure out what it is they want you to do".

:iagree: Great answer! It isn't really about "shortcuts" to be memorized, it is about simplifying the solution. Thinking about the problem in a different sort of way, and finding a most lovely and simple way to work it out! We're only on chapter 2, but I keep telling DS that if he's doing all sorts of complicated figuring (multiplying large numbers), it's likely he's making it harder than it needs to be and that he should consider if there is a simpler way to do it - a "shortcut", I guess you could call it. Nothing he's memorized. But look at the problem closely and see if there is something you can factor out, or maybe do something else with that exponent rather than multiplying the number out against itself 21 times, etc. We're slowly getting the hang of it.

Yes, you're right. And Boy Scouts IS a bigger commitment - things are more by the rules, too. BUT, as a parent I have found Boy Scouts to be much easier for ME. I have had 3 boys in Cub Scouts, and my oldest will be in his third year of Boy Scouts now. Boy Scouts is so much less hassle for me than Cub Scouts, just because it is boy-led and parents don't need to attend meetings and campouts. And because the boys are older and more responsible for getting things done at that age. Of course I do realize people call Cub Scouts "Boy Scouts" because it's under the governance of Boy Scouts. What I meant is that it's really not the same at all. Very different. Cub Scouts are not Boy Scouts. Yes, they are of course similar in many ways, since it is pre-Boy Scout program. But just so people know, you can definitely join Boy Scouts in 5th grade even if you've never done Cub Scouts. I swear Cub Scouts was just set up by the activity fairies - you know, those fairies that seem to pile on parents a bunch of extra activities! I will admit the boys have a lot of fun there, though.

We are doing Elements and spending about 45-60 minutes twice weekly which really just isn't enough. I'd say 3 days would be better. And if you have the time to play the games multiple times (which of course is going to help them retain info better), 4 days would really be great.

Well, and I want to say that I think Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are COMPLETELY different. I hear people calling Cub Scouts "Boy Scouts" and am very confused. I don't THINK the Scout dudes even consider Cub Scouts to be Boy Scouts, but I could be wrong. I know the boys have great fun at Cub Scouts, but I could take it or leave it. It's crazy and wild and I don't pay much attention to badges they earn. Requires a lot of parent participation. Boy Scouts is something that I think is so great that I'll be sure each of my boys does it, and will be strongly encouraged to earn Eagle. I'm hoping DS12 will have his within a year or so. My point is - if you are not a fan of Cub Scouts, don't rule out Boy Scouts!

This made me chuckle!

Do parents use the website? Our Scoutmaster says they used to have one and it was a pain to keep updated (I wouldn't think most of those links would change!) and no one ever looked at it - less than 100 hits. Do you think most of the parents feel the same way you do? Or are you the exception! I can't figure out if our troop has great communication or not. There is a lot of information, but it's almost too much, in paragraph form in the handbook. They try hard and are frustrated that parents don't seem to read the stuff (as the Girl Scout leader mentioned!).

Your responses have been very helpful! Thank you. A few responses of my own to yours: - We have a parent orientation meeting when the kids first join, and they explain most everything. But of course it is a lot of confusing info and jargon, and we don't retain it all - We also have a lot of adult leaders without boys in Scouts. Most are super-nice, one big old grump. Not sure WHY she continues, but I appreciated it anyway. No way would I do that without a Scout! - Yes, our troop is boy-led (as I assume all are?) - We have monthly parent (board???) meetings, but it's the same few parents that attend. - Shoot, it seems like many of us have the same questions and that it would be helpful if BSA would put together one simple page with helpful links. I'm sure some things do vary from troop to troop, but not things like Class A uniform, where to put patches, what is Order of the Arrow (or maybe that's just our region, not sure). - Blue card you need before Merit Badge - I asked my son about this and he isn't even sure! I thought it was just needed for badges the boys work on outside the troop. For newbies - most of the badges the boys earn can be done at camp or at campouts or meetings. Or the troop might arrange for someone to teach one on a Saturday, or maybe a leader will decide to teach one and send an e-mail concerning what boys should be working on. But there might be a badge the troop isn't currently offering. For example, my son earned a chess badge recently through his chess coach who is a registered merit badge instructor. He had to get a blue card from the Scoutmaster ahead of time. But DS and I are both confused as to whether or not he needs a blue card for ALL merit badges! - Merit Badge booklets: you can find these at your Scout store, at the library, or your troop might have a library. Just be aware that the library might not have a current version. This was not a problem for us with the exception of the First Aid book - the requirements for a First Aid Kit were very different from the updated book. - Merit Badge Worksheets - you can download these from http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Merit_Badge_Worksheets'>http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Merit_Badge_Worksheets and should probably use them for all your merit badges. - List of current Merit Badges: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Merit_Badge - Yes, your son can work on badges independently, but must first get a card from the Scoutmaster and find a registered merit badge instructor for that badge. First thing to do is ask is there is an adult leader in troop that's registered for that badge. Also ask if it will be offered later in the year or at camp. Personally I wouldn't have him spend his time on it individually if it is going to be covered at a campout, etc. If there is a badge he wants to earn and no instructor for it in the troop, hopefully they can direct you to someone. Or contact your district people. Surely they keep a list. Otherwise I'd do a little googling! DS wanted to earn a Coin Collecting badge and I didn't realize a leader from a nearby troop was registered for that and ended up offering it to our troop. I was going to have him contact a coin collecting society and check with them.

When ds joined Scouts a couple of years ago, we couldn't seem to figure out how everything in Scouting worked, and are just now feeling like we really get it. I mean things like: getting a blue card ahead of time for merit badge. Come to meeting 30 minutes early to work on rank advancements, where are the merit badge worksheets to download, what is a Class A uniform, what is Court of Honor, do parents attend, etc. Most of which is in the handbook the troop puts together. But we consistently have problems with parents not knowing these things and the Scoutmaster is frustrated. I guess because people aren't looking things up. I've suggested a webpage. I just wondered how other troops deal with getting information out to parents, and if they constantly have lots of questions that could be answered in the troop handbook (or maybe not). I'm in charge of updating the handbook, and I'm not really sure what I can do to make it so that parents read these things and don't have all the questions. Also, what percentage of parents would you say attend the parent meetings? Please no debate about Scouting, or comments about this is why you don't do Scouts. I'm just looking for helpful suggestions so that we can help with all the cluelessness on the part of the parents. Thanks so much!

:iagree: Yes, I think this is good. But as I jumped I would scream/yell loudly before saying the "hey, no touching!" More like "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKK!! HEY! NO TOUCHING! Omigosh!"

I am all about not babying kids at swimming lessons - couldn't stand it when instructors would ASK if they wanted to get in! I wasn't paying to have my kids say, "no, I want to sit on the steps and watch you teach the rest of the kids". But I think what you're describing is too harsh on the first day of the lesson. I would think they'd start with blowing bubbles for kids who are scared to go under. I'm not sure what I'd do now. I'm afraid if you do pull her, that you'll give her a negative impression about swim lessons. Maybe talk with the instructor and ask her to go easy, conceding that you realize she will not progress as much as most of the kids do. But at this point you want her to not hate lessons and you feel the first lesson was a bit much for her.

Hate to say, but I don't think she's going to be able to do much with a child that far advanced. It would have to be individual tutoring if she was actually teaching him. Of course she could just hand him a 4th grade math book, and 5th grade writing assignments, but I'm guessing that's not what you want and isn't really fair to him. I'd ask to meet with her, sympathize with her situation, and show her his work from last year. Maybe phrase it like, "do you see this working out for him" or "what are your thoughts on him being able to work at his own level? Is it possible in your classroom?" And throw out that you'd see if maybe the principal would let you send him to 4th grade for math (assuming you want to do this - it doesn't seem ideal with a 3-year age gap). Find out if they have any kind of pull out program. Talk to the principal about what they can do for this type of student. Don't mean to be a downer, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. 75th percentile and up seems to me that they just don't have any students that are struggling. That is not your top students. I mean maybe the whole class is 75th-85th! Not that those kids aren't smart, but even kids at the 95th percentile are nowhere near profoundly gifted kids. Good luck. I feel for you! So frustrating. You're a good mom to want to figure this out.

Thank you for this! I am going to print it out and try to figure out what you're talking about...cause I only kind of get it reading it now. But I think after a cup of coffee and a bit more focus it will make perfect sense. Because I do know that this problem (and so many others) aren't about doing a bunch of multiplying, etc., but instead it's about figuring out the method for this type of problem. And once you learn the secret, it's not so hard. I never remember doing any problems in my life where I had to figure out what's the last digit or how many digits, etc. Maybe I just have a bad memory, though. I do think this book is really going to each us a different way of looking at numbers and math problems.

He used Saxon Math from K-6. And did very well. He also did LoF Fractions, and is almost done with Decimals and Percents. He's also done a lot of the Key to books: Fractions, Decimals, Percents, Measurements, Algebra (he's on book 3). But none of those have any hard problem solving. I'm sorry we waited so long for it! I also had a small group of 4-8 kids this summer to meet with a math teacher for a little problem solving class. The kids were all incoming 7th graders, and my son was definitely ahead of most of them as far as problem-solving. But I think that's just because he's pretty quick and also good at math. Not because he knows how to really figure out hard stuff.

Thank you. You're right, but we're still finding it very challenging, mainly the challenge problems at the end of the chapter (the rest were manageable). This for instance: How many digits are in the product of these two numbers: 9999....99 x 444...44 (where each number has 94 digits) So they change 9999...99 to 1000...00 - 1 and then distribute, etc. It is modeled on some of the earlier problems, but it was even hard for me them to carry out the subtraction to get 4444...4435555...556. I'm leaving out info, but for you math heads, you probably get what I'm talking about. I think it turns out I've either gone downhill a lot in 30 years, or I just never had any really hard math. Probably some of both! But it is very hard for my son as well, maybe because he's used Saxon math up until now. I have to admit, he gets some of this AoPS faster than I do! But I think it's a great book, a great approach and am excited to continue. And I am VERY thankful for the solutions manual! We're also using some other prealgebra materials. Something that is free and that I also really like is Lucid Math prealgebra videos. I'm having him watch those and take notes. They are short (3 min each) and very clear. Covers the basic concepts, nothing hard so far, but I think it'll be good to cement basic concepts in an easier way as well.

It is SO DARN HARD I can hardly believe it! I feel like such an idiot, and I always thought I was fairly decent at math, went to an excellent private high school, took Calculus in college. There is no way I can figure out how to do some of these problems! I told ds today that we'll have to skip several problems and see if dad (engineer type) can explain them because I don't even understand the answer key. My son is hating it more by the day because it is so hard. He is a very sharp kid (scored 99 in ITBS math, top of his class at his private school) and is not used to working hard. I don't think he's REALLY hating it, and I'm hoping he'll come around. I did talk with him about it today and said I know it's hard - it's hard for me, but that's good for us. I told him we might have to refer to the answer manual more than we'd like to, but we're still learning that way and hopefully we'll get better as we go along. But can I just also say that in spite of all this, or maybe because of it!, I think it is awesome! It is really make us look at math in a different way. It definitely feels more like something set up for participating in math competitions, BUT I hope that kind will serve him well in high school and beyond. We are having to look at the TM a lot, but I'm hoping we'll start to get the hang of it. I especially love how we're learning all sorts of cool shortcuts to hard problems. I don't really mean shortcuts, but being able to see how we might factor or distribute a complicated problem, or just subtract a 1 so we could then factor, etc. For anyone who is considering it, I highly recommend it even though we're only on chapter 2! I do think it would probably be a bit much for kids that find math difficult to begin with. Just wanted to share my thoughts. I'm thoroughly impressed and exasperated at the same time! ETA: DS definitely isn't really hating it. Exaggeration. It's kind of a joke when we pull it out and we both laugh when he says, "I don't have to do AoPS today, do I?" and he does seem pretty satisfied (proud?) when he is able to work some of the problems. I shouldn't have said he was hating it more each day - that's more of a joke and of course people wouldn't realize that! If I told him he could quit, he would be thrilled, though!

LOVE the family tree idea!

Yeah, I like this a lot! What a bunch of jerks. I'm so sorry.

We really like History Odyssey. This year we're using Joy Hakim's A History of US and like that as well.

:iagree: Except I don't think I'd word it like "if we don't make a big point of celebrating your dd's birthday" because she might think "just singing" isn't making a big point. I think I'd take the word "big" out!

I don't think she was trying to get you to do a joint party, just a heads-up in case the girl said anything about it being her birthday, etc. I would not provide any gift for the girl or anything like that. I do think it might be nice to ask your DD what she thinks about singing to her...if the girl mentions it. But I wouldn't do it right after your daughter's - maybe later on. But even then I don't think you're at all obligated, and it would be REALLY rude if the other mom asked you to do it. I'd be so surprised if she did that. Like you said - the girl is 7. Plenty old to understand this is not her party. Her family should make a big deal of her day beforehand, etc.

Watched a pretty good movie tonight, and thought some people might find it appropriate for their American history studies. "Heartland" (1980 starring Rip Torn and Conchata Ferrell). It is set in 1910 and is about a widow and her young daughter moving from Boston to Wyoming where the mother takes a job as a housekeeper. The man's accent is a bit hard to understand and I think younger kids might not get some of it. It is a rather stark view of homesteading, and might be a bit much for some kids. It is pretty realistic - shows cows being skinned, pig being shot and throat cut, baby's birth, calf's birth (pretty amazing - they pulled him out by his feet). And the sad realities of frontier life as well... see below for spoiler.... sad death of the baby, whose body is shown (from afar) being washed after he dies. It didn't feel to me like a particularly sad movie, just the realities of frontier life and how difficult it was - but they dealt with it. And they just keep on working and trusting that things will work out!

OMIGOSH - THANK YOU!!!!! This is wonderful! I am so excited about it.