I'm intrigued! Where did you get the boards and where can I find info to use them ~

OK, this is not a secular program, so it can be ruled out ~ missed that part, sorry.

We used it for 5 years, grammar not being one of my faves, mostly because I forgot a lot of the particulars. It was the original recommendation in 1st edition TWTM. I liked the fact that it was in a workbook, with clear lessons and lots of preprinted pages for practice. My son did very well with it, though he thought it was boring to work out of a workbook (the only one we ever used). But, I have to say, it has really stuck with him well. I know there are always new (or newly discovered)things on the market that become the "in" things to try. But this was a very inexpensive and straight forward grammar program with lots of practice. Just a thought ~

ditto :) and I don't even really like dogs

doublepost, sorry, it signed me out and I didn;t know if it sent

Jessica, I read most of it, skimmed the last part, being vey familiar with Doug Wilson and his books. I will state on the outset, I would classify myself as Christian Classical. Years ago, I read Adler, and Hirsh. I understand the need for literacy, as I think we all agree. About introducing science abstract facts at an early age ~ I understand both sides of the issue. However, I would say, I don't know that either of them are in the whole, wrong. I introduced my kids in early elementary years to the idea of atoms. WE didn't spend much time on it. WE basically did the forms of matter (I think this was 3rd grade), starting with everything made of atoms. We spent an afternoon building different molecules, usually one that DID relate to their real life experience, H2O for example. We discussed how atoms/molecules make up different forms of matter differently (solids, liquids, gas). We did this through direct observation of things in real life (the classic water example, ice, water, and steam) among others. We never much of that until we got into 8th grade Apologia Physical Science, but those early lessons never left him. I have been pained to watch kids who are 13 years old (I teach science at a co-op), who have heard of atoms and molecules, but had no real idea what they were. Of course, they learned it and in the long run, it made no difference at all to anyone. I have always had a little problem with Classical facts only for science (or any subject for that matter). But the way I see it, is a good parent/teacher will present those facts in a meaningful context, though in the end, you may only expect them to remember the fact. I think there can be a happy marriage of both. Some kids are going to retain the context more than others, based on the individual. Isn't that OK? History ~ again, I think it depends on the parent/teacher. I think understanding the flow of history, the cause and effect, if possible, while perhaps focusing on retention of the facts, is perfectly OK. Great Books ~ my 14 year old is on a Great Books Program right now (not with me, but they are using the VP OMnibus as a core book, though much has been modified). They have done a very good job of intergrating that the human experience, in literature or history, is not isolated to one's one generation. The problems of ideas, war, love, greed, etc. Hopefully, he is learning, though he may be yet to encounter, the consequences of ideas. Is it going to save him from being a sinful human? Of course not. But my hope is, that he will learn some wisdom from those that have gone before us. We don't neglect teaching morality, our faith, etc because it isn't "relavant" to our child's experience at the time. WE teach those things in the hope that when faced with situations, decisions and so on, that they have a storehouse to draw from. That decision though, will always rest with them. No amount of religious instruction or education will deliver them from making bad jusgement calls, and mistakes. Finally, about arrogance. I know here, that is a common view of kids from our secular classical schools (the old money, very old schools here) and even from some of the Christian Classical Schools, though a little less with them. I would not characterise them all that way. I do think this is where world view, whatever that may be, is absolutely critical. If we teach that knowledge is the ultimate goal, and one is told of feels like thay achieved it, yes, arrogance will follow. If we teach that knowledge is something to pursue in the service of others, that can be a completely different story. I believe, if taught well, that a good education should bring one into humility at the vastness of knowledge and experience we will never posses or know. I don't know about everyone else, but the more I have learned over the years, has only brought me to the realization of how much I truly don't know. I think I was far more arrogant as a classical ed proponent when I first started this journey 8 years ago that I am now. OK, one more final note. I have stated this before on posts over the years when this has come up, but I am certain that my oldest child, who is bright , smart, well liked, and so on, would suffer from arrogance or pride no matter what we would have chose for an educaitonal avenue. If he had gone to public school, I have no doubt he would have found something to be boastful, or proud about. My husband and I came to realize this and decided that any pride or arrogance that came from him, came from his heart and his own wrong thinking, and not from the classical educational avenue we pursued. It might show up a little more at times, but we just faithfully, though I'm sure not well enough, talk with him about his own thinking, like you would about any parentling issue. This years lesson for him, wisdom is not the same as knowledge. Sorry this is so long. I liked the article overall. I have read some discussions about Doug Wilson's views (which I don't embrace, by the way) and those of his brother's about learning both sides of an argument vs indoctrination. My experince has been that to I think understanding on both sides of an issue are good. At my son't tutorial, they have had debates and had to write papers, representing opposite views of their own. I personally, think that is a healthy experience, if guided well. \ Enjoy your talk this weekend ~ I don't have time to proofread this, so hopefully I was clear ~

Jessica, I read most of it, skimmed the last part, being vey familiar with Doug Wilson and his books. I will state on the outset, I would classify myself as Christian Classical. Years ago, I read Adler, and Hirsh. I understand the need for literacy, as I think we all agree. About introducing science abstract facts at an early age ~ I understand both sides of the issue. However, I would say, I don't know that either of them are in the whole, wrong. I introduced my kids in early elementary years to the idea of atoms. WE didn't spend much time on it. WE basically did the forms of matter (I think this was 3rd grade), starting with everything made of atoms. We spent an afternoon building different molecules, usually one that DID relate to their real life experience, H2O for example. We discussed how atoms/molecules make up different forms of matter differently (solids, liquids, gas). We did this through direct observation of things in real life (the classic water example, ice, water, and steam) among others. We never much of that until we got into 8th grade Apologia Physical Science, but those early lessons never left him. I have been pained to watch kids who are 13 years old (I teach science at a co-op), who have heard of atoms and molecules, but had no real idea what they were. Of course, they learned it and in the long run, it made no difference at all to anyone. I have always had a little problem with Classical facts only for science (or any subject for that matter). But the way I see it, is a good parent/teacher will present those facts in a meaningful context, though in the end, you may only expect them to remember the fact. I think there can be a happy marriage of both. Some kids are going to retain the context more than others, based on the individual. Isn't that OK? History ~ again, I think it depends on the parent/teacher. I think understanding the flow of history, the cause and effect, if possible, while perhaps focusing on retention of the facts, is perfectly OK. Great Books ~ my 14 year old is on a Great Books Program right now (not with me, but they are using the VP OMnibus as a core book, though much has been modified). They have done a very good job of intergrating that the human experience, in literature or history, is not isolated to one's one generation. The problems of ideas, war, love, greed, etc. Hopefully, he is learning, though he may be yet to encounter, the consequences of ideas. Is it going to save him from being a sinful human? Of course not. But my hope is, that he will learn some wisdom from those that have gone before us. We don't neglect teaching morality, our faith, etc because it isn't "relavant" to our child's experience at the time. WE teach those things in the hope that when faced with situations, decisions and so on, that they have a storehouse to draw from. That decision though, will always rest with them. No amount of religious instruction or education will deliver them from making bad jusgement calls, and mistakes. Finally, about arrogance. I know here, that is a common view of kids from our secular classical schools (the old money, very old schools here) and even from some of the Christian Classical Schools, though a little less with them. I would not characterise them all that way. I do think this is where world view, whatever that may be, is absolutely critical. If we teach that knowledge is the ultimate goal, and one is told of feels like thay achieved it, yes, arrogance will follow. If we teach that knowledge is something to pursue in the service of others, that can be a completely different story. I believe, if taught well, that a good education should bring one into humility at the vastness of knowledge and experience we will never posses or know. I don't know about everyone else, but the more I have learned over the years, has only brought me to the realization of how much I truly don't know. I think I was far more arrogant as a classical ed proponent when I first started this journey 8 years ago that I am now. OK, one more final note. I have stated this before on posts over the years when this has come up, but I am certain that my oldest child, who is bright , smart, well liked, and so on, would suffer from arrogance or pride no matter what we would have chose for an educaitonal avenue. If he had gone to public school, I have no doubt he would have found something to be boastful, or proud about. My husband and I came to realize this and decided that any pride or arrogance that came from him, came from his heart and his own wrong thinking, and not from the classical educational avenue we pursued. It might show up a little more at times, but we just faithfully, though I'm sure not well enough, talk with him about his own thinking, like you would about any parentling issue. This years lesson for him, wisdom is not the same as knowledge. Sorry this is so long. I liked the article overall. I have read some discussions about Doug Wilson's views (which I don't embrace, by the way) and those of his brother's about learning both sides of an argument vs indoctrination. My experince has been that to I think understanding on both sides of an issue are good. At my son't tutorial, they have had debates and had to write papers, representing opposite views of their own. I personally, think that is a healthy experience, if guided well. \ Enjoy your talk this weekend ~

Thanks y'all. I have the MUS demo video and have talked to them. I'm going to look into RightStart as well.

OK, this isn't always true, but it's my token phrase that I self talk when I start going there. WE are in our mid 40's and having been going BACKWARDS in income for years. But, I think we have leveled out and are on the slow up. That to say, we like many other posters, wasted a bunch of money while single, while married without children, trying to have what it took my parents 30 years to acrue. We both live in a smaller home now than when we grew up. But this is small compared to ANYONE I know :) (1400sq ft). But, we made this choice, so one parent could stay home. We had to evaulate that yes, we like most parents wanted "more" for our kids. But, we had to really determine (and this has changed over time and aging) ~ more "what?" More money, more stuff, more vacations, more traveling, more parties, more square footage, etc..... WE finally landed on more time as a family and more "meaning." We both came from families that worked very hard, long hours and both parents worked. We made that decision. Do I feel sorry for myself sometimes ~ yes! I had in my mind to take my kids to Europe by the time they were 16. Ain't goin' happen. I thought we'd "Experience" life by more traveling, seeing and going. Work schedules, school, church, and just life has prevented a lot of that. But, I wouldn't trade it. We have more of close knit family that either my husband or I ever had. Of course, my kids could grow up and that all change, who knows. Anyway, my son has many friends (Ok, almost all his friends) have much more than we do. I just remind him of the phrase in the topic line, and to NOT compare. I'm rambling. But, yes, I can relate!

I might mention that I want a site that's not going to come with a lot of adware and junk, KWIM? Thanks,

I have a Down Syndrome son who we are afterschooling, and will definitely homeschool this fall. I already have HS'd older 14 year old brother for 5 years, so this won't be entirely new. But, his main struggle is math. He is 11 years old and we are REALLY struglling with basic math. He memorizes well, and can use a calculator, but I really want him to be able to understand the math somewhat. We are aiming for lifeskills, money, time, etc...He can count to 100 +, count by 10's, but conceptually, he doesn't get it. WE really have to get these basics down before I can even think he will understand time or money (though he knows all the coins, and that one is worth more, but doesn't understand the amounts at all). Some have recommended MATH U SEE, working with rods, etc... I have looked some at Kumon on line. Someone told me you can get this at the homeschool curriculum fair. It teaches one concept at a time until mastery. I think that kind of program would work and am hopeing to find some other similar options. Any experience with teaching math concepts. This is hard for me, because son #1 was smart. We have used Saxon, and just got it so easily. Thanks ~

A lack of RSVP is a real pet peeve of mine as well. But, I will say, even living here in the south, a lot of people don't RSVP. When this subject has come up in some social situations, many people, which surprised me, thought that 1. RSVP meant to call if you weren't coming. 2. RSVP meant to call if you were coming. Even people who were raised knowing that RSVP meant to call to acknowledge the reciept of the invitation and to notify the host of your intent, say times are changing, and to RSVP is a "courtesy," but not really expected anymore. I'm hopelessly old fashioned. But, I have a good friend, who entertains a lot within the university/medical school circles, and she even has the same problem there. She has finally had to drop the RSVP on invitations and state, "please call xxx-xxxx or email xxxxx@ xxx if you plane to attend." People were still not RSVP'ing. She lately has moved to "please call xxx-xxxx or email to xxx@ xxxxx if you will not be able to attend." Pathetic, I know. But she has had a little more luck with the last version. Personally, I start calling people about a day ro two before when they don't RSVP. I do this for two reasons. 1. They may have truly forgotten, 2. it reminds them that a response WAS requested. I'm not sure it really reminds them of anything, but it makes me feel good anyway. Maybe I should mention I am painfully aware I have RSVP righteousness. Mrs. Manners Rules!

I would think "home-made fast food." Home made for taste, disposoable containers for convenience

I always determine first what I want my child to learn(objectives) then find what will help us meet those objectives based on difficulty, learning style, religious views.

I'd say 50/50. 50% HS K-7/8 and 50% all the way ~

We get to an unplanned fast about the last week of every month :) It's always turned out to be a great week ~

OK, I found the display mode and adjusted it.....I guess that's the best I can do?

Ok, I know I WILL like this later, but for now, I can't stand having to click on every new thread to see what's going on. I thoroughly enjoyed scanning down one long page. How can I adjust my settings somehow to get something closer to that? I'm not tech savvy, so I need explicit directions. I looked through the user control panel and can't find anything to adjust to be able to see threads...... TIA, Debbie

Well, when my son was at the beginning of 2nd grade, his teacher, principal and I had a discussion about more challenging him more in school, as he was/is bright (and we didn't "afterschool" then, but we have always been a reading, go, see and do kind of family). The option of grade skipping him came up, because the principal had offered it as an option. We were all for it, but she brought up a good point against it. She felt like that would put him "ahead" with older kids, where he would always be the youngest in class. ONce you start down that path, there is really no going back, until maybe high school. The solution at the time decided on was that the teacher would offer more challenging projects dealing with the same subject as the other kids. The principal also encourgaged us to persue more educational avenues after school as well. It all sounded good, but never happened in the classrroom. He was involved in our schools gifted program, but it was only 3 hours a week. He wanted to be in there all day. All said, he did not return to school for 3rd, and we then homeschooled. I don't know about grade skipping. We didn't do it, but we may have preferred it if we had. Hard to say.

Just checking out the new format. I hope I will like it. I'm Debbie in TN. I homeschooled by now 14 year old 5 years (well, ok, last year he took 3/4 of his classes at tutorials, I personally did little homeschooling except science and writing). Last year he attended a classical Christian school for the humanites core all morning. This year, he is full time. BUT, it is a new school, doing many things well and better than I could do at home (English - he teacher is over the top great), but history this year is falling through the cracks due to the heavy emphasis on lit this year, so we are afterschooling history (yea! I love history) I also have a 12 year old with Down Syndrome (DS) who is and has been in public school, which overall he really likes. We have been afterschooling him forever, as the school does not meet my standards of academics for him. But he LOVES the social elements at school, so for now, he is there. WE do a lot of reading with him at home, grammar and history(which the school decided he doesn't need, since he is mentally challenged and serves no practical purposes for someone like him). ANd we are always supplementing math, which is especially his weakness conceptually. We plan to homeschool him next year possibly. I'm looking for sources to Middle Ages, REnan, etc for my 14 year old. We did SOTW in elementary and the entire Veritas history elementary program. At school they are doing a fabulous job with teh Omnibus Lit books, plus some extras, but the teacher (who they brought from out of state) is MS in English. He dropped most all of the history books except some of the church history, because he personally finds history boring. SO, they are reading these great books, without a solid backdrop of the history that surrounded them. Yes, they get a little background on the author his times.....but I want the more than that. I have WEstern Civ, but it's so "textbooky" ~ I was hoping to find a good easy narrative type book that he could read to get a good overview of that period that addresses the impact of the plague, etc... I also teach p/t ~ science ~ at his school, and teach at our old tutorial (science as well) there this year. So, with both kids in school FT this year, this is the first year I can say I'm really not a homeschooler, but an afterschooler. Look forward to some discussion