I've been through this book once with one child. I thought the content was good, but I was not real crazy about the lack of activites (compared to other courses of theirs). I'm teaching this at our co-op next year and am hoping to make this a better experience for these kids. Any ideas to add to the modules that you liked. Some things I thought about: Have them do further research on the scientists mentioned in the HIstory of Science module. In the Scientific Method module, actually have them design a simple experiment and test it. Fossils and Rocks ~ I have rocks. Where can I buy fossils that won't cost me an arm and a leg? I live in TN and we have a lot of limestone fossils if you want to dig around in the rock layers on the highway cutaways. I'm not that desparate yet. For the cell ~ have them make a cell cookie from cookie dough and use candy for the parts. Son and I did this before and it was very fun. More ideas? Videos you could not live without? Supplement resources or books? Thanks, Debbie

Well, I looked. That was my best guess, the workbooks. Thanks ~

They just put out the 2nd edition of Physical Science last May, and I know they were working there way "down" ~ General Science due to be the next one updated. I never heard how long away that was. I tried to call their office, but they were already closed for today.

Melissa, I saw that Claire mentioned that. I went to Read America and couldn't find the name she mentioned. I did a google search and nothing turned up. Do you know where to get it? I need to get one too. Thanks, Debbie

You may know a woman named Roxanne that moved here from LA and who was president of the LA area DS assoc. Don't know what county though. Well, I don't mind negative and you are right, associating numbers with colors would turn me off too. I was just wondering if it is worth all the hooplah that the DS Educational Trust put on it. As you probably know, math is our very worse area. I feel like we have made no gains in 6 years in this area, and any gains are so easily lost, though he can remember the strangest things from a movie or book 5 years later. What have you liked for math? I haven't actually looked at RightStart in person, but I was pretty settled with it since it is very similar to Montessori and I think that would work well for him. Reading ~ As much as I hate it, we got him started reading with sight words while being exposed to phonics. He's almost 12, and his reading has really picked up in his later elementary years. I can't decide if it was just maturity and things finally sinking in or what. Probably both. Well thanks for the review and tell me what you are doing with math ~ that one I'm almost in depair about. I have the book Teaching Math to Persons with DS and other Special Learners. I have to admit, I haven't used it much. Have a nice night ~ Debbie

Well, his scores on RR were ~ Blending Test - 100% (15 of 15) Phoneme Segmentation - 100% (42 of 42) Auditory Processing - I fudged this one. He could do the 3 CVC words auditory, and the 4 letter words only if they were written down. He would write the word down, erase the letter to be deleted and then say it). Visual reliant. So, wasn't exactly sure how to score that one, he can do it visually for 4 letter words, and only auditory for 3 letter words. DS kids are known to not be the best auditory processors and are very visual learners. NOt sure how to record his scores here. Straight auditory, 30%. Code Knowledge Cue cards - 72% Ok, here was the problem: he gets down to "QU" and gets them all perfectly. CE was strange, he was taught all these years the silent e rule, so that completely threw him for a loop and I have to say me too, since at that point I had not read the entire book. The following vowel pairs he was able to do some and the ones he could not isolate, he can read well in words, but not isolated. So, again, you are right, he is relying on visual memory a lot, which is not surprising to me. So, yes, that placed him in Advanced Code overall, if I count a fudged auditory skill. Not sure how to interpret the auditory though or if that would warrant staying back to get that nailed down, or just continue to Advanced and continue to work on auditory skills. Thanks so much for your time! I can't tell you how much I appreciate you ~ Debbie PS ~ yes, Chapter 4 is adjacents and Chapter 5 advanced

So, what did you use for your son? (nt)

I tested my ds yesterday and he would begin in chapter 5, exactly. He has the sounds in chapter 4 down very well, but chapter 5 he missed nearly everything on the assessment test, though he was getting tired of playing my "game." He can read those sounds in a word very well, but isolated, he can't tell me the sound they make. Also, can I say I HATE the way she does handles multisyllable words in Chapter 6? I think one of her examples was "table" and she divides it as "tab le." Should it not be ta ble, making the a long at the end of a syllable? But I could just skip that part and teach it different later. I'm focusing on reading right now and not spelling rules. Right? The O-E ~ he has already learned the "silent e" rules in school for years. I think teaching that the RR way would be too confusing for him. I may have to just let that go. Thoughts? Or just march on through Chapter 5? Claire, I did see a post you made about Sequential Spelling and like programs? I'm wondering if that may not be an easier route for us at some point. Debbie in Nashville

Someone had told me to talk you about SWR. That is one of the programs I've been checking out, but I haven't been able to see the book and on line info just isn''t enough for me. But, from what I've read, SWR seems to be more of a spelling program, that may enhance reading. I know DS is stalled out at the OA, OW, AE, etc vowel pairs in spelling, but he CAN read them without a problem. Trying to break those down into all the different ways to spell /o/ or all the sounds that OW make is so completely overwhelming for him. He has been taught (at school) phonics w/ word families, but I believe his little brain grabbed onto the families and not the phonics (when isolated). He knows all 26 letters sounds (short and long, though the c pronounced as /s/ throws him, when isolated, but again, he can read it just fine in a word. He does know the TH, SH, CK, CH sounds, but after that, with isolated sounds, he can't do it. I'm just wondering if I should just be THAT concerned about his inability to determine those sounds in isolation, or just continue with word families, chunk and rimes for reading purposes. Although we seem to be getting stalled out there as well, which is why I'm wondering if I need to work more with spelling and if it would help or just wait. I am such a natural decoder that I can't break this all down easily. Sorry, this is so long ~ thanks for your patience.

I ask this because I have been comparing some programs that is making my head spin. Some rely on word families for easier reading, with few rules or few phonics (if any), some rely on "phonograms" and lots of memorization and then everything in between. And then, as I have become clued in recently, the whole sound to sight vs. sight to sound issues. I did find a really good (highly technical) article on line that both are needed, sound to sight for writing, and sight to sound for reading, but as you said, reading is ahead of spelling/writing by as much as two years. And the article mentioned that these (reading and .spelling/writing are two very different skills, related, but very different. I guess I'm trying to find a way to intergrate. So, can I teach reading with word families but still apply phonics and spelling rules? I've looked at so many programs I don't even know what the "norm" is anymore. But, I don't want to work toward reading better first with some phonics, without overloading on all the spelling rules. Can you tell I'm a rookie?

nt

I've been looking on line of how to determine the proper height of a table lamp next to the sofa. We do use it to read by. The few articles I have found say "the bottom of the lampshade should be at eye level" and you should not be able to see the bulb. I have one table lamp that size and to read by it is terrible. It seems more like ambiance lighting. I bought a lamp this afternoon that was taller, but the shade definitely is not at eye level, more like the top of your head. The lamp is on a 24" side table, with a 23" base to the bottom of the shade/harp. Is this too tall? All tags are still on and I need to know if I need to take it back. If you are a kid sitting on the sofa, yes, if you looked up, the bulb would be seen. My 6'2" husband can just barely see the bottom of the bulb. The sofe is a leather, soverstuffed thing that you kind of sink down into, which lowers you even further a tad. I know this seems silly, but money is tight, a lamp purchase is a BIG deal here. The last time I bought any lamps was close to 20 years ago. Thanks ~ I'm standing by with reciept in hand for a return if needed. Debbie

No, he's not reading as well as 3rd grade yet, but he is reading late 1st/early 2nd grade level. So, I'm having to consider. I did email Marie at All About Spelling. She said she uses the same SWR phongrams, but she also does reverse sound to sight as well, but with one spelling at a time. I read a really good article last night discussing the sound to sight, sight to sound methods. It said that the goal for both methods should be at the end of learning, the student can reverse. If learning sight to sound, the goal would be to be able to translate sound to sight as well. But, I think you're right ~ initially, they would be confusing. My library opens in 20 minutes, so I'm spending the day (beween loads of laundry) to read RR. Thanks, Heather ~ I've really found your experience helpful Debbie

My husband went back in his 30's to get his college degree in Engineering. He only had 1 semester (that would transfer anyway) under his belt from 15 years earlier. Due to money, he went to a good community college to get all his basics out of the way and mostly due to $$. As a result of doing exceptionally well, he was given a full scholarship to a great state university for his jr/sr years. We declined it, because of him having to commute 2 hours one way each school day, but he was also accepted to Vanderbilt as a junior, from a community college, and with a 60% financial aide package. It was too good to be true being about 20 minutes from where we live. The only advantage of attending all 4 years at one school is friendships and the social experience. Obviously, with a wife and kids, my husband didn't care, it was about getting his degree. But for an 18 year old, that is probably different. We hope our oldest son will do the same, 2 years of CC and then transfer in to a 4 year. So we were able to get him out of two years of Vanderbilt for under 20K (tuition alone) and get Vanderbilt diploma. Just our experience ~ which was really positive ~ Debbie

I have spent another full day on line trying to understand what you told me in the lengthy email. It's not that you were not clear, because you were. But, after your post, I could go back and read these programs and see what I couldn't see before. I totally get the difference between the sound/sight - sight/sound now. And, I am convinced, as you said, that sound to sight is best. I also found on a UK Down Syndrome website that they HIGHLY recommend sound to sight and listed all the reasons you had already given me so well. They particularly recommended REading Reflex (well, it is from the UK). I plan to buy the book, but I'm picking it up from my library tomorrow morning (it was closed today) to read it through. I'm sure I'll have more questions later. So flashcards are not a component of this program? Kids with DS are very visual ~ just wondering. I cannot tell you how greatful I am for your help! Debbie

Well, I have RR coming from the library. I'll read it and see if it's clearer ~

It's a British program, but sold here in the states. It reminds me very much of Montessori/MUS being very manipulative heavy for concepts. Kind of pricey. I have read about this program before because the Down Syndrome Education Trust (British DS Research Group) highly reccomends it, but I have never heard of it before until I read it on their site. It's sold for all educational settings, home, special needs and regular schools, but I have never seen it or heard of anyone using it. Not even in the DS circles here in the states. I just want to be leary of anything that looks too slick and you are paying more for slick manipulatives than anything else. I'm really interested if there is any kind of lesson plans in the TE. Anyone investigated this program or seen it in use?

You may have read my post to Claire about my confusion between the Sound to Sight and Sight to Sound. RR and SWR sound like they are opposites in that regard, but at the same time, they both have things to offer. SWR seems to me to be a better spelling program, while RR seems to work well for reading. Could you use both somehow together? Or modifiy SWR to work with RR. Or would it be best to work through RR some and later add in SWR when reading skill are improved? Am I making any sense at all?:o Debbie

Sound to sight ~ the sound /f/ can be spelled by "f" or "ph" (or whatever else, don't have a reference in front of me).. sight to sound ~ the "ch" can have the sound of /ch/ or /k/ or /sh/ (or whatever). Is this the gist of the difference (beside the longer outcome of quicker reading with sound to sight) You're right, to the novice like me, it does seem like two sides of the same coin. You still have to learn the sounds and the phonograms in both cases, just which will reference the other. But then, like you said, kids already know the sounds, so they learn the phonograms that go with the sound. It would seem like one approach would work better for reading (sight to sound, what sounds can these letters make) and the other for spelling (sound to sight, what are my options for spelling this sound), but that seems backwards from what you said. So, I obviously don't have this completley figured out yet.

Thanks for the info, Heather. I think I'm more confused than ever :)

Thanks Claire so much for the information. It was so helpful. I read it late last night and will have to get back on later this morning and read it again more slowly. You don't know how much I appreciate it. Our library had RR, so I'll read it this weekend to understand the sound/sight approach ~

I think I read that in the newer edition that there is a schedule toward the back of the book somewhere. Is it, or the program easily modified to move at a slower rate? Say introduce only 2 new phonograms a day? I love schedules, and prefer written schedules, but I would need to modify to slow down. Just making sure I'm not making too much work of it. Thanks, Debbie in Nashville

That is EXACTLY what I wanted to know! Thanks so much Alana ~

Well, the only thing about Down Syndrome, is they generally CAN learn typical academics, but it justs takes more reinforcement, more repitition and therefore, longer time. They have good short term memory, but long memory is more challenging. The chromosone for Trisomy 21 (the most common form of DS) has similar markers as Altziemers (how do you spell that?). There is currently significant research going on betweent the two. IN fact, there is only one very popular book on the market for Down Syndrome Families: TEaching REading to Children with Down Syndrome. But after buying the book, she is very keen on whole word memorization, no decoding for phonics at all. Basically it's a flash card program for sight words. We did some of that in elementary (home and school), which he was successful at, but he stalled out in reading, because he could not decode words. He is 11 years old (12 in two weeks) and has extensive phonics this year for the first time in public school with his resource teacher. His reading and spelling has really taken off. So, I know he CAN learn this correctly. We will just have to review more often and go a little slower. But, I can't afford with him to go down the wrong road. I need to get it right with the best phonics method from the beginning. He can get confused with changes. So consistant methodology is important. Phonemes and Phonograms. OK, from what I can tell, phonemes are the individual sounds of letters, and phonograms are the individual sounds of groups of letters. Is that right?

This is the school district I want to belong to!