Yes, I know that. I'm sorry I didn't express myself very well. The article I just posted explains it better. But still you do not want to encourage embryonic use from abortions.

Actually there has been discussion about this: https://cmda.org/article/is-vaccination-complicit-with-abortion/

Yeah, but the production requires the fetal cells, therby encouraging more abortions. At least that is the way I look at it. Using cells that are old and already done in a limited fashion bothers me, but not as much. I am using part of a dead baby to save my own life, which makes me a little uncomfortable. Since I have options, I choose the Pfizer or Moderna.

CMDA said they should wear masks and also said churches should not meet in person for a long time. When they did meet in person they should only have instrumental music, no singing, masked and social distanced in a well-ventilated room. YES... pro life means ALL life. There are many of us that are for stewarding the environment ( joining go in healing creation from man's sin), pro life which means from cradle to the grave, etc. I have furnished a room for women and given to an organization in our town that helps women involved in sex trafficking ( run by a Christian woman who was a former exotic dancer), helped a young teenager who is pregnant, gave money to a friend who is working with a pregnancy crisis center, etc. I am slow into getting into racial justice, but working on it. So don't paint all Christians with a broad brush. 🙂

Understand the CMDA was giving the ok on Pfizer and Moderna. That is what they were advising their members to get. They were pro-vaccine.

Yeah, I know. Me, too.

Again from the article I linked above: It is important to note that fetal cell lines can be used in three different stages of vaccine development: design, confirmation and ongoing production. Many ethicists, including those at the Charlotte Lozier Institute, believe that using a fetal cell line for ongoing vaccine production is more ethically problematic than using a fetal cell line for design or confirmation. The design and confirmation steps use a limited number of fetal cells while the production stage is continuous. Below is a chart that designates the known involvement of fetal cell lines in the six leading vaccine candidates:

And I do understand this. Under normal circumstances, I would have waited to get the vaccine as well. We did not give the chicken pox vaccine for our boys because we felt it was too new. We gave it to our daughter when she was 5 because we felt like enough time had passes. So, I do get that and IF those people that are choosing not to get vaccines would mask, social distance, stay home when sick, then I do not have a problem with it, honestly. I had one couple that was like this. Absolutely fine. They have since chosen to get the vaccine. However, to choose not to get the vaccine and then to not take any precautions as well is irresponsible.

Don't you have to do physicals and surveys and such for some insurance?

LOL, I am not saying anything. I am conflict avoidant. Yes, they did something but they are also probably spreading it right now.

Maybe because of the use of fetal cells. CMDA advised against J & J, and Astra Zeneca, but ok for the other 2. Here is the article explaining: https://cmda.org/coronavirus/

So would this be an example of sick shaming? If so, I tend to see this reserved for politicians who make laws and cause problems for others. And I agree we have sick shamed. People have wished the Florida governor dead. But "regular" people not so much.

No I do not. I see people struggling with anger at how it affect them and compassion for what is going to happen to them. This isn't an either or. You can care about people and still be frustrated and angry with them.

They tested one day after learning of exposure. But really that goes to my point anyway. The guidelines need to be changed. Things like this are fueling the numbers.

Ok. They all took a rapid test that was negative, though it wasn't 3 days after. It was more like everyone at the camp tested the day after they got home once they found out about the person. Several did test positive.. But it feels like the rest of them should be testing today or tomorrow to get an accurate representation. Once they got the negative rapid test, the resumed their vacations and such.

Ok, so can someone answer this question: I know they were saying that if you were vaccinated and you were exposed, you did not need to quarantine. Is that still true? So there was a major exposure. Several people that were exposed are out in large crowds and doing all normal stuff unmasked. Now they are vaccinated and may be following protocol. But it feels like that is part of the reason why the numbers are skyrocketing.

I would just add that we actually have several divides. In the article I listed somewhere on the thread, it mentioned that in rural areas the vaccine hesitant were poorer Republicans, while in the cities it was minorities. Both were for trust issues. So we have that divide as far as who will and will not get vaccinated. But now we also have a divide on those who are vaccinated: no precautions vs some precautions.

Can you summarize. Have to pay to read. Does it answer this question. I know they were saying that if you were vaccinated and you were exposed, you did not need to quarantine. Is that still true? So there was a major exposure that I know of several people are out in large crowds and doing all normal stuff unmasked. Now they are vaccinated and may be following protocol. But it feels like that is part of the reason why the numbers are skyrocketing.

And that is AWESOME!!! I am all for that. I am even for concerts if numbers are low with masks and social distancing if you are not vaccinated. My problem is numbers are sky high right now. Concerts have no masks and no social distancing. That just doesn't make sense to me. Believe me, I have given several donations to the arts programs here recently. I want them to continue.

Bad news for Texas though maybe a light as vaccinations are starting to increase. https://www.kltv.com/2021/08/05/texas-covid-19-wave-is-climbing-more-steeply-than-past-waves/

I get that. My daughter is a musical theater major. I am a former music teacher. I understand. Believe me, my daughter wants a normal college theater experience. Her last musical was November 2019. Not being able to participate in choir has devastated me. And I was ok with it reopening April though last week. But the numbers have changed. We cannot just blithely ignore the new numbers. And to be honest, I am angry. If by April 90 percent of the nation had vaccinated. ( Figure 10 percent cannot for one reason or another.) We wouldn't be here. I do not expect it to disappear. I was ok with the numbers in May and June and "lived" life. I didn't do choir then because I was out of town too much. But the numbers are critical. A concert with a 26 percent positivity rate and rates in the 50's per 100,000 is nuts, especially when there has been a breakout at the place holding the concert. Now if positivity is 4 percent and they hold a concert indoors with seating that is spaced out with people wearing masks. Great. But here with no masks and no social distancing feels nuts.

Yep, Florida certainly isn't.

And that feels reasonable to me.

Absolutely. I get that. But what I don't get is that cases and hospitalizations are rising, and we are not changing our behavior at all. I predict our hospitals will stop "unneeded" medical procedures/surgeries at the hospitals next week.. At least I hope Texas is still doing that once they reach a certain percentage. So the hospitals are overwhelmed and we continue to have giant gatherings and meeting unmasked. Going to Walmart unmasked is one thing. Our concert is another.

I get that, but that doesn't change the behavior of my neighbors.