LMD
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Posts posted by LMD
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Just now, Sneezyone said:
I’m not the one prioritizing risks, you tell me.
Sure. Look at statistics. Provide sex segregated spaces where females are more vulnerable.
At last some unwitting honesty, you don't prioritise risk. What do you prioritise, over putting women at physical risk?
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Just now, Sneezyone said:
Compared to India? Puh-lease. There’s layers to this as you know. Now who’s being disingenuous?
Still you.
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4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
Forgive me but it feels very much like men are the issue/enemy here. Male-presenting people invading female spaces is the issue that sends terror into the hearts of legislators and good, Christian women/radical feminists. It seems to be recognized (correct me if I’m wrong) that the reverse puts trans women and women with more trad. Masc presentations at risk.
So, help me out here. Do those masc women/girls matter? Do I matter or nah, since o disagree? Is the fear more-less driven by fact or assumption? Can risks me mitigated or no? This all feels VERY reactionary.
Great question, can risks be mitigated? Please do elaborate. What risks? How can we identify potential risks? What mitigation strategies?
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The US doesn't have a long history of female subjugation?
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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:
Ooooohhhhkay.
Gaslighting.
Do you understand that males make up 99+% of sexual offenders and 90+% of violent offenders? Why is the UN fighting for female only toilets in India? Why do you think we have single sex female only spaces at all? For funsies? Cos we hate men? I have 4 sons, you don't need to 'not all men' at me ffs.
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5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
They asked. I allowed. It is a privilege, yes, AND THEY'RE NOT PREDATORS by virtue of being male but that’s the assumption that undermines a lot of this.
It's not an assumption, it's a statistical reality.
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5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
You think I know these guys who show up at my house to address issues? I don’t. They’re randos. And, yeah, they’re not owners. They’re of lesser means. That’s not a slur it’s a fact. It doesn’t bother me OR them when we chat about my garden. You know how many have thanked me for giving them respite b/c so many others won’t? TONS.
You. Invited. Them. In.
Also, your privilege here is quite stark. Most 'service workers' who do work on my home are probably better off than we are, or at least on par socio-economically 🤷♀️
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Like I said, your disingenuousness is showing. Trying to put ridiculous words in my mouth is super helpful 👍
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Everyone can see how disingenuous you are being sneezy.
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7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
Multiple tradespeople have used the facilities w/o issue and me/my kids remain unmolested. Shocking, I know, that men of lesser means can control themselves.
In all honesty, I think these are the same reasons men used, in reverse, to keep women off ships. They were wrong then and you’re wrong now.
Folks are free to speak all they want and I’m free to disagree. Ain’t I a woman? 🤷🏽♀️
Where there are crimes, prosecute. Live in hysterical fear? No.
Right, so is your door always unlocked and a public toilet sign on your front door?
Live in hysterical fear? Nice bit of misogynist language there.
Like I said, just be honest and say you don't believe that women have any legitimate reason for sex segregated spaces.
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1 minute ago, KSera said:
I agree the genital check stuff is hyperbolic, but I’m sincere when I say I don’t see easy solutions right now. I want easy solutions, believe me. I’d say humans used to be able to tell someone’s sex with remarkable accuracy, but with modern medicine there are a lot of trans guys who absolutely look male. So I’m not clear if you’re saying they should use the women’s facilities regardless or they should use which ever ones are not going to raise eyebrows. I think you think I’m being argumentative, but I’m not; this is an actual issue in our life and I don’t find it easy.
Trans guys can use the single stall unisex facilities. If you're asking which they should use when the options are only male/female, well, the principle is respect for boundaries. If they believe that their appearance will cause a boundary violation then surely they don't want to do that. I would think that having grown up as female they'd understand/respect that.
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2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:
I have three unisex bathrooms in my home. DH taught DS to sit while urinating so we don’t even have toilet seat issues. I can assure you they’re all man/boy. This needn’t be a thing.
And do you allow any random 'all man' off the street to use your home unisex bathroom? Or is it generally just those you trust?
Come on, this is an example of the gaslighting. Women's concerns around male sexual violence aren't a joke, your witty disregard doesn't change the material reality. Women will self exclude if female spaces become mixed sex. Just be honest and say you think that's a reasonable price.
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7 minutes ago, KSera said:
I don't agree this isn't hard at this point, though. Other than a complete redo of public facilities to provide safe, private bathrooms, I don't know a solution now that we are where we are. We have people across a wide range of gender expressions and which facility do we advocate people use? At this point, requiring transmen to use the female facilities poses similar issues as self ID, because no one knows who's who, and I think we all agree that no one agrees with any kind of genital checks for using the restroom. I remain certain that people will be just as concerned about a hairy, bearded transman with a deep voice coming in the women's room as they would a feminine-looking transwoman who doesn't quite pass as biological female. Because there's nothing that's going to tell them that's a transman and not someone there for nefarious reasons. I don't think solutions are easy.
(I refer to restrooms throughout this, but I think most people feel more uncomfortable about this with locker rooms than they do bathrooms. Privacy is more easily afforded in bathroom than a locker room.)
We never relied on genital checks and it's really hyperbolic to go to that. Humans can tell someone's sex with remarkable accuracy, but I'm not getting into passing/not passing. This is about respect and consideration, not about how well someone stealths or how we police boundaries. Social boundaries are a useful layer of protection - not 100%, but useful.
It is easy if people respect that women need single sex spaces. Have a womens, have a urinals, have a couple of single occupancy/unisex, have disabled. Really not hard to renovate. But yeah, if some males (not trans people necessarily) are intent on violating women's boundaries - and we know some are - then yes they tend to throw around absurdities like genital poilice to highlight how they believe they are entitled.
My friend, the one physically assaulted by trans activists in March, worked at a local council and tried very hard to clarify the law to provide protection & bathroom provisions for both trans people and women in her area. Do you know what happened? No one would help her. No one would talk to her. The human rights commission said 'she would never get a meeting.' The attorney General has ignored her to this day. One side is not at all willing to be reasonable here.
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5 hours ago, ktgrok said:
Well, if there are no bathrooms they can safely and legally use in public, that sort of curtails them being in the public space. If the goal was just to protect women, they would include in laws about bathrooms a requirement that there be an alternative available for trans people - a single stall alternative or what not. That's not what is happening. What is happening is that a transman can't legally use the mens' room, and if they appear male they can't use the women's room risking harrassment or even detention by the police. A trans woman can't legally use the women's room, and can't safely use the men's room. There are no options. Which again, is the goal - to make it so they just stop "being trans" or stay out of public spaces. Problem solved.
And you know why this isn't happening? Because some trans activists (*not all trans people) don't want the compromise. More than a few prominent ones have crudely said they'll p*$$ on the floor rather than be 'othered' in a single stall alternative. Many say that the validation and 'experience' of the female space is the point.
Toilets is relatively easy to solve if both sides are reasonable.
The alternative is that women *will* self exclude if female only spaces become mixed sex, for many legitimate reasons. And if every female public bathroom is potentially mixed sex then those women are now excluded from participating in public life & we have the urinary leash again.
Trans people deserve safe spaces, so do women.
Self id sheds another layer of protection from *both* - as then any male, for any reason, can also self declare into female only spaces without raising effective concerns.
This isn't hard, I know you all understand this. Which is where Melissa's honesty post comes in. Just be clear that you understand, but think those excluded women are - at best - less important.
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32 minutes ago, MEmama said:
Meh. I am not remotely concerned about one-off cases; obviously he wasn't a woman and didn't belong in that space. He was abusing a policy, that's all. No, I'm not interested in debating self-reporting; this dude was an abuser full stop.
I worry much much more about cis men than anyone else. They are the one doing harm en mass and have for all time.
Meh? Really?
The problem is that predators don't wear name tags, and they exploit loopholes. Loopholes like, ya know, laws forcing naked women to accept naked men in their space. How can you tell the difference between a 'cis' man, a transwoman & a male nb in a naked spa? What material difference should reassure/override the women's 'gift of fear' response?
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21 minutes ago, Eos said:
Thank you for this insight, I was unthinking.
All good. Raising teens is freaking hard.
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1 hour ago, Eos said:
Yes, and I'm genuinely floored as to why. Is it specifically because parents have lost teens? This is the most gut-wrenching, heart-breaking situation that I can well see leaving the need to be outraged and loud, possibly to the point of demonizing "the other side." And so when many on the "other side" keep telling you they are not anti-trans, not aligned with the right wing, not coming for your children's rights then this level of grief will keep families/allies from believing them? This is how I imagine it but I could be wrong. It's hard for me to understand that anything less than distraught grief and anger could produce the barrier that is currently across the conversation.
Nazis and the anti-trans right wing are just garbage in the road. Sorry, Rosie.
Just fyi - parents on both 'sides' have lost teens. That also happens when one side of a debate paints the other side as a genocidal enemy.
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All media, the premier & opposition leader (now being sued & rightly so). My friend is about the most compassionate person you will ever meet, I could tell stories for weeks, but she is not to be trifled with and they vastly underestimated her.
PP is a blunt instrument for sure, but she gets people talking, and she doesn't deserve the violence she's met with.
But, like a previous poster said, we can debate and disagree but this issue is so polarised and so hyped up that any legitimate discussion = hate/genocide. It is so disheartening.
And I'm sure someone will reply with how their whipped up panic is justified. I am not getting into it any more. You all can see for yourselves now... or not.
*hugs* Melissa, I hope you know that I am rooting for all the best for you & yours!
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Just now, Melissa Louise said:
I'm so sorry. I read about that. I hope she is doing ok.
Thanks. She is bloody angry and fierce. They have kicked a hornets nest.
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4 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:
We have them here too.
They turned up to protest women at a Speaking For Women event, and their counter protest presence has been spun as if the women invited the Nazis. So I am very used to the rhetorical leap which goes T*RF = Nazi.
I didn't think you meant that though, I assumed you meant actual Nazis.
Yep, my dearest friend of 20+ years was called a literal nazi/nazi adjacent. She was physically assaulted by a pro-trans protester that day. And slandered in the press that evening. The violent men on all sides made damn sure the women were silenced.
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That sounds wise!
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This 20 hours of working is temporary? I'd try to ride that out & think about changes again after decompressing! That is a lot!
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I'm hearing you, non traditional dh hours is really hard!
Maybe you could put some of the responsibilities for problem solving on your kids - you are willing to do x amount, if they want to do more they have to figure it out (ride with a friend, switch schedule etc) & I would add household stuff to this too. You need a,b,c done every day, either they help you or you'll need to do it during their extra curricular time & they miss out (or sort themselves out as above). Imo it's about respecting both your time and the family home.
But yeah, it's all easier said than done, I get it!
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I don't think your dd is going to fix this personality or dynamic that she's married into. I feel for her, as these issues often become very apparent after babies, when you're already dealing with a lot.
I think she and dsil need to think about what they need, and be proactive about directing it. Don't let his mom just come and sit around all weekend. Give her clear, explicit information about how to help, preferably her son should be the one to explain and be around to 'enforce'. If she's a good'un she'll be thankful for a concrete way to help. If she's a drama queen, she'll probably flounce & sulk and then your dd & dsil get to have a quiet weekend (if dsil holds his nerve).
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Drag Story time
in The Chat Board
Posted
Offender rate correlates with sex not gender identity. Actually, transwomen have a worse rate than other males in some instances - but I don't think you want to go there...