Garga, now I am a bit less anxious than I was going to bed last night. My dh shakes his head at why I'm even on here. He thinks women can be downright scary :) I love it though. I think reading and seeing how women think is fascinating. And I'm with you on the villifying a MIL on here. Funny how one post can disintegrate, lol. I've had that happen too. Were you around when posts took forever to show up and people would be soo far down their own rabbit hole by the time the page flipped - it wasn't even applicable anymore? I must say though, folks seemed to be a lot less quick to take offense back then. So much dissension on the boards lately :( So glad we've been able to discuss the misunderstanding in a mature and unemotional way. Thank you for sticking to your point :) and for understanding mine.

"I do like the idea of how you said you wanted to get ideas of what people thought of Martha and then compare them to what the scriptures say. I do think you'll get a lot (LOT) of different opinions of what people think of Martha--some will vilify her, some will give her the benefit of the doubt, and some will fall somewhere in between. (And Mary, too.)" I am so glad you understand my intention. Sorry for the confusion. There is so much I am hitting on as I'm planning to speak. The judgement of her sister, the bitterness in her heart and most importantly the fact that Jesus does NOT condemn her, He graceFULLy and carefully (and spot on I think as He hits right at the key issue) redirects her. Thanks, Garga. I am really finding this all beneficial and at first was concerned I had greatly offended :)

I'm so amazed at all the different responses. I'm swaying from wishing I hadn't posted to being very very glad I did. Martha - I loved your blog post. We would be good friends, lol. I am drawing out the anxiety, the troubled and worried words are key for me. Her being distracted outwardly about the serving meant she was distracted in her heart in the presence of the Lord. Bitterness and anxiety are never helpful when we're seeking intimacy. elroisees (what a beautiful name)...I agree but I must ask you...tell me more :)))))))))))))

Ok, thanks Garga. I'm going to keep looking at it all. Maybe it is just a difference of the way I'm communicating, which doesn't seem to be very clearly. I was just saying her being carried away by all the distractions is a key focus but I think it is also important to note her attention - if at least for a few moments and not a general attitude she exhibits throughout life- was on Martha and how she was sitting and NOT helping. As given by her telling the Lord to help her. Her comment "do you not care" is also indicative, in my opinion, of how she felt about what was going on between Mary and Jesus. Had her desire been purely to serve, what was happening in the other room wouldn't matter to her. I'm thinking the same thing about the time Jesus says to Peter in John 21. http://utmost.org/what-is-that-to-you/ Definitely not disagreeing with you, I'm very interested in hearing other opinions. My reason for the OP was to see what women, who may OR MAY NOT know this story, think of Martha and Mary both. I so appreciate everyone's response.

MY response is the same as regentrude's. Just want to post something from my experience that may be of help. Be sure you get the gallbladder function test that watches food actually move through your gallbladder. They have 2 tests. One where they put a fatty IV liquid through your system, and then do an ultrasound or some type of scan. The other is where you actually eat eggs laced with something, lol and they watch that over the course of an hour and measure the actual functioning of the gallbladder. Google HIDA scan...? It wasn't painful really so I was assuming it would show nothing. I was living with a very very low functioning gallbladder all those years! Back when I had the first test, it showed nothing wrong and I never had stones so that never showed up on an ultrasound either. They dismissed gallbladder altogether. I suffered needlessly for YEARS and when my gb finally went, it was four months and a loss of about 25 pounds before I could get myself into surgery. This sounds crazy but if you can go to McDs and eat a Big Mac, large fry and milkshake with no symptoms or pain, it probably isn't your gb. A meal like that would probably have killed me, lol. Even now that mine is out, if I eat a high fat meal (think lasagna and buttery garlic bread with cheesecake), I know within 30 minutes it was a mistake~

"I don't think it's necessarily indicative of personality, but of recognizing when we're in a situation where we are getting anxious/irritable and choosing the alternative." Sooo the point of what I'm going to talk about... thank you! I actually read the term used for Martha's getting up was one of getting up to assert herself of something like that, I think Martha gets into trouble when she starts attacking Jesus :) in that very situation, tell her to help me and Lord don't you care aren't statements that reflect a great heart attitude. Normal to all of us and proven attitudes of my own heart, but ones I'd like to overcome~

I must say though, in my defense, lol...Martha could be a "busybody" according to this definition by urban dictionary, lol. "The kind of person you just want to punch in the mouth for being so xx annoying. They have no life and way too much time on their hands. They frequently use their excessive amount of time to annoy and monitor others, taddletale for small meaningless xxx, butt into everybody's business except their own, and spy on people as if they think they are a cop or an important person or something. ... Busy bodies are usually self-righteous hypocrites that are quick to point out the faults in others but get defensive when you point out theirs." This does fit her...don't you think?

Thanks, Garga for all that. I wholeheartedly agree. I should clarify, I am looking for those presuppositions so we can talk about what is given through scripture and what is heresay throughout female culture. I intend to take each verse and define and support whatever I say through scripture, I come from a verse by verse teaching church and as a primary representative speaking about the topic, take this very thing seriously. I should have said I'm hoping to hear those judgements we make against them both so I can compare that to the words and "judgement" of Christ regarding the situation. I'd love to hear ideas that we have in our heads of who each "was". (especially homeschool moms who are natually do-ers anyway. I so appreciate your devotion to truth. I sincerely am going to try my best to do just that~

I'm with you, Joker. I was worried I might be doing something wrong because my kids do exactly what you described. Now I see others are talking about kids interjecting just for the sake of dissenting or getting attention, or whatever... Here was my question, and I think we got off topic from it, which is fine...but I was asking if any interrupting is considered by the Hive as rude... "I'm just asking...would a child who comments on what is being said aloud even though not directed at them personally be considered rude by the general public? I don't mean the child would be disrespectful in WHAT they say, I just mean their saying ANYTHING if not directly invited to the conversation??? "

We're covering Martha and Mary at our women's retreat and I'm looking for general descriptors for each... I'd have to say, upon beginning to research it fully, most women think of a Martha as a busybody, one who is discontent with her own lot and continuously active trying to achieve recognition I think of a Mary as having a quiet spirit, exhibiting meekness and gentleness to everyone, while being a worshipper at all times. OOOOh how I want to be a Mary, lol. edited to correct spelling, I should edit more to correct the grammar...

I've been thinking about my original question. I am affirmed in my decision to include my kids on any conversations that take place in public here in our home. If they aren't welcome, it is one that will be carried to a private place. I LOVE that they feel welcome and have things to add. That, in my humble opinion, is a blessing to them. IF they are disrespectful, attempt to manipulate or dominate the conversation, or they forget their place as children in the midst of adults or display an attitude of unwillingness to be taught, that's when we will have to address the situation. That said, I have to admit, you all have prompted me to want to begin talking with them about the politeness of respecting adult conversations and waiting for cues to enter a conversation. Those things definitely wouldn't hurt their social knowledge, lol. These posts are great reminders that we are all different and all come from different social environments. I don't want to teach them people pleasing but at the same time want them to learn respect for everyone. I have to say, I think my kids carry their comfort with conversation here at home into the world and that makes me, well, downright proud :) They're amazing, thoughtful, courteous and can outwelcome and outlove many adults I know when it comes to conversing. We're on the right track but always have more to learn.

As the OP, thanks to everyone for your comments. I wish we had nameplates that said, from the south or from the north, lol Here where I live...this... "To me, when a third (or fourth or whatever) person comes in, not including them is rude" would get me in big trouble at church. If Sue were coming up to a group of Meg, Julie and myself and I did not take time to stop talking, be sure Sue knew everyone and caught her up on what we were talking about OR changed the subject, we would be considered a "clique" and she just might get offended. I'm not kidding in the least. As a "greeter" at my church, I am all morning making sure Sue knows Meg and taking time to include Julie, even if she is quiet. We are known throughout our area as a very welcoming place. Maybe this is part of the reason. We would NOT leave Sue out, even if the original three were in an intense personal conversation. It would be bad form here. Just sayin'. And yes, we are in the south. Bible belt, southern country folk :)

hornblower... as the daughter of an alcoholic narcissitic mom who got pregnant when she was VERY young, I struggle with modeling and enforcing healthy discipline methods instead of going back to what I naturally absorbed throughout my childhood. I was intrigued by your links and just knowing there are other ways of correcting behaviors gave me a quick lift of my spirits this morning. Thanks for sharing, and I sent DH your youtube clip about reinforcing with chocolate. In a house of almost all girls, that would work well, lol. JK (kind of) I know that's not a healthy thing, but it was funny to see in action, lol.

I want to add this from the Free Dictionary site... Children should be seen and not heardProv. Children should not speak in the presence of adults. (Often used as a way to rebuke a child who has spoken when he or she should not.) You may come out and meet the party guests if you'll remember that children shouldbe seen and not heard. My elderly very southern relatives quoted this often, but usually when THEY wanted the floor. At other times, it was quite different. Yes MAAM's were required only when you were in trouble and were usually demanded in an authoritative tone. It wasn't something that was positively taught or reinforced, it was something that was demanded in a rude, self serving way. That could be why I shy away from both. (although I have to admit after hanging out with some very! polite and uplifting country folk I am seriously tempted to make Yes Ma'am-ing a new rule around here - soooo respectful when done appropriately, I think)

This just got me thinking. "Two people (especially parents, but really all people) should be able to have a conversation without bystanders (or children) butting in, " quoted from the thread about one gal's ObCD parenting issues... In our home, if DH and I were having a serious conversation my children would not interrupt. HOWEVER, any other conversation said in the common rooms is fair game. We are all together, alot, there are also many people in this house. If I say anything, I and my very verbal girls take that as a cue that communication is welcome. Otherwise, it wouldn't be said out loud, right :) I think the example in that thread of the children being allowed to enter the conversation is healthy. It promotes unity and I think my kids would perceive the openness as a general spirit of welcome - not sure how to word that...sorry. Well, maybe that scenario wasn't a good example of what I'm trying to say because they were bickering - but most times my gang wouldn't be attacking each other...note I said most times, lol. If we are going to have a conversation that doesn't fit that criteria where comments are welcome, we try to move to our own room. I'm just asking...would a child who comments on what is being said aloud even though not directed at them personally be considered rude by the general public? I don't mean the child would be disrespectful in WHAT they say, I just mean their saying ANYTHING if not directly invited to the conversation??? Am I making sense? I'm an extreme extrovert living in a house with only three introverts. My children are very comfortable in social situations although I do notice end up being the center of attention quite often. Now I'm wondering if maybe their "butting in" has something to do with that and it isn't necessarily a good thing...

Thanks, everyone. I should explain our lawn is super tiny right now, so mowing is a 10 minute job :) It's also 50 degrees or so today. :) Everything has been very helpful and you've given me lots of ideas.

Cute video - thanks for the rec about this company. Perfect for what I need. http://women.duluthtrading.com/store/product/womens-heirloom-gardening-overalls-with-capri-snaps-56955.aspx And PINK overalls, lol??? Too cute.

Thanks, everyone! I can't believe you ladies don't mow, though. I'm going to talk to my husband about that, lol.

This is the one I have...makes me look like a horror movie serial killer when I wear it with my bandanna and carry my machete!! http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/ce-schmidtreg%3B-mens-relaxed-fit-navy-coverall Maybe I'll scare the copperheads away, lol.

Blackjack - if I ran into you with that T3 Tilly on, I would just stare and keep staring. In a good way. That type dress is so foreign from my surf days living beachside I don't even know what to say. I used to wear a bathing suit bikini most of the day, then move to my white high top tennis shoes and scrunched socks with this as a cover up, lol. http://www.territoryahead.com/item/144566/601703802/Nueva-Baja-Pullover?kpid=144566+MULT+S&kpid=144566%20MULT%20S&gclid=CLaIx4DHpcQCFYQ2gQodl0UAmg Now I'm grown up, much! more modest and living hours and hours from a beach. But the woods, there is some magical about them~! I'm impressed. That's what I'll say. I'd love to hang out with you on one of those adventures, sounds awesome. I'm just cutting a walking trail, digging some flower beds and veggie beds but it is glorious to me! Can't wait for summer!!! Thanks for taking the time to respond, everyone. All of the replies were helpful~

Gander Mountain looks awesome~ I thought they only had hunting stuff. Found these... http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Guide-Series-Womens-Essential-Cargo-Pant&i=784315 are they like what you would wear?

Blackjack - tell me more! This is what I am asking on another thread too - about working AND going into public. Pants especially - what pants would you wear for this...exactly :) PLEASE HELP ME, lol.

"Unless I am dressed to get dirty, I have a harder time completing a task like packing or yard work." This is such! a part of my life right now~ Same with exercise. I'm more inclined to walk/run or work outside if I'm already dressed for it. And cleaning. Wearing a skirt at home sounds so romantic. Until I walk into the bathroom and notice the toilet is dirty, lol.

Perfect Laura! Sorry to be silly, but what are lined trousers? Pants with a lining inside? Last flannel shirt I tried on fit fine in the store, I bought it and it has gaped at the chest ever since I washed it ;( Maybe I should try again, in a bigger size, lol.

Ellie, you sound like you have it all together. I don't think even when I try I could be prepared for the Ladies Society! :)