Writing Tales Level 1 or Classical Writing Aesop

[bfw0729]

I have been using WWE and Rod and Staff English for the last couple of years. Wanted to switch for this year (maybe) and thought to try something different and return to WWE and R&S. I have a 4th grader and two 5th graders. We just completed WWE 3 (for all the kids) and Rod and Staff Enlish 3 and 4 with respect to their grade levels. I was thinking to switch to WT or CW. How long does each of these curricula take in a day? Is the grammar enough? 

 

For the fifth graders, I was thinking that in 6th grade, they can return to R&S and complete English 5 independently. If I had them do English 5 this year, they would need me to teach each lesson. My kids are still very dependent on me (including the 4th grader) and I directly work with them several hours a day. I also have a toddler and preschooler. I was hoping they could have some independence in 6th grade and work on English on their own. It would be English 5 so the material wouldn't be too difficult for when they are in 6th grade. 

 

I hope this all makes sense.

Edited June 27, 2017 by bfw0729

[Guest]

We went from cottage press to writing Tales and cle language arts.

 

If you expect any kind of rigorous at all, no the grammar is not "enough" in wt. But if my son had done a year or two of rod and staff beforehand I would have been completely fine just doing a year with wt and not-rigorous grammar!

 

We usually spent about twenty minutes a day on wt. This was with an 8 year old. If there was more left to do, I'd still just have him stop around twenty minutes and pick it up next time. If you don't do it that way, lesson times are variable.

 

DS and I both loved wt1!

[PeterPan]

If I'm understanding you correctly, WT2, done with the once a week co-op lessons, would be a better fit than WT1. Can they write ANYTHING write now? Can they do a simple oral narration? WT2 is going to hit more appropriate grammar to their level and have longer, more intriguing models. The grammar in WT1 is much, much simpler and the models will be much shorter. It's easy to let them have the grammar analysis of WT2 but shorten the requirements if the model length is overwhelming. When I taught it to a co-op group with a wide variety of levels, the older students, even with disabilities, had no problem in WT2. We did the co-op lessons, assigning the remaining work as independent work during the week. Worked great.

 

[RootAnn]

If I'm understanding you correctly, WT2, done with the once a week co-op lessons, would be a better fit than WT1. Can they write ANYTHING right now? Can they do a simple oral narration? WT2 is going to hit more appropriate grammar to their level and have longer, more intriguing models. The grammar in WT1 is much, much simpler and the models will be much shorter. It's easy to let them have the grammar analysis of WT2 but shorten the requirements if the model length is overwhelming. When I taught it to a co-op group with a wide variety of levels, the older students, even with disabilities, had no problem in WT2. We did the co-op lessons, assigning the remaining work as independent work during the week. Worked great.

:iagree:  I also agree that if you insist on rigorous grammar every year, you won't be happy with the grammar in WT1 or 2. However, it is perfectly fine, IMO, for a lighter grammar year. The models in WT2 start off shorter than they ended in WT1. Overall, they are longer than the ones in WT1, though.

 

Our lessons were 20-30 minutes depending on the games we played and how much DD balked at writing. Those were good years!

[bfw0729]

They just finished WWE 3 and they did a nice job with it. They could narrate a story and did dictation well. I had an old post about dropping one level of WWE when my older kids were in the middle of 3rd grade and that helped tremendously. They also work on composition through R&S and could write three to four paragraphs without any of my assistance. They can follow writing directives that are given through R&S, after we have read them together. When they write, they do that on their own. They also write in their journals about 2-3 times a week. j

 

Their concern about writing is that it might take too long. WWE doesn't take a long time and composition from R&S is only once every three weeks or so. I'm leaning toward Classical Writing because it seems to encompass more grammar and if I could work on grammar and writing together and that takes about 45 min a day then we're in. 

w

Also, there's another program called Intermediate Language Lessons through MFW. I believe it's only English and no writing, right? 

[bfw0729]

:iagree:  I also agree that if you insist on rigorous grammar every year, you won't be happy with the grammar in WT1 or 2. However, it is perfectly fine, IMO, for a lighter grammar year. The models in WT2 start off shorter than they ended in WT1. Overall, they are longer than the ones in WT1, though.

 

Our lessons were 20-30 minutes depending on the games we played and how much DD balked at writing. Those were good years!

I might want this year to be a lighter grammar year and get back to R&S the following year. That way they could be a little more independent. 

[bfw0729]

If I'm understanding you correctly, WT2, done with the once a week co-op lessons, would be a better fit than WT1. Can they write ANYTHING write now? Can they do a simple oral narration? WT2 is going to hit more appropriate grammar to their level and have longer, more intriguing models. The grammar in WT1 is much, much simpler and the models will be much shorter. It's easy to let them have the grammar analysis of WT2 but shorten the requirements if the model length is overwhelming. When I taught it to a co-op group with a wide variety of levels, the older students, even with disabilities, had no problem in WT2. We did the co-op lessons, assigning the remaining work as independent work during the week. Worked great.

So if I decided on WT, you would recommend level 2? I should look at their samples. You're right, level 2 does look more appropriate. How long does it take in a day? I likely would stick with four days a week, which is what I did with R&S and WWE. 

[nixpix5]

We went from cottage press to writing Tales and cle language arts.

 

If you expect any kind of rigorous at all, no the grammar is not "enough" in wt. But if my son had done a year or two of rod and staff beforehand I would have been completely fine just doing a year with wt and not-rigorous grammar!

 

We usually spent about twenty minutes a day on wt. This was with an 8 year old. If there was more left to do, I'd still just have him stop around twenty minutes and pick it up next time. If you don't do it that way, lesson times are variable.

 

DS and I both loved wt1!

Do you know if WT1 and WR 1 are too similar? I cannot get a feel for WT1 from the samples but am intrigued because so many people like it. I have one son who will do CPP1 next year and I was trying to figure out next steps. Too many choices... ;)

[Guest]

Do you know if WT1 and WR 1 are too similar? I cannot get a feel for WT1 from the samples but am intrigued because so many people like it. I have one son who will do CPP1 next year and I was trying to figure out next steps. Too many choices... ;)

I haven't seen writing and rhetoric, sorry.

[Renai]

This is ILL that MFW used to recommend. https://archive.org/details/intermediatelan01serlgoog There was some writing, but not many compositions, if I remember correctly.

 

They've updated the book and sell their own versions now- Language Lessons for Today.

[Renai]

Also, if I remember correctly, CW isn't an independent curriculum for kids to do on their own. But, I did some of it when it first came out and it might have changed since then.

[PeterPan]

CW is very stiff, where WT is going to have games, background on the stories, lots of fun activities. It's just a lot more FUN. 

 

I had the kids do editing while we did WT2. We used some workbooks from Critical Thinking Press and also a Take 5 Minutes History Fact a Day editing. I think you can buy the Take 5 as an ebook still. Iirc, I printed the editing, cut it into strips, and wrote the number of errors on the strips. The CTP editing was good stuff, really making you THINK about the editing. 

 

Remember too, the grammar will be what you make of it. The whole point of integrating grammar into your writing program is to make the grammar APPLIED. So you can do cumulative analysis of the models, making it more challenging. You can diagram if you want to, sure. We did more grammar analysis of the models than what the tm specified. It was easy and a pleasure. I had the kids use colored markers and we just kept a running list and analyzed the models. We also did that analysis on their drafts, a la IEW. Some kids have sentence variety very naturally, and some don't. I wouldn't be too heavy-handed with it, but there's enough instruction that it's there for you if you want to do it.

 

We got through the entire co-op lesson, including games, editing exercises, etc., in a normal class session. I forget if it was 1 hour, 1 1/2, but it was kind of a normal length of time. I'm sure how long they spent after that varied, but in general a normal amount per day would be totally adequate.

 

The main thing is how FUN WT is. There's humor, creativity, fun, charm. CW is not making any attempt to be that. I did quite a bit of CW with my dd, but I much preferred the time we spent with WT.  :)

[nixpix5]

Doss anyone know why the Writing Tales website is gone? I also saw a note on Exodus Books that they are clearancing them and won't be rebuying any. I did see them on LuLu so maybe that is where they will be from now on? Just found that odd...I was hoping to use them in the future with one of my sons.