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May need to re-think freshman science


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Dd wants to go to high school part-time.  She is a very social person.  We had been meeting her social needs by having several small co-ops with other families that we have known for years.  However, we are finding that she has outgrown them academically.  They are still very close friends, but none of them were ready to move on to Chemistry.  They are doing Earth Science.  We did high school Biology last year.   I just don't think I have it in me to teach Chemistry to one kid next year.  I need a group with due dates to keep us on track.  I had hoped to form another co-op, but we really don't have any other high school aged kids in our area who would be open to a secular science class.  Not doing Apologia here. 

 

So, we looked at the very well-regarded high school for science.  Her options are Earth Science (that we have done to death) or Honors Chemistry.  I figured Honors Chem would be challenging, but I felt that if she buckled down this summer to finish up Algebra and did the Teaching Company high school Chem course this summer, she would be ready.  Well, her definition of buckling down and mine did not match.  She is not done with Algebra.  We had been doing Singapore Math (Discovering Mathematics), but I switched to Khan Academy this summer to make sure that she got everything in since Singapore does not follow a traditional scope and sequence.  She is less than half-way through the Chemistry video course (which mainly focuses on the math needed for Chemistry - not a full course.) 

 

Our high school is filled with honors students - over 25% have a GPA above a 4 due to honors weighting.  Most of the families I know say that the non-honors courses tend to be not very challenging and are filled with kids who don't care much about school - not the environment I want my daughter to be in.  Hence, the Honors chem for freshman.  The other science track doesn't have them taking Chem until junior year and they are unwilling to put her in that one. 

 

The organized coops in our area are filled with YEC and, from past experience, the classes are not very challenging, they are not taught well (read the book, reiterate what was in the book, fill in a worksheet) and they are boring.

 

So, what do I do with dd?  She does not really want to do an online class - she saw her brothers do that and doesn't think it is for her.  Not opposed to online environment as she is taking Latin online and may take a Bravewriter class or two, but she does not want to do science online.  We do have an option of a Science Olympiad group - they are a very successful group.  But, I am hesitant because many of the families are evangelical Christians of the Young Earth Creationist flavor and I have had bad experiences with them in the past (shunning me and my kids in a vary obvious "you Catholics are evil heathens" way.)  Plus, I am not sure how to put that on a transcript. 

 

If we do an online class, are there any that have synchronous meeting times and good lab portions that are not watered down "the math is too hard" types of classes? 

 

Sorry if this is rambling.  I just feel under the gun as I am meeting with the high school counselor on Wednesday and know that many classes are filling up. 

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They don't offer Honors Chemistry to Juniors, only to freshmen.  Juniors who are not on that track take regular chemistry.  Weird, but it is what it is.   But, my problem is ... I need a science option for her this year.  We are so not doing their stupid "Dynamic Earth Systems" course.  I perused the textbook at the library - BTDT.  The only way that could be a high school class is lots and lots of extra work (which seems to be a theme - we are a rigorous high school - if the kids are not complaining about homework, its not enough.) 

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How does she feel about taking the class at the high school? It may be challenging, but how does she operate under a challenge? Can you help her a little bit with the math if she needs it? If she is one to be inspired by competition and really loves the class atmosphere, I'd lean towards letting her take the high school course.

 

If she has trouble in the first quarter, you could always pull her out and do chemistry at home with something like Spectrum (which is from a Christian publisher, but there really isn't a lot of Christian content other than the last lesson, which is easily skipped). My son used Spectrum in the 9th grade and then when on to take Gen Chem I & II at the CC his senior year and did great. He loved all the labs with Spectrum.

 

Best wishes whatever you decide,

Brenda

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I thought I saw AP Biology and AP Chemistry listed on the new WTM Academy list of courses.  But when I look now it just says "Intro to" each.  I am not sure if I am remembering wrong or if they changed that, but maybe you could ask.  I know you said she wasn't too excited about an online class, but thought I'd mention that because I was considering AP Biology for my son.  

 

Is there a possibility for her to take Chem at the CC or local uni another year?  I would maybe try to not think too black and white, like either she takes Honors Chem right now or she will never have a chance to take a challenging chem course at all.  There could be lots of other options.

 

However, does she want to take this class at the HS?  Is the HS totally open to having her take it?  (Our HS is very stingy, especially with science classes, and basically tells homeschoolers that they can't just pick and choose the best classes, they have to sign up for all or nothing.  Unfortunately, they think very black and white.)  Do they have a withdraw date before which her grade won't count?   If she feels like she is ready, and wants to take it, you could always let her try it, but pull her out if it is over her head.  However, if they don't have that as an option, and she could potentially have a poor grade on her record at the school, I think I might want to give more thought to whether or not she is ready for it.

 

And just out of curiosity, what is their Honors science sequence?  I have never heard of a high school doing chem in 9th.  When do they do Honors Physics and Bio?

 

Will she be in 9th or 10th?  When you did HS Bio last year, would you consider that AP or Honors or regular?  Does she plan on taking AP or Honors Bio at some point?

 

 

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However, just as another thought, as a homeschooler, your DD will be in a position to really give more time to the class.  So, if it does turn out to be a little more challenging than she expected, she will have the extra time to really study more and make it work.  Although we have never done that, from what I have heard from friends, most of the time the challenging school class turns out to be not as bad as they thought it would be.

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I thought I saw AP Biology and AP Chemistry listed on the new WTM Academy list of courses.  But when I look now it just says "Intro to" each.  I am not sure if I am remembering wrong or if they changed that, but maybe you could ask.  I know you said she wasn't too excited about an online class, but thought I'd mention that because I was considering AP Biology for my son.  

 

Is there a possibility for her to take Chem at the CC or local uni another year?  I would maybe try to not think too black and white, like either she takes Honors Chem right now or she will never have a chance to take a challenging chem course at all.  There could be lots of other options.

 

However, does she want to take this class at the HS?  Is the HS totally open to having her take it?  (Our HS is very stingy, especially with science classes, and basically tells homeschoolers that they can't just pick and choose the best classes, they have to sign up for all or nothing.  Unfortunately, they think very black and white.)  Do they have a withdraw date before which her grade won't count?   If she feels like she is ready, and wants to take it, you could always let her try it, but pull her out if it is over her head.  However, if they don't have that as an option, and she could potentially have a poor grade on her record at the school, I think I might want to give more thought to whether or not she is ready for it.

 

And just out of curiosity, what is their Honors science sequence?  I have never heard of a high school doing chem in 9th.  When do they do Honors Physics and Bio?

 

Will she be in 9th or 10th?  When you did HS Bio last year, would you consider that AP or Honors or regular?  Does she plan on taking AP or Honors Bio at some point?

She is 9th grader who is not ready for AP for sure.  We did regular high school biology in 8th grade as part of a parent-led co-op (several parents got together and took turns leading the labs while the students did their course work at home.)  I really liked this way of doing things because it keeps us moving forward with deadlines.  But, I don't have anyone to do that with this year unless I want to do an uber religious class with Apologia. 

 

She is the one who wants to go to high school part-time.  I would much rather keep her home with me (for very selfish reasons - I will miss her terribly.)  But, she is very social and learns well in a group environment.  We are able to provide that for History and Literature, but no takers for Science.  Our high school is very amenable to this.  I know several people who have done this, plus, I have already met with the high school counselor once.  They are very relaxed about it once they learned that I don't expect a diploma from them - that I will be issuing my own.  They are much more stringent if you expect a diploma from the high school (which I don't see a need for - I've gotten two kids into college with my own diploma.)  Yes, they do have a withdraw date - thanks for reminding me.  I'll have to make a note of that. 

 

Their science sequence is difficult to follow.  I believe the honors sequence is Honors Chem in 9th, Ecological Biology or Molecular Bio in 10th, AP Physics 1 or a bio or chem elective in 11th, and an AP class in 12th. 

 

However, just as another thought, as a homeschooler, your DD will be in a position to really give more time to the class.  So, if it does turn out to be a little more challenging than she expected, she will have the extra time to really study more and make it work.  Although we have never done that, from what I have heard from friends, most of the time the challenging school class turns out to be not as bad as they thought it would be.

I am not sure if she will have a lot more time since she is a competitive athlete, but it is good to remember that she will have lots of support at home with her parents, plus her science geek brothers are available by Skype.  I guess I am nervous because I had hoped she would be so much further along by now in preparation for this. 

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The description of the high school provided by other families sounds a lot like the school I went too.  The "honors" track was for the kids who actually wanted to learn something and were headed to a 4-year college after graduation.  The next track down were for the kids who were smart, but didn't feel like working.  Then there was a 3rd track for the kids who had learning or disciplinary challenges. 

 

I would say go ahead and put her in the honors course, but her math level may make things more challenging.  Maybe consider skipping science this year and focusing on math ... with the goal of finishing Algebra I and Geometry.  Most colleges only require 3 years of a lab science so you would still have time to complete this.  You could also double up on science another year. 

 

Another option might be a course focusing on a specific field of biology ... ecology, anatomy, botany, cell biology, etc.  I'd also take a look at some of the popular MOOC sites (edx.org, coursera.org, salyor.org) and see if there is a course or two that interests her.

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I wouldn't do Honors Chem at school if she is a competitive athlete and not finished with her Algebra course. That really sounds like asking for trouble in every way.

 

-- rushing the Algebra instruction, which will cause problems later

-- starting to think she's bad at science b/c it will be too challenging

-- not really having extra time to deal with this course

 

I'm sorry to be the downer here because I can hear your frustration (and time crunch to solve this) but I just wanted to say I wouldn't do it. I am so sorry the other hs'ers doing co-ops and classes are not inclusive. That stinks.

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We are probably going to do Derek Owens honors physics this year for 9th grade. I also wish that we had a group to do it with, and I would gladly teach it, but we don't have a large enough group of homeschoolers here. However, I am hoping to convince at least 1 or 2 friends to participate in the labs with us. That way, he can work on the course online, but we can do labs with at least one or two friends.

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Most of my kids ended up taking Chemistry at our local high school, but one of them did Conceptual Chemistry at home, with the textbook and online.  They have lots of online activities, quizzes, etc..  It is a public school textbook but is not math-heavy, so where she is at in math would not be a problem.  Also, the author was very good about responding to my questions and working with homeschoolers in general.

 

 

 

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Well, I signed her up today for Chemistry.  I had my boys go over what she has done in math and what she would need in the class and they feel that they can get her ready with the few things she needs in the next 2 weeks.  I talked with the counselor and she feels that her preparation with Singapore Math and its emphasis on problem solving in novel situations will serve her well.  So, we are just going to keep working through the Teaching Company Chemistry course (which focuses on the problem solving aspect of Chemistry) so that she will be more comfortable. 

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