Couldn't believe it until I saw it

[DarlaS]

I don't understand how the claim can be "severe neglect" when even CPS/police first viewed the family IN a hospital?

 

I'm not getting in to any CPS bashing, because it's true that we don't know both sides of the story, but the above baffles me. There is no evidence presented that they refused any treatment. There is evidence that they sought a second opinion. This sounds like the exact opposite of neglect, IMO.

 

 

Good point. Since when do parents who severely neglect their kids take them to hospitals? That's where all the mandatory reporters are. If they are calling that severe neglect, what words do they have left for those that really do severely neglect their kids? :huh:

 

There's probably no better way to make a doctor irate than signing an infant out AMA. Especially if they've just recommended heart surgery. That had to have made a lot of people very very displeased. And since they were giving the baby the wrong meds, I don't blame them one bit for wanting to get him out of there.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

If I am understanding the timeline the child was removed from the family after CPS came to the second hospital and left, meaning they took custody in the next day or two. I suspect (but of course don't know) that the child wasn't taken because they moved hospitals. If there was an immediate concern while in the hospital CPS would've taken custody when at the second hospital.

 

Yes this could fully be a CPS/Arrogant doctor screw up, but I suspect there is more to the story based on when they did (and did not) take custody of the child.

[Lurker]

CPS cannot just take a child. A petition has to be filed first. So there had to be enough issues/concern for a judge to approve a petition for cps to take custody originally.

[chicagoshannon]

I can see why the original doctor called CPS. He thought the baby needed open heart surgery and the parents said they wanted a second opinion and left the hospital. If I really thought a baby needed surgery I might have called to for CPS to make sure the parents were actually getting that second opinion.

 

CPS should have been satisfied after seeing the baby was at the other hospital.

 

This may be a case where one arm of CPS didn't communicate with another arm.

 

Either way it seems absolutely unnecessary to accost father, steal his keys and let themselves into the house.

[Parrothead]

I'm more than willing to believe this was a CYA attempt by an arrogant doctor who called CPS. I totally believe it is possible. Seems that about a third of the time CPS gets it right. The other two thirds are not taking kids when they should and taking kids who have no business being taken from the home.

 

But why the video camera? She must really have had great presence of mind to get the nanny cam and set it up so well while her husband was being wrestled to the ground by police. That is kind of a sticking point for me to entirely believe the parents.

[Truscifi]

I can see why the original doctor called CPS. He thought the baby needed open heart surgery and the parents said they wanted a second opinion and left the hospital. If I really thought a baby needed surgery I might have called to for CPS to make sure the parents were actually getting that second opinion.

 

CPS should have been satisfied after seeing the baby was at the other hospital.

 

This may be a case where one arm of CPS didn't communicate with another arm.

 

Either way it seems absolutely unnecessary to accost father, steal his keys and let themselves into the house.

 

A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that it couldn't possibly be a medical neglect case because the parents took him to another hospital. And it is possible that it isn't. But it is also possible that the parents took the baby to the other hospital for treatment for the flu symptoms *and failed to give them relevant information* about the child's medical history or issues. Again, we don't know what CPS felt the danger was, and we won't *because they can't tell us*.

 

Also, it was a police officer, not a CPS worker, who was involved in the incident with the father.

[FaithManor]

I'm more than willing to believe this was a CYA attempt by an arrogant doctor who called CPS. I totally believe it is possible. Seems that about a third of the time CPS gets it right. The other two thirds are not taking kids when they should and taking kids who have no business being taken from the home.

 

But why the video camera? She must really have had great presence of mind to get the nanny cam and set it up so well while her husband was being wrestled to the ground by police. That is kind of a sticking point for me to entirely believe the parents.

 

I can understand this viewpoint. I really can. However, in my own defense though I am currently not under any suspicion :D, I can honestly say I am a very pragmatic, very level headed person when something "goes down" in front of me. I can truly see myself going for the video camera, a phone that videos, etc. Having once worked as a foster care respite worker, I have "document, document, document" drilled into my skull and it does affect me.

 

DD is a medic and I asked her and she said that yes, if this were happening to her husband, she absolutely would have the prescence of mind to very quickly and calmly look for video recording equipment. She would also be taking down a badge number and while she was videotaping with one hand, she would be on the phone to her lawyer's emergency number with the other.

 

Frankly, we were threatened once with CPS when we checked our baby out AMA. We had EXCELLENT cause and documentation to prove that they'd mixed his medical records with another infant's in the nursery and were trying to treat him for conditions he did not have...while also claiming he was deaf even though the audiologist came and said his hearing was fine. :glare: :banghead: Dh made two phone calls. The first was our lawyer and the second was our family physician (who was appalled by the way). The lawyer reminded them of our legal rights to have him evaluated elsewhere and told them that a call to CPS would constitute harrassment for which he would take legal action against the hospital since he could prove they were in the wrong and potentially harming our son to begin with, and our physician got the hospital administrator on the phone and asked him how much trouble he was willing for his hospital to be in when it came out that we were accused of endangering our son's life when in fact, the hospital was endangering him? There was no phone call to CPS, and it was the fastest checking out of a hospital you have ever seen.

 

We took ds directly to the physician, and he was not only not deaf, but also not experiencing liver and kidney failure...he most certainly would have been badly harmed if not killed had we cow-towed to the bullying and allowed those meds to be administered.

 

There has to be a balance between the hospital or doc advocating for the child, and the rights of the parents to advocate differently for the child. The path of moderation and common sense is not always easy to find.

 

That said, my sister is a social worker and I'm a big fan. She fights for the very lives of the kids on her case load every.single.day. and in a system that is entirely broken. But, she is also a document, document, document, person and she says "Y'all must stay calm under pressure and take the time to record conversations, make notes, demand medical records, etc." She has seen abuses herself.

 

Faith

[justasque]

Other medical professionals (physicians and nurses) at another facility have examined this baby and found him to be perfectly fit to go home with his parents. The doctors at the second facility told law enforcement and CPS workers that there was no cause for alarm. This makes the doctor who reported the family to CPS look awkward.

 

On further investigation, it was discovered that the reporting doctor had medicated the baby erroneously and admitted it in the presence of the parents and one other employee. When the parents became afraid that their baby was not receiving good care at this hospital, they took the baby to another hospital in the area to have him evaluated by physicians there who did not concur with the first doctor's assessment of "severe neglect." They stated the opposite, "the child was happy, playful, well hydrated and the parents seem entirely capable and concerned about his health."

 

• Well, the folks at the second hospital found no cause for alarm, but that means either 1) the first doc was way off-base, OR 2) the first doc saw something the second did not. We don't know which.

• The article says the second doc said in his "report" that there was no cause for worry, but we don't know if this was just a standard notation in the child's chart or a formal assessment of the child with an eye towards abuse, AND we don't know if he knew of the prior doctor's specific concerns, AND we don't know if CPS ever saw his report.

• We also don't know if the doc who prescribed the antibiotics was the doc who reported the family to CPS; according to the article, the baby was seen by several docs at the first hospital.

• And the video of the baby that was in the news story was taken two days before he went to the first hospital.

 

Personally, I'm guessing it was some kind of mix-up based on a miscommunication about the family's options (particularly, they got a second opinion from another hospital system; hospital staff often have their hands tied in that they are not allowed to refer to anyone outside their system), combined with the family "signing out AMA" - e.g. did they just leave, or did they do the official AMA paperwork and clearly communicate their plan to get a second opinion immediately.

 

We just don't know enough about the case to decide that one person is "arrogant" or an "idiot".

I'm not saying there was abuse or neglect or medical risk. But I'm not saying there wasn't either.

I don't have enough facts to judge.

[beaners]

I can understand this viewpoint. I really can. However, in my own defense though I am currently not under any suspicion :D, I can honestly say I am a very pragmatic, very level headed person when something "goes down" in front of me. I can truly see myself going for the video camera, a phone that videos, etc. Having once worked as a foster care respite worker, I have "document, document, document" drilled into my skull and it does affect me.

 

DD is a medic and I asked her and she said that yes, if this were happening to her husband, she absolutely would have the prescence of mind to very quickly and calmly look for video recording equipment. She would also be taking down a badge number and while she was videotaping with one hand, she would be on the phone to her lawyer's emergency number with the other.

 

 

 

I was thinking that too. Plus, CPS had already visited them at the hospital. If that had been me, I would have played and replayed every single possible outcome over and over in my head. If someone came to the door, I wouldn't have to think about what to do. I would have been thinking about that instead of sleeping since the hospital visit.

[Liz CA]

What Faith describes here is interesting. Perhaps this couple could have had a very different outcome had they contacted an attorney before they left the hospital. I don't know that I would have thought of that myself. I still think of myself - as a parent - as the person who makes the decision for my baby/child. I somehow don't believe that they intended harm for baby Sam since they took him immediately to another hospital from which they were discharged. In one of the interviews, the mother also said that the first doctor mentioned heart surgery but not imminent but as something to be considered down the road. Seems like in today's world don't leave home without your lawyer's phone number.

 

I have to say that I was a little surprised too that the lady had the presence of mind to videotape. Evidently she was rather shaken by the incident a day prior that she half expected something. Anyway, the tape speaks for itself and illustrates more uncalled for conduct, this time by the police.

I have a feeling Sacramento will remember this unfortunate incident for some time to come.

[justasque]

Is there a link to the video taken after the first hospital visit?

[Liz CA]

Is there a link to the video taken after the first hospital visit?

 

 

Do you mean this one?

 

http://www.news10.ne...d=2331091961001

 

And here is a new one:

 

http://www.news10.ne...from-CPS-police

 

It appears that the second doctor who evaluated the baby and assessed the situation as perfectly safe, was fully aware of the heart murmur issue.

[Dahliarw]

As for the videotaping, how many of you had a camcorder or something handy at all times when your firstborn was a baby? I know I had mine within grabbing distance at home, ready to go, in case he did something interesting like smile or roll over or say "ba". Hearing police outside assaulting my husband, all I would have had to do was push a button and begin filming. Nowadays I would actually have presence of mind to find my cell phone, turn it to camera mode, and hit record (8 1/2 years later).