TechWife Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I am gathering ideas for a photography credit for my son. He may be applying to a highly competitive design school and we need to shore up his transcript as far as the arts go. Right now I am aiming for at least a 1/2 credit hour, although 1 credit our would be fantastic. We have Fundamentals of Photography from The Great Courses. There are 24 lectures and each one has a homework assignment. The assignments look really good and each will take several hours to complete. There are books that are recommended for further reading & I am going to see if the public library has them. I can go to the university library if I have to, but I'd rather avoid it. I am hoping that I can find a photographer that is willing to let him shadow for a period of time as well, I think that would be fascinating for him. He would be more interested in shadowing a news photographer than a portrait photographer. A commercial photographer would be another possibility. He'd love it if I could find a forensic photographer for him to talk to, but I wouldn't even know how to go about finding one. I'm assuming he wouldn't be able to shadow a forensic photographer. We have the ability to enter one piece in the juried exhibition at the State Fair, should I have him do that as well? I've thought of having him put together a portfolio, but I'd have to research the various pieces that would need to be included in a photography portfolio. Surely that information can't be hard to find. He also has to start working on his portfolio for the design school, however that will include far more than photography. What other things can I include in this course? I'm not looking for filler, but I am looking for meaningful reading or experiences that would help him learn about the art of photography. All ideas appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Hmm, haven't seen that course, so I went to look at it. I'm wanting to put together a photography course for my dd. I took a number of classes this past year at a site Clickinmoms, which is FABULOUS. It's for moms of course. ;) Anyways, my observation is going to be on what you're *not* getting with this approach. You're definitely not learning photoshop this way. You're not getting any *feedback* on his shooting. The reviews on the TC course are saying specifically that he doesn't document the settings he used for the shots in the 2nd half of the course. So the student really has no way to imitate and study what's going on. Probably my favorite syllabus, of all the syllabi I've found so far by googling high school photog classes, is this one: http://www.desertoas...ssignments.html The way it blends a photoshop editing assignment with a shooting assignment each week seems pretty par for the course. Now I'll tell you that this hyper-fascination with photoshop may be typical of the male professional photographers teaching these classes (because I've been looking up the teachers' bios), but it's NOT the trend in many of the newer women, budding professional photographers on the discussion boards. There the trend is toward *Lightroom*. LR is also by adobe, and it's, well how to describe it? Lightroom is a precursor to Photoshop in a modern photography editing workflow, but it is being made so powerful that, for many basic purposes, LR totally replaces Photoshop. So *I* think, and this is just me, that it's valuable to teach both. What's REALLY happening is that photogs aren't actually teaching *editing* in these photog classes. Instead they are just teaching the kids to shoot jpg and use cool effects on them. Anyways, I'm on a rabbit trail. The point is, you do want to teach some form of editing or image manipulation as part of your course, because basically every course I found online includes it. And actually, many/most of the high school classes ALSO included instruction in traditional film photography. Believe it or not, people are still shooting film. In fact, not only are they shooting film, but some photogs intermix the two, doing each, or leave digital to go entirely to film. People just really vary. When you go to film, it teaches you to SLOW DOWN. There's a look to the grain, etc. some people like. And also, there are things you learn in the developing process (which yes, they're still teaching) that carry over into current digital image editing. For instance, the terms "burn" and "dodge" are a direct carryover from chemical film developing. I'm not saying you have to include them or ought to, but it's interesting to be aware of. It's possible to buy a kit for a pinhole camera, assemble (or make one yourself with inexpensive things around the house using directions online!) and explore the world of film. I've heard, but haven't done it myself, that you can find nice quality film SLRs around used for a song. So these things are there for him to *explore*. As far as actually learning the concepts of aperture and shutter speed and how manual shooting works, well yeah I can't think of anything better than using a digital camera. Are you planning on getting him a digital camera or using a p&s? (point and shoot) I'm not meaning to say your ideas are not good enough or inadequate or whatever. Maybe I'm just thinking out loud? It's something I've been researching on and off for a while now. My dd has been dabbling in LR. I want to take her over to PS, but it's destructive. LR is non-destructive editing, which means you can do ANYTHING you want, and the original is still there, safe and sound. The editing info goes in a sidecar file that gets saved. PS is destructive editing, which means it actually alters the pixels of the file. You *can* edit non-destructively in PS, but you can also screw stuff up when you don't know what you're doing. She likes to explore, so I want to teach her some things first before I turn her loose. Things like making sure we back up, hehe... :lol: Anyways, if I were only going to give my kid one author to read, it would be Bryan Peterson. If I were going to show videos, I'd get a subscription to Lynda.com. It's only $10 a month, and you can watch unlimited amounts by professional photogs who are fabulous, fabulous teachers. EVERYTHING you can imagine is there. Love, love, love Lynda.com CreativeLive.com is also good. There you're buying a specific class. The classes generally are stellar. Occasionally you'll have one that is slower than I can tolerate. But truly, they're excellent classes. Next week they're going to do a whole week of Photoshop! Send him over and let him take the plunge! If he wants to learn, there's really no better way. Then he'll know if a class format like that works for him. My uber-fav photog Jared Platt is going to be teaching next week. Also Lesa Snyder will be teaching. My dd watched part of Lesa Snyder's graphic design class a few weeks ago and enjoyed it. The website is CreativeLive.com You can watch the classes live, or they rebroadcast them all through the evening. Hmm, what else? One thing I think these kids need is peer discussion and feedback. I thought it might be fun to have a little yahoo group or FB group or something (FB is actually fabulous for this, even though in general I don't let my dd on FB). Maybe there are already groups like that? There are public photography discussion boards where you can share your stuff and ask for feedback. I think they'll be happy to give him feedback. The main thing is to state what his grade is, what the assignment was, and to have a THICK SKIN. You can't grow unless you open yourself to that kind of criticism. I do like the assignments at that DesertOasis high school website. Notice I think they're for 4 years of photography classes, so you have to scroll to the bottom to find year 1 assignments. They're really age-appropriate though and good about combining a new skill, something creative, and then an editing technique to learn. Oh, two more things! One, adobe gives educator discounts, and as a homeschooler you qualify. Two, make sure your computer is singing happy and ready for this if that's what you decide to plunge into. I'm just realizing you said you *have* this TC course already. So what are the assignments like? Again, it's not getting him into editing or giving him any constructive criticism. I'd complete that course in a semester and move on to something else like a Photoshop class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Hadn't seen that shootflyshoot.com website before. Interesting! Just for your (or nobody's) trivia, ACR that they're showing as part of what they teach in their 102 course is sort of the alternate world version of Lightroom. Adobe owns ALL these things. ACR and LR have basically identical sliders where they overlap in function. It's just that LR has a whole bunch of organizational features (like it can edit video, create directories and tags, make photobooks, slide shows, you name it), where ACR *only* does a basic screen. ACR then expects you to go to Bridge (sigh, yes another program!) to organize. And, believe it or not, some people like Bridge for certain things that it can do that LR can't! LR can do much more sophisticated tool edits (that ACR can't) that eliminate the need for PS for many users. And of course PS Elements that they're teaching is the runt sister of full Photoshop. It can do a lot, but it, last I knew, didn't have curves. I don't know how anyone lives without curves, so I'd just go ahead and learn full Photoshop. But it's just the market. PSE (Elements) has a price advantage. Once you have curves though and know how to use them, there's no going back. Those guys' camera is old btw, shooting Canon 5d. The current model is a 5dmiii. I have no clue if they just chopped that or what their qualifications are (vs. what they claim in their bio), etc. etc. I'm assuming it's fine and of course the course is moving people UP, which is good. I just thought that was a little odd. Neat site though, good idea, very practical. It's a lot like the type of courses I took on Clickinmoms. It's just there we got the benefit of feedback and discussion and constructive criticism. I think that's very important. Some people melt the first time someone criticizes their work. It's definitely a think that has to be learned how to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yeah I really don't know anything about them except what they said in their bios. They do seem like good, reasonable beginner courses. Some people use ACR as a step into PS, and some people use LR then PS. I was just explaining so you could know what you were looking at and how it related to what I was saying. Yes, it does look like a good, affordable course. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jg_puppy Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I watched part of the Fundamentals of Digital Photography on Creative Live this week. I thought it was a good class. I can't wait to watch some of the Photoshop sections next week. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Wow! It's going to take me a while to process all of this great information. I'm so glad i asked, I knew there had to be more out there. As far as cameras go, he received a Canon Rebel T3 for his 16th birthday. A photographer friend helped us pick it out as a good, solid camera for a beginner. We have a 5 year old version of Photoshop Elements, which I wouldn't mind replacing. I think I'm going to have him explore all of the different photo editing options and let him decide which he'd like to most learn about. Photoshop seems obvious to me, but until I read your responses here, I honestly didn't know there were other options! I've bookmarked all of the sites and will go back later and explore, some of them look really impressive. As far as the Fundamentals of Photography course go, here is a sampling of some of the assignments: Lecture 2: Camera Equipment Homework: Take a picture of one subject using every setting on your camera. Look at how each setting changes teh way the image looks. Put a card in each picture that notes the setting. Lecture 4: Shutter Speeds Homework: Shoot something that's moving - traffic, a kid on a merry-go-round, water; choose a subject that's moving repeatedly so you have several chances to shoot it. Slow your shutter speed down to less than 1/30 of a second and speed it up to 1/500 of a second or more. Do this at different times of the day and observe how the change in light affects your pictures. Lecture 5: Aperture and Depth of Field Homework: Shoot the same scene, one that has a subject in the foreground, and then bring things into focus in the background by making the hole in your lens smaller. This will show you the relationship of aperture to depth of field. In the first frame, there should be no depth of field (f/28). Then, make the aperture a bit smaller in each frame to increase the depth of field. Lecture 6: Light I: Found or Ambient Homework: On a sunny day shoot five shots of the same subject: one early, one at high noon, one in the late afternoon and one before and after sunset. Compare the results to see what happens to the one subject at different times of the day. Lecture 11: Composition III: Framing and Layering Homework: Frame a subject in an unusual way using something from your house or driveway. No doorways, that's too easy! Consider the unusual. You could frame someone sitting at a table thorough a napkin holder or someone grabbinga bite to eat as seen looking out from the back of the fridge (with some help from your camera's self-timer). Lecture 18: Advanced Topics - Research and Preparation Homework: Take pictures of an event or a site that requires special timing or access, such as behind-the-scences at a concert or ballet performance or access to a building's rooftop to shoot overviews. Lecuture 21: Advanced Topics - Problem Solving Homework: Look over some of the first pictures you took during this course & identify some of the problems you encountered. Return to one of the locations, rethink the situation & shoot some more pictures. Work out the visual problems until you're satisfied with the picture. Lecture 23: Editing - Choosing the Right Images Homework: Do a complete edit from a full day of shooting. Start by making rough selects, then select the primes - the real keepers. Narrow your choices down to one picture per situation or one picture per view or direction. If you've had a really big day of shooting, narrow the selection down to 20 pictures, 10 or even your favorite single image. Lecture 24: Telling a Story with Pictures - The Photo Essay Homework: Shoot a favorite subject as a picture story - not an essay, just a picture story. You could shoot this in an afternoon if you wanted to, but be sure to think about a scene-setter, a detail shot, a close-up, a nice moment, and an ending frame or closer. Work to get the most variety in terms of times of day, weather conditions, lens choices, even emotions. Practice your editing by choosing only the very best frames and, if necessary, return to the scene to reshoot to get the perfect images for your story. I need to go get my haircut, but I'll try to post more later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 the Fundamentals of Photography course They are running a FREE re-watch of all five days over this weekend even as we speak! :) http://www.creativelive.com/live2 Also for the next 24 hours it is still just $99 to purchase the entire download of 35 hours; after that it will be $150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caraway Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Is he interested in shooting film at all? Because that REALLY changed things for me as a photographer, and taught me a lot! You can PM me if you have film shooting questions. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Ooo, good camera choice!! Now what did he get for lenses? That's what's going to decide what he can do. Did he get a kit lens or buy something separately? *Ideally* a student who really wants to get into photography will get a fixed lens, a prime. If he's using a kit lens, exercises like the one you listed for lesson 5 are almost impossible. You can, but it's an exercise in frustration. I shoot Nikon, so I don't keep up with Canon (except to lust!). Usually there's something they call a "nifty fifty." It's a piece of glass (a lens) you can get into for cheap. Usually it's their 35mm or 50mm. (50mm, nifty-fifty...) You're looking for something that says f/1.8, f/1.4, something like that. What you *don't* want (if you can avoid it) is something that says f/3.5-5.6 or some such thing. That's the norm for a kit lens, and it's called a "variable aperture." It means that when he goes to do those exercises, it's going to change on him. Pain in the patoot to work with, and means he can't shoot wide open and get that shallow depth of field you're reading about. It *is* possible to shoot well with a variable aperture lens, but it's a real pain. Anyways, the frustration of variable aperture is what got me when I tried to learn photography years ago when I got my first dSLR. I just gave up and went to auto, because the changes I was making seemed to make no difference. You want prime to see it and it doesn't have to break the bank. EF 50mm f/1.8 II Autofocus Lens This is a Canon 50mm f/1.8 at B&H for $125. 50mm is tight indoors, but it's fine outdoors or for taking pictures of objects. For me, I take wider shots of my kids doing projects, etc., so I use a 35mm more. But for the price, that's your nifty-fift, a 50mm lens of decent quality that you can get into for $125. If you want to spend more, look at the 35mm (~$400) or check out the Tokina 16-28 for canon. If he starts with a 50 mm lens and wants wider later, that Tokina would be a fun next step. So think in terms of steps (start here, next thing at Christmas, etc.). Your photographer friend probably already told you all that. That's cool that you have that personal connection! As far as the assignments you listed, they're kind of vague. Is his goal to learn to shoot manual? Shooting manual is kind of hard for some people. There's a lot to think through and process. With my dd, I've tried, and at this point I think she's actually better shooting in one of the priority modes. Until she gets a more intuitive sense for it, there's too much to process at once. But that's just her. When he talks about using your settings in step 2, I wouldn't bother. What he *should* definitely do there is read his entire manual and learn it. He should understand the camera and learn what the priority modes are and understand them. They're there to help him if he needs it. I don't see a mention of metering, and that's pretty important. There's a video you can get on the Zone method that is a good place to start. Adorama sells it. It's a little pricey, but it will revolutionize his shooting and help him get proficient quickly. He needs to understand the metering limitations of his camera btw (which sensors are crosshair, which are not, etc.). The lecture 4 exercise is fun, yes. Hopefully there was something on metering in-between there, or he won't understand what he's seeing and be able to interpret the results (too many variables). The lesson 5 exercise is interesting as a start. You could/should google to learn more. Lesson 6 is kind of strange. It's true most people don't see light and think about light and that it takes a while. It's just sort of a vague assignment. Indoors, out? Same location each time? How are you metering? There's a huge amount of material there he's NOT covering. It's sort of like the depth of field lesson. He's giving you the first step in a much larger topic that another course would flesh out. It's not actually a hard topic to understand, so it's a shame the assignment is so cursory. Lesson 11 assignment, like! Lesson 18-this could have interesting application to a student. They could photograph church banquets or parties, that sort of thing, just getting themselves some opportunity to practice in a non-threatening way. Lesson 21-This should have been happening all along. It was the feedback I was telling you about. Lesson 23--this is sort of a psychological task. Lesson 24--This wasn't done well in the class I took where they covered it. His explanation seems reasonable. I'd encourage you to think in terms of audience, where he'll post it, and find other examples of that style/use for him to look at. You know, I had TOTALLY forgotten about the free lessons at TwoPeasinaBucket! http://www.twopeasin...seed_id=26134 Haven't used them, but they seemed to hit on a lot of good things. They include an article by KarenRussell that I keep hearing mentioned and would like to go read on technical perfect vs. art. If you search around there, they have some other free classes that might interest girls especially (digiscrapping, card-making, etc.). It's definitely woman-oriented, but don't underestimate it. There's a huge surge in female photography right now. (total rabbit trail!) Anyways, it's good, concise info. I haven't really found many accessible texts. I got Joy of Photography from the library, and it's fine. Many photog schools use London's texts. I got one, and it was just way overkill. There's a more concise one I want to see but haven't yet. Bryan Peterson is more accessible. I guess let him define his goals and just make it happen. If he wants to shoot manual, don't beat around the bush but get right to it. If he wants to do artistic shots, get into those Desert Oasis assignments, as they're awesome for that. The other fun thing to do, and something that's really worth his time, is to find a Flickr group for the lens he's considering and let him look at shots people are making with that lens. See, the way they usually say it is that beginners ask what camera was used, pros ask what *lens*. ;) I own a particular lens that I never really understood till I spent a good number of hours looking at Flickr. They say to take your new lens and shoot and shoot with it till you have tried all sorts of angles and situations and know what it can do. Even then, there's STILL more you're not envisioning you can do with it to push it farther! And you don't really need a text for that. You just get on Flickr and go wow. Here's a link to the Canon 50mm f/1.8 Flickr group so you can see what I'm talking about. There are groups like this for all the lenses. Worth the time to look at. :) http://www.flickr.co...ps/canonef50mm/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 They are running a FREE re-watch of all five days over this weekend even as we speak! :) http://www.creativelive.com/live2 Also for the next 24 hours it is still just $99 to purchase the entire download of 35 hours; after that it will be $150. In case someone didn't see my note on the other thread, this isn't the course I am referencing. The course I am referencing is Fundamentals of Photography from The Great Courses with Joel Sartore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Is he interested in shooting film at all? Because that REALLY changed things for me as a photographer, and taught me a lot! You can PM me if you have film shooting questions. :001_smile: Just for fun, can you tell us about it? I've had (internet) friends go film. I know it slows you down and makes you really focus. Interested to hear what else it did for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Is he interested in shooting film at all? Because that REALLY changed things for me as a photographer, and taught me a lot! You can PM me if you have film shooting questions. :001_smile: I'm not sure, I'd have to ask him. Thanks for the offer of info - I may take you up on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 In case someone didn't see my note on the other thread, this isn't the course I am referencing. The course I am referencing is Fundamentals of Photography from The Great Courses with Joel Sartore. Actually, the course Lori linked you to would be an EXCELLENT beginner course and hit EVERYTHING he ought to hit. It's more thorough than the TC course. And to get it at the deal price when it's live is the best way, because it goes up after that. He's very, very thorough in this course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Ooo, good camera choice!! Now what did he get for lenses? That's what's going to decide what he can do. Did he get a kit lens or buy something separately? *Ideally* a student who really wants to get into photography will get a fixed lens, a prime. We got a really good deal on the camera by purchasing it during the Christmas sales. It came with the gadget bag & a 4GB memory card. Part of the deal was that we could also buy an additional lens for $49, so we took advantage of that as well. The lenses he has are: EF-S 18-55mm and EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6III Lens. At least, those are the numbers on the boxes - I'm a point and shoot gal, so I'm really in over my head! I assume these are what is known as "kit lenses." Is his goal to learn to shoot manual? Shooting manual is kind of hard for some people. There's a lot to think through and process. With my dd, I've tried, and at this point I think she's actually better shooting in one of the priority modes. Until she gets a more intuitive sense for it, there's too much to process at once. But that's just her. When he talks about using your settings in step 2, I wouldn't bother. What he *should* definitely do there is read his entire manual and learn it. He should understand the camera and learn what the priority modes are and understand them. They're there to help him if he needs it. Yes, he wants to learn to shoot manual. I'll make sure that he goes through the manual, though. It's hard to get him to sit still with it right now. It's raining today, so he went to a science museum to shoot. I don't see a mention of metering, and that's pretty important. I just looked through the book that came through the course & I don't see a mention of it either. There are three lectures on light, covering Found or Ambient Light, Color and Intensity and Introduced Light. I think I might be buying the course from creativeLIVE. I have it running in the background now & the speaker is very engaging, I think he'd follow him pretty well. According to the timer on the deal, it is good through tomorrow. I'll have him watch some tonight or tomorrow to see what he thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Sounds like a plan! And you know, don't feel bad about having different sources. It's good to hear from different teachers. They emphasize different things, and the overlap will make things click. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 So what did you decide? Going to buy the CL class? I watched part of it last night and today, and I'm very impressed with what he covered. He spent quite a bit of time on manual and exposure and how you think through SS vs. ap vs. ISO. They did it in a game format, and it was a good how he got the whole thing to slow down for them so they could really GET it. Some people catch on faster, and some people really need that time. There were a lot of things he hit on cursorily (say in his composition section), that were EXTREMELY good. I'm not sure I'd pace the class out evenly. There are things there that make sense after you've been shooting a while. So some of the sections, like manual, you could just go through at a reasonable pace. Some of the lessons you could slow down and potentially spend WEEKS on. That whole thing with lines, repetition, etc. etc., yup, you could park right there and try for one major concept each week, where he hit maybe 6 in that one lesson. And if you watched the class enough, you probably caught his big plug for Lightroom. :) Next week they're doing an unbelievable list of Photoshop classes on CL. Sometimes when they show one class by a person, they put the *other* classes that person has taught in the past on sale as well. If they do that with the Lesa Snyder classes, just buy. Don't even stop to ask, just buy. Well I guess wait if you don't see yourself plunging into PS anytime soon, lol. As I recall, she did a LR/ACR class at the tail end of her basic PS class, so they may bundle those together. Jared Platt will be teaching next week, and his Lightroom class he taught earlier (which they may put on sale, never know) was exceptional. Now that may be over his head or interest level or whatever, but there you go. Jared Platt did all the training and workflow development for ShootDotEdit.com (a service people send their RAW images to for editing), so he's an excellent voice to listen to. He also used to teach at a photography school I think. Well whatever, just wondered if you were taking the plunge. Dd is under the weather today. I keep wanting her to watch the Greengo rewatch they have going right now, and she walks by and grunts. Now she's back in bed. I'm either going to get it and tell her to deal with it if he's a bit slow or annoying, or I'll skip and regret it. I thought the way he *slowed things down* was helpful, and of course he's super thorough. I could milk 3 semesters off that course, easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 So what did you decide? Going to buy the CL class? I watched part of it last night and today, and I'm very impressed with what he covered. Yes, I just purchased it. I'm going to have him watch some of the photoshop course & if it is as good, I'll probably invest in it as well. Are you familiar with the Adobe product Creative Cloud? The student/teacher price is $19.99/month for the first year, then $29.99/month. I'm thinking that is probably more than we need right now. The cool thing, though, is that you have access to all of the Adobe tools (if I understand it correctly). Which of these products do you think would be the best value? Adobe Photoshop & Premiere Elements 11 = $119.99 (student/teacher pricing) Lightroom = $79.00 (student/teacher pricing) Adobe Photoshop Elements 11 = $70.60 (Amazon, Adobe doesn't have student/teacher pricing on this product) If we go with Lightroom, would the Photoshop course on CreativeLive be of any help? Do you know of any good books on Photoshop or Lightroom that would be good to have on hand for reference? I imagine the time that he might spend on photo editing would exceed his internet time, so a reference book would be a good idea. Thanks for all of your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Yes, I just purchased it. I'm going to have him watch some of the photoshop course & if it is as good, I'll probably invest in it as well. Are you familiar with the Adobe product Creative Cloud? The student/teacher price is $19.99/month for the first year, then $29.99/month. I'm thinking that is probably more than we need right now. The cool thing, though, is that you have access to all of the Adobe tools (if I understand it correctly). Which of these products do you think would be the best value? Adobe Photoshop & Premiere Elements 11 = $119.99 (student/teacher pricing) Lightroom = $79.00 (student/teacher pricing) Adobe Photoshop Elements 11 = $70.60 (Amazon, Adobe doesn't have student/teacher pricing on this product) If we go with Lightroom, would the Photoshop course on CreativeLive be of any help? Do you know of any good books on Photoshop or Lightroom that would be good to have on hand for reference? I imagine the time that he might spend on photo editing would exceed his internet time, so a reference book would be a good idea. Thanks for all of your help! I asked Dh; and am now typing up his answer as he speaks: "Starting tomorrow is Photoshop week at Creative Live; they will run concurrent live streaming 2 topics. Watch both and decide if either/both would be valuable to you. 6 days, 40 classes, 13 instructors, all free. There are some new instructors. Also some from before who are very good: : Lesa Snider... Ben Willmore..." Here's the link to the web page, with a promotional video: http://www.creativel...tm_medium=email More from DH: "If you're not getting into video production and video editing, then don't bother with the Premiere Elements (because it's only about video), so only the Photoshop in that bundle would be of value to you." "Lightroom is a photographer's tool, to manage your catalog of photos; do adjustments in your photos; do global types of corrections (color, exposure, etc.)... Some of the courses in this next week of Creative Live are specifically on Lightroom. Otherwise, Lightroom and Photoshop are very different programs." [Most of the post production work DH does is through Lightroom; DH would use Photoshop to composite multiple images, get rid of unwanted items in the image, creative/interpretive work, etc.] "Photoshop Elements is designed for consumers rather than professionals; if you're just starting out with Photoshop it will be less intimidating. The Creative Live discussions on the tools and how to use Photoshop will translate to Photoshop Elements." Book ideas from DH: "For Photoshop, I don't know. For Lightroom, here's a link to a $20, 300+ page pdf from someone who really knows Lightroom = http://craftandvisio...om-4-unmasked/" Hope that helps! [says Lori D. the transcriber for this post -- LOL!] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The Creative Cloud subscription thing is SO expensive, oy. I'd be very reticent to do that. Check the math first. Try Academic SuperStore and sign up for their emails. They don't send coupons, but they have deals. They can do academic pricing, or there will be bundles. I think, and this is just my two cents, you might like to start with what you've got and add slowly. If he wants to learn LR, do LR and use PSE with it for a while. When he's outgrown what PSE can do, THEN go buy full CS/PS. At that point he'll know more what he wants/needs. You don't want to buy more than what he needs, because they'll change the software in another year. Besides (and I mean to scare you here), about the time you download the top of the line software you're suddenly going to have him asking for a new computer. ;) I have an SSD and 16 gig of RAM. Those things run sweet on my machine. Just sayin' it's wise not to let it all blow your budget. Let him go as far as he can with one round of purchases, then do more. Yes, I like LR. Greengo in the video mentions it and says that in his talks he finds people pretty split (ACR+ PS vs. LR+PS). LR is extremely powerful. As far as learning it, CL has a lot of great courses. I did a paid course at Clickinmoms (fine), some classes at Lynda.com (fine), and have watched everything Creative Live has done on it this past year. All the Creative Live classes on LR have been excellent. I know you're thinking book. Yes, Scott Kelby has LR books, and your library will have them. You can also go to his website. He's sort of hyperbolic, don't really identify with him myself. Laura Shoe's class at CL was good, and Lesa Snider's class that hit LR was good. Jared Platt's was astounding. He's a wedding photographer and way out there with being efficient. BTW, all those people have blogs with tutorials and stuff. You can connect with Lesa Snider and Laura Shoe through their FB as well. Snider puts some extra goodies there if you friend her. Matt Kloskowski (is that the spelling?) has tutorials on his blog. You can sign up and receive the feeds. I'd rather have less software and more instruction on how to use what I've got, if that makes sense. Remember too you can download a one month trial of LR, CS6, whatever you want. I wouldn't buy anything till he has done that. That way you know it runs well on your machine, know why you're getting it, etc. If he's planning on connecting a lot with this local photog friend, what does this friend use? Not that you *have* to go that way, but it gives you a sense of whether that friend can give him feedback on how he's doing. Oh, you specifically asked what LR class at CL. Um, Lesa Snider did an ACR class at the tail end of her PS class. If he decides just to do ACR + PS, well there you go. If he wants LR, well *my* fav has been Jared Platt. However, in pondering it, that might be more than you want to spend, more than he needs. That's some pretty serious stuff. Laura Shoe's class was fine. LR is the sort of thing where you learn the basics then come back and learn some more and more. People go at things different ways, so people teach and edit differently, if that makes sense. Seriously, he could go to Lynda.com and do the free trial for a week. Chris Orwig over there is AMAZING, love, love, love. Lynda.com is only $10 a month. He could watch a class or two there on LR and then he'd know if he wants something like what one of the people on CL is offering. That doesn't seem so tidy to put on a syllabus, I know, but it would save you some $$. It's what I myself did. But if you need tidy, pick the CL class that seems best to you. The pickle at that point is not getting any feedback to know if he's on track. Do the best you can. Everybody goes through a crunchy stage, then they come out to the other side and go from proficient to developing style preferences. Just takes time. BTW, Greengo makes the comment late in the video class that people think he spends a lot of time out shooting, as in doing all the great stuff you see. He points out that ACTUALLY he spends a lot of time in his basement in sweats, sitting in front of a computer editing. ;) Its the face of modern photography. It's a very geeky pursuit. Greengo is in his basement because he wants consistent low light for editing. If your computer is near a window, he'll end up wanting to edit only in the evening or with a blind drawn, so he can get the light consistent. Well have fun with it. Dd doesn't want the Greengo course, so I'm not getting it. I think some of it's really good, but I guess she's content with our gypsy (learning by imitation) methods so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The guy behind Craft & Vision that Lori linked you to is DuChemin. His books are fabulous, so I assume everything on there is terrific. Just haven't bought anything. They send out emails and do run deals, especially on the new products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Amanda~ Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Holy wow. Bookmarking for reference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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