Just a ?. Not a fight. Please.

[Kim in SouthGa]

(To all who said "no honors designation, not just the poster quoted above) But if your child was not capable of working at the honors level, then your homeschool would offer a non-honors class, no?

 

I guess my feeling is that using the same kind of language/designation that a school uses (and I know schools vary) would be the best way to communicate with a system that is used to that language. And the bigger, more bureaucratic the school, the more that would apply. If you want it to be perceived as the equivalent of an honors course, why not designate it as such on the transcript, rather than hide that info in the school and/or course description?

 

I get that an honors class at a private prep school where all the kids go to college may be different than an honors class at a public school where only half go. What I don't get is downplaying the rigor of an hs class rather than highlighting it.

 

Not arguing AT ALL, just trying to understand. And I haven't done college apps with a hsed kid, so thinking theoretically here.

 

I agree. I have other children that are gifted in other areas. One is very gifted athletically, and will not be able to handle the reading load that my oldest is doing now. He will not be doing what I will call honors work, but will still be getting a good classical education, and his course titles and descriptions will reflect that. I really want to fight "the system" and not worry about things like honors, AP, SAT II, etc, but I am coming to realize that for my son to meet his goals we are going to have to play the game :glare:

 

And about my previous post-I went back to check the school website, and they do not require honors or AP but lead you to believe they are needed to be accepted (by the avg. gpa if nothing else-you have to take honors or AP to get above 4.0, right?). Some of the numbers have changed since I looked at it last-

 

Admission to Florida State University is competitive. It requires graduation from a regionally accredited high school with certain high school academic units, a cumulative grade point average (GPA) in those academic units, and test scores. Satisfying these minimum requirements does not guarantee admission. The academic profile of the middle 50 percent of freshmen accepted in 2011 was: 3.6-4.2 academic GPA; 25-29 ACT composite; 1730-1960 SAT total.

A variety of other factors are also considered in the review process; these include the written essay, the rigor and quality of courses and curriculum, grade trends, class rank, and educational objectives.

 

 

This is for everyone, not just homeschoolers. If I remember correctly, the only additional requirement for hsers was a list of class descriptions with texts and methods of evaluation.

 

 

Most of the colleges he has looked at stress a desire to see rigorous academic courses, which I interpret to mean honors, advanced, or AP. They don't say they require them, just that they want to see them. At this point I am more concerned with scholarships than admission, so I'm hoping the more difficult courses will give him an edge.

[8filltheheart]

I agree. I have other children that are gifted in other areas. One is very gifted athletically, and will not be able to handle the reading load that my oldest is doing now. He will not be doing what I will call honors work, but will still be getting a good classical education, and his course titles and descriptions will reflect that. I really want to fight "the system" and not worry about things like honors, AP, SAT II, etc, but I am coming to realize that for my son to meet his goals we are going to have to play the game :glare:

 

And about my previous post-I went back to check the school website, and they do not require honors or AP but lead you to believe they are needed to be accepted (by the avg. gpa if nothing else-you have to take honors or AP to get above 4.0, right?). Some of the numbers have changed since I looked at it last-

 

Admission to Florida State University is competitive. It requires graduation from a regionally accredited high school with certain high school academic units, a cumulative grade point average (GPA) in those academic units, and test scores. Satisfying these minimum requirements does not guarantee admission. The academic profile of the middle 50 percent of freshmen accepted in 2011 was: 3.6-4.2 academic GPA; 25-29 ACT composite; 1730-1960 SAT total.

A variety of other factors are also considered in the review process; these include the written essay, the rigor and quality of courses and curriculum, grade trends, class rank, and educational objectives.

 

 

This is for everyone, not just homeschoolers. If I remember correctly, the only additional requirement for hsers was a list of class descriptions with texts and methods of evaluation.

 

 

Most of the colleges he has looked at stress a desire to see rigorous academic courses, which I interpret to mean honors, advanced, or AP. They don't say they require them, just that they want to see them. At this point I am more concerned with scholarships than admission, so I'm hoping the more difficult courses will give him an edge.

 

Just keep in mind that simply b/c you assign a GPA does not mean that is the GPA that the admissions office will actuallly use. Admissions offices use their own formula.

 

I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't use the term. It is your homeschool and you need to do what you feel comfortable with. I am only stating that I don't and that it doesn't concern me. As a homeschooler, I don't think that GPA means more than molehill. They are going to use a completely different admissions standard vs. the GPA based on the grades I have assigned.

 

ETA: I meant to address the bolded. Many "standard" non-weighted GPAs now use the +/- system w/in the grade. So the scale is

 

A+= 4.3

A=4.0

A-=3.7

B+=3.3

etc

 

So, no, you don't have to have weighted grades to be above 4.0.

 

ETA2: Also meant to explain the "their own formula." Some schools will remove subjects like PE, health, etc and only use core academic classes for the GPA scale that they will use for comparing students. (along with unweighting weighted grades.......if you spend some time reading College Confidential, you'll find that the entire GPA scenario is far from simple even for those coming from traditional schools. It becomes even more complicated w/homeschooling.)

Edited July 31, 2011 by 8FillTheHeart

[KAR120C]

I guess my feeling is that using the same kind of language/designation that a school uses (and I know schools vary) would be the best way to communicate with a system that is used to that language. And the bigger, more bureaucratic the school, the more that would apply. If you want it to be perceived as the equivalent of an honors course, why not designate it as such on the transcript, rather than hide that info in the school and/or course description?

When I have a specific application form going to a specific school in front of me, I might change my mind.... I do agree in theory about communicating in a language they'll understand, but I think our approach is going to be weird enough that "honors" won't really communicate it either...

 

For instance, DS is going to have among his math courses "Discrete Math 1", "Discrete Math 2" and "Problem Solving". It's not that we're doing more (or more difficult) discrete math or problem solving than the average student - it's that we're doing it as a course at all. He'll have test scores to go with that -- AMC exams in particular. Any adcom who knows what any of that means won't need to see "Honors" on top of that -- they'll be looking at the AMC scores. If I said "Honors Discrete Math" I'm not sure what that would mean... and if I said "Honors Math 10" for tenth grade math, it would be even less descriptive than "Problem Solving".

 

Basically for us, we're going to look pretty weird on paper no matter what we do... Honors or not is the least of our issues! :)

[Orthodox6]

When I was at Duke, this was how grades were assigned. Should be good enough for my homeschool, one would think !

 

 

 

 

Many "standard" non-weighted GPAs now use the +/- system w/in the grade. So the scale is

 

A+= 4.3

A=4.0

A-=3.7

B+=3.3

etc

 

.

 

[Teachin'Mine]

Out of curiosity, with that 4.3 scale, what numerical grade would translate to an A+? (100, 99 - how low?)

[FourOaks]

Yes, that's a question I have as well. How do you determine what percentage receives the A+, A, A- and so forth?

[Teachin'Mine]

Found this on the college board:

 

How to Convert Your GPA to a 4.0 Scale

 

 

Colleges report GPA (grade point average) on a 4.0 scale. The top grade is an A, which equals 4.0. This is the standard scale at most colleges, and many high schools use it.

 

If your high school uses a different or weighted system, you need to convert your GPA to a 4.0 scale for this tool. Talk to your school counselor or get a rough conversion by substituting these values:

 

A+ (97-100) = 4.0

A (93-96) = 4.0

A- (90-92) = 3.7

B+ (87-89) = 3.3

B (83-86) = 3.0

B- (80-82) = 2.7

C+ (77-79) = 2.3

C (73-76) = 2.0

C- (70-72) = 1.7

D+ (67-69) = 1.3

D (65-66) = 1.0

E/F (below 65) = 0.0

 

 

 

http://www.collegeboard.com/html/academicTracker-howtoconvert.html

 

 

Interesting that an A+ is still a 4.0 which is what I've usually seen.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[justasque]

Thought I'd post this as a data point.

Here is the scale for a local private prep school:

 

Grade Description - Grade Point Value

A (93-100) Superior 4.0

B+ (89-92) 3.3

B (85-88) Above Average 3.0

C+ (81-84) 2.3

C (77-80) Average 2.0

D+ (73-76) 1.3

D (70-72) Minimal passing grade 1.0

F (0-69) Failure 0.0

 

These numbers are altered for higher-level classes, as described below.

 

Grade Point Average and Class Rank

 

[Note: This school tracks students, phase two is the lowest, phase 4 is considered Honors, and phase five is reserved for AP classes. The school does not routinely report class rank, on the theory that students are all doing college-prep work, and class rank would not give an accurate representation of their achievement.]

 

In determining the Grade Point Average (GPA) and class rank for each student, students carrying subjects listed in Phase 3, 4, or 5 receive an increase in value for a letter grade according to the following scale:

In Phase 3 - .2 is added

In Phase 4 - .3 is added

In Phase 5 - .4 is added

Class rank is not posted on the student’s official transcript but is used to calculate graduating honors. Some courses, such as Academic Assistantship and those with Pass/Fail grades, are not included in calculating a student's GPA and class rank.

 

Courses will be graded in the following fashion:

[Note: "final assessment" usually means the final exam. Students who have an A going into the final are usually exempt from taking the final.]

 

Full-Year Courses

Four individual quarter grades, one final assessment grade, and one final grade are reported. Each quarter grade will be an indication of the student's work over that particular marking period. The four marking periods and the final assessment grade each constitute one-fifth of the student's grade.

 

Semester Courses

Two quarter grades, one final assessment grade, and the final grade will be reported. Each quarter grade will be an indication of the student's work over that particular marking period. Each marking period is to constitute two-fifths (40%) of the student's grade, and the final assessment grade is to constitute one-fifth (20%) of the student's grade.

[Tullia]

Thinking out loud, no more than that.

 

Why do so many homeschoolers want to replicate "honors" and/or "AP" courses for their high school students?

 

I don't believe it is wrong to do so !

 

I try to teaching rock-solid courses in all subjects. I don't feel any compulsion to label them "honors" or "AP". Some of my coursework probably has qualified as such, over the years, but I don't worry about it. High quality provided for my children is my aim.

 

If respondents don't mind sharing honest introspection, is this trend followed because of competition for college admission, or because of a deeply-buried insecurity of how homeschooling coursework stacks up -- (in the eyes of the sometimes hostile non-homeschooling world) -- against that of "outside schools"?

 

Similar possibility, perhaps, is it that homeschoolers are imitating outside schools, where AP classes have proliferated like healthy rabbits?

 

Not a trace of anti-intellectualism among my family, as dh and my education proves. I'm not coming from that angle.

 

I'm just interested and very curious.

 

I did not list any "honors" courses on ds' transcript, and we decided against AP courses. Many schools we researched looked primarily at test scores and didn't give much weight to either GPA or honors courses unless the test scores validated them. The case for or against AP doesn't seem as clear-cut. For us the cost vs. benefits didn't make AP worthwhile. Some of the schools ds considered wanted to see them; others did not.

 

My philosophy was that rigorous coursework would likely be reflected in SAT/SATII/ACT scores (for a dc who is good at test-taking). We did spend time on communications skills geared toward admissions/scholarship interviews and essays. I'm not against either honors or AP courses; in different circumstances I might have made different choices.

[Kim in SouthGa]

Just keep in mind that simply b/c you assign a GPA does not mean that is the GPA that the admissions office will actuallly use. Admissions offices use their own formula.

 

I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't use the term. It is your homeschool and you need to do what you feel comfortable with. I am only stating that I don't and that it doesn't concern me. As a homeschooler, I don't think that GPA means more than molehill. They are going to use a completely different admissions standard vs. the GPA based on the grades I have assigned.

 

ETA: I meant to address the bolded. Many "standard" non-weighted GPAs now use the +/- system w/in the grade. So the scale is

 

A+= 4.3

A=4.0

A-=3.7

B+=3.3

etc

 

So, no, you don't have to have weighted grades to be above 4.0.

 

ETA2: Also meant to explain the "their own formula." Some schools will remove subjects like PE, health, etc and only use core academic classes for the GPA scale that they will use for comparing students. (along with unweighting weighted grades.......if you spend some time reading College Confidential, you'll find that the entire GPA scenario is far from simple even for those coming from traditional schools. It becomes even more complicated w/homeschooling.)

 

Good grief, why do they have to make it so hard? It all seemed so simple when I graduated! I had planned to put a weighted and unweighted gpa on his transcript, with each noted as such. Now I wonder why bother?

So do they take every applicant and redo their gpa or just the ones they are initially interested in? Just wondering if the honors classes/weighted gpa would at least help get a foot in the door.

[snowbeltmom]

Just wondering if the honors classes/weighted gpa would at least help get a foot in the door.

My guess is that it is the standardized test scores that get the foot in the door at the vast majority of colleges - not the GPA or honors designation.