how to discern between ADD and rebellion

[deemk]

can anyone out there share their ADD experiences? i would like to know what type of problems you had. did you choose to medicate? if so, what medication worked? has anyone tried ADD meds and had the problems NOT go away? how do you determine what is an attention disorder and what is a lack of self-discipline that needs to be learned? how do you decide if there's truly an incapability to control oneself or if it's just passive aggressive behavior?

 

i have a 12 yo that we've had problems with since he was 6. we recently put him on adderall, but almost 3 weeks later we don't see any change. i know that the affects of adderall aren't immediate, but i was told that we would see improvement by now. i can't find anything that motivates him. he speaks in absolutes (never, always, nothing, etc.). if we enforce consequences for his behavior (i.e. not finishing schoolwork or chores) then he just seems to get worse. he just doesn't want to even try to catch up. but then it seems that allowing him to stop and not telling him he's behind is just allowing him to be in control. there's no hyperactivity symptoms, just lack of desire to do anything at all.

 

anyone else have similar experiences and found a solution?

[Chris in VA]

Honestly, just from your post, he sounds more depressed than ADD. Does he have an official diagnosis (I'm assuming so, since you got meds)--Has he been screened for depression?

I just say this from my own family experience--no expert here.

[deemk]

well we saw a psychiatrist and i'm not quite sure he listened to everything we told him. but i've heard that's how they are. in my opinion, it's not solely a school problem. but when the psychiatrist meets with him, that's how the discussion goes. he lectures him on school and how if he doesn't get an education, he won't have job choices later. he immediately gave the script for adderall on the first visit. he does have a lot of ADD symptoms that the psychiatrist had us check off a list. if i stand over his shoulder all day and direct him every 15 minutes on what to do then he can stay on task. but if i leave him to do his independent schoolwork or chores, when i come back into the room he's piddling with something - a toy or a gadget or anything but what he is supposed to be doing. we went back to the psychiatrist after only being on the meds for a week (psych told us it would take 2 wks to see results) and he already wanted to give him some anti-depressant because i said i saw no change. my husband is a physician and said SSRIs are absolutely out of the question, so i can't go that route.

[LizzyBee]

can anyone out there share their ADD experiences? i would like to know what type of problems you had. did you choose to medicate? if so, what medication worked? has anyone tried ADD meds and had the problems NOT go away? how do you determine what is an attention disorder and what is a lack of self-discipline that needs to be learned? how do you decide if there's truly an incapability to control oneself or if it's just passive aggressive behavior?

 

i have a 12 yo that we've had problems with since he was 6. we recently put him on adderall, but almost 3 weeks later we don't see any change. i know that the affects of adderall aren't immediate, but i was told that we would see improvement by now. i can't find anything that motivates him. he speaks in absolutes (never, always, nothing, etc.). if we enforce consequences for his behavior (i.e. not finishing schoolwork or chores) then he just seems to get worse. he just doesn't want to even try to catch up. but then it seems that allowing him to stop and not telling him he's behind is just allowing him to be in control. there's no hyperactivity symptoms, just lack of desire to do anything at all.

 

anyone else have similar experiences and found a solution?

 

In regards to your first paragraph, my 7 yo is diagnosed with ADHD-combined type. She is sweet and wants to please. It seems to me when she does something wrong, it's because she's impulsive and hasn't learned to think ahead to the consequences, not because she is being defiant. However, ODD and ADHD often go hand in hand, and if that's the case I think it would be difficult to discern whether there is deliberate defiance or impulsive behavior. Not that the impulsivity makes disobedience okay, but my response to an impulsive action is much different than my response to an act of deliberate disobedience.

 

In regards to your second paragraph, your son sounds a lot like my 12 yo, who is not diagnosed with ADHD although she presents exactly as described in the book Understanding Girls With ADHD. If she were diagnosed, she'd have the inattentive type. She is the opposite of hyperactive, slow as molasses. Sometimes I think that because I've made so many accomodations for her, she has developed "learned helplessness." She'll say okay when I tell her to do something, but she never does it. "I forgot" seems to be her mantra. Over the next week or so, I am going to develop a contract between us regarding expectations for chores and school, and the consequences for failing to fulfill the contract. This is suggested in several books about ADD and LDs, so I'm hoping it will help.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Deeanna,

 

Well, I hope I can answer some of your questions. First, I didn't medicate my children until this year (as you'll see in my siggy, my kids are quite a bit older than most when they start medication). I really thought that homeschooling allowed us to work around the adhd. In a lot of ways, it did. However, I do regret waiting. The difference for them has been awesome. It isn't so much about what *I* notice, but what THEY notice.

 

However, part of that is because we didn't have related behavioral issues. I have one VERY easy kid and one VERY challenging child. I learned to discipline better so as to help each of them gain the skills and tools they need for life. I HIGHLY suggest this. It is a bit of work at first, especially the older your kids are, but working harder for a time allows you to maintain for the long term rather than working continually, often harder, as kids get older. A lot of people with more challenging children find they do better focusing on teaching, guiding, helping, encouraging rather than punishment. If you are finding yourself punishing semi-regularly, you probably could use a little beefing up in the disciplining (proactive and corrective teaching/guidance).

 

Anyway, hopefully this helps a little. Basically, medication could be helpful for y'all (though possibly not Adderall, or you may need to change the dosage), but you'll need to focus on good discipline regardless.

 

Oh, as for medication. Doc gave us Concerta. They started with 18mg and went up to 36 after a couple weeks.

 

I just reread your post (as well as Chris' response). I wonder if depression and discipline are the issue. And partly just age. I don't know that I'd expect much motivation for schooling from the average 12yo boy. Absolutes could be a number of things, including age and depression.

 

What kind of psychological screening has he had?

 

I think my first thing would be to get him to a good doctor for a full evaluation. From there, I'd consider things carefully. I definitely would still beef up the discipline just because anyone can stand to do a little better there. But make sure the dx goes well with the symptoms and be cautious as you try medication and other therapies (one big consideration is that medication is not nearly as helpful as it can be with a multi-prong approach--a therapist can go a long way in helping with motivation, working through concerns, putting plans into action, etc--I'm not as positive about "talk therapy" but that sometimes is part of the package for a time also).

[Carrie12345]

<Enter the "I'm not a doctor" disclaimer here>

 

My kids have not been assessed for ADD, but I have, and I've been on Adderall. Two of my children (okay, three, but only two seriously) show signs of ADD, but they have one big difference. One can't stay on task with the material she has a decent grasp on. The other can't stay on task with the material he's struggling with.

 

I am convinced that my dd has ADD. My ds, not so much. He's struggling with a different type of issue that leads to letting his mind wander. My dd just wanders, lol. She can't help it. I can only do so much to reign it in. When she's older, we'll consider meds. But meds aren't going to help my ds understand the material he's struggling with. Also, the fact that he struggles with some of his work *is depressing to him, which adds to the whole appearance of ADD.

 

Now, my other dd will dawdle and wander when material is too easy or boring for her. She and her sister might appear to be doing the same thing, but they're not. One doesn't want to "be there". The other just *can't "be there"!

 

My point is, I always look at what they're wandering from to get a better idea of why.

When I can't concentrate on surfing the web, I know I'm in an ADD funk. When I can't concentrate on CNN, I know I'm just having a regular old day. ;)

Edited April 15, 2009 by Carrie1234

[deemk]

okay, let me see if i can address everyone's questions in one fell swoop...

 

LizzeBee: there was mention of ODD in the psych visit but then asked if anyone had ever suggested ADD to us and had us check off things in the list of symptoms and prescribed the adderall. i'm not real familiar with ODD. is that treated with meds? the 'slow as molasses' and the 'i forgot' are ALL too familiar in this house! we have behavioral/reward systems in place, but he just assumes he 'can't' or that he'll 'fail' anyway, so therefore he doesn't even try.

 

Pamela: yes we've tried numerous different systems and parenting options. i've read the 'love and logic' books and have tried to implement some of that. we operate on a token system - which is actually used often with disabled kids - but also in other places. we try to use natural consequences, but he just doesn't accept consequences of any kind. we try putting out another consequence when he won't accept the first one, but it just snowballs and he refuses. yes we've considered depression, but we're not comfortable giving those meds to a kid, so i guess if that becomes the end all, we'll just have to tolerate it until he's old enough to make his own choices as to how to treat it.

 

Carrie: he's definitely of the 'i don't want to be here' mindset, instead of the 'i can't be here'. he sees no value in his schoolwork or his chores so therefore he claims they are not priority to him. he claims he wants privileges, but when they're taken away because he gets behind, he doesn't care to catch up to get them back.

 

we have tried to get him to talk to the psychiatrist. the doc asks him questions during his visit and he gives very quiet one-word answers that don't mean much. and he tells the doc something different than he does us (his parents). we've had behavioral and school-related issues since he was 6. i know that there are certain phase-related behaviors to expect from a preteen, but i don't believe that's all it is because of his history. we tried taking him to just a counselor when he was 6, and he still refused to communicate so we didn't really make much progress there either. i try asking him questions about what he thinks is holding him back or what his reasons for doing things are, but he doesn't say much and 'i don't know' is a very common answer. there is just an excuse for everything. one day it's because it's raining. another day it's because his stomach hurts. another day it's because he didn't sleep well. another day it's because he was thinking about something and got distracted. another day it's because it's 'too hard' or there's 'too much to do' or it's 'too boring'. another time it's because the reward at the end just isn't good enough. it seems to be one thing after another.

Edited April 15, 2009 by deemk