Foreign language help for dummies?

[Alison in KY]

UGH!! Okay, I want to start a foreign language because it's the thing to do, right? I mean everyone else does it and SWB says we have to study Latin. But, latin sounds boring. And when I'm bored I'm just not interested in it and I'm barely plugging in a basic science and history now (but I'm improving all the time).

 

Then again I thought about doing Greek because somehow that sounds more fun.

 

But, I've at least been exposed to spanish and my parents hire the occasional Mexican employee to work on their farm.

 

So now I'm just on foreign language overload.

 

Someone please help me. I know I'm whining, but just forgive me and help me :001_smile:.

 

My kids are soon to be 10,8, and 6. They are all average students who would much rather be playing, so somewhere they are skipping that eager love for learning part of homeschooling.

 

IF you don't do a foreign language for the long haul (fluency) then how much will it really help you? As an example, if I picked up Song School Latin because it looked like fun, and I did it with all 3 kids, would it have zero benefits if I never touch Latin again?

 

 

At what point will that foreign language benefit you...at what level. Say we did Elementry Greek 1 and never touched Greek again, have we gained anything?

 

If I go with Greek, will that also help me with English grammar? Am I a total loser if I whimp out on all and use something like English from the Roots up, holding off until high school to do a couple years of Spanish?

 

Any great programs that I'm not aware of? I'm thinking if I do Greek then I'd do the Greek Code Cracker and then Elementary Greek (all for oldest child).

 

For Latin, maybe Prima Latina or Song School Latin and then LFC

 

For Spanish, Rosetta Stone?

 

And lastly, concerning chants from Classical Academic Press...does it help? I know you get the pronunciation from it, but can you actually keep up with which tense goes with what meaning. It sounds confusing to me.

 

Thank you,

Alison

[Alison in KY]

:lurk5:

[Aurelia]

I thought about doing Greek because somehow that sounds more fun. My opinion is if you prefer Greek, then do that. There's no point in making more drudgery out of school, and Greek IS a classical language!

 

 

IF you don't do a foreign language for the long haul (fluency) then how much will it really help you? As an example, if I picked up Song School Latin because it looked like fun, and I did it with all 3 kids, would it have zero benefits if I never touch Latin again? Nope, it would help by giving them the roots of words, which enhances comprehension.

 

 

At what point will that foreign language benefit you...at what level. Say we did Elementry Greek 1 and never touched Greek again, have we gained anything? See previous answer. Any level is better than none, although obviously, the longer you study it, the more benefit you would get.

 

If I go with Greek, will that also help me with English grammar? Not sure, but I would think it does.

 

Am I a total loser if I whimp out on all and use something like English from the Roots up, holding off until high school to do a couple years of Spanish? Would you be mad if I said yes? :tongue_smilie: Just kidding. It's better to do something meaningful to you than to blindly do a subject or program you hate because someone else recommends it.

 

Any great programs that I'm not aware of? I'm thinking if I do Greek then I'd do the Greek Code Cracker and then Elementary Greek (all for oldest child). I have no plans at this point to do Greek, so I'm no help here.

 

For Latin, maybe Prima Latina or Song School Latin and then LFC. I'm planning to do SSL in 2nd grade, just for exposure. My Latin teacher in high school (yes, I'm a nerd, I took 3 years of Latin because I wanted to) taught a lot with songs and games and I remember more from those than I do from the standard text exercises.

 

For Spanish, Rosetta Stone? Honestly, I've heard RS is kind of boring. With children at the ages you have, I'd recommend La Clase Divertida. My daughter loves it and insists on doing Spanish daily.

[Alison in KY]

When you said it helps with comprehension, are you referring to kids being able to broaden their English vocabulary by learning some Greek/Latin root words?

[Classical Katharine]

At what point will that foreign language benefit you...at what level. Say we did Elementry Greek 1 and never touched Greek again, have we gained anything?

 

You can achieve some of the benefits of foreign language study even if you don't go all the way to fluency, but different benefits will be achieved at different times depending on what type of program you are using.

 

If you begin language study with a program that teaches lots of paradigms and forms as a foundation for later translation mastery, and then you don't continue with the language--you never get to the translation that all those forms were a preparation for--you won't get much from it. This type of program isn't intended to be discontinued, and doesn't "flower" unless you keep at it. If the program covers derivatives too, you'll at least have awakened an interest in the relationship between languages and you will have equipped your children with some tools for decoding English words.

 

If you think you might only do a few years of an inflected language, you'll get more out of a program that puts the forms to work in grammatically interesting ways sooner rather than later. That way if you drop the language you've at least encountered grammar and syntax in a deeper way, and that is something that will confer value even if you drop the language after a few years, or go on to a different language for variety.

 

If I go with Greek, will that also help me with English grammar?

 

Studying any inflected language has the potential to help you with your English grammar, but programs differ as to whether they explain all the English grammar you need to know along the way, or instead assume some knowledge of English grammar from elsewhere. Often it helps to study English grammar along with Latin grammar.

 

Looking forward to reading what others think!

[Mama Anna]

Katharine,

 

What's an "inflected language?" Could you give a couple of examples?

 

Thanks!

 

Mama Anna

[Aurelia]

When you said it helps with comprehension, are you referring to kids being able to broaden their English vocabulary by learning some Greek/Latin root words?

 

Yes.

[Classical Katharine]

. . . one in which the spelling of a word changes to show its grammatical function. Usually the spelling change occurs in the word's ending, but not always. Heavily inflected languages (in which these form or spelling changes are extensive and affect nouns as well as verbs) include Latin, Greek, and Russian.

 

English is not heavily inflected; its noun and pronoun system is almost without inflection and its verb system is somewhat inflected. In English, for example, you discern whether a noun is the subject or the direct object by word order, context, word meaning etc. It's still "girl" or "dog" or whatever, in either grammatical role. But in Latin, you discern the noun's grammatical role by the noun's ending, and word order is far more flexible as a result. So the Latin word "puella" (girl) can be used as the subject of a sentence, but when the same word is the direct object, it receives a different ending, and you see "puellam" in the sentence instead.

 

English has the remnants of inflection in the pronouns "he" and "him," "she" and "her," etc.--where one form is correct for the subject of the sentence, and another for the direct or indirect object--but we're all so used to that that we don't notice what's going on!

[Colleen in NS]

. . . one in which the spelling of a word changes to show its grammatical function. Usually the spelling change occurs in the word's ending, but not always. Heavily inflected languages (in which these form or spelling changes are extensive and affect nouns as well as verbs) include Latin, Greek, and Russian.

 

English is not heavily inflected; its noun and pronoun system is almost without inflection and its verb system is somewhat inflected. In English, for example, you discern whether a noun is the subject or the direct object by word order, context, word meaning etc. It's still "girl" or "dog" or whatever, in either grammatical role. But in Latin, you discern the noun's grammatical role by the noun's ending, and word order is far more flexible as a result. So the Latin word "puella" (girl) can be used as the subject of a sentence, but when the same word is the direct object, it receives a different ending, and you see "puellam" in the sentence instead.

 

English has the remnants of inflection in the pronouns "he" and "him," "she" and "her," etc.--where one form is correct for the subject of the sentence, and another for the direct or indirect object--but we're all so used to that that we don't notice what's going on!

 

That was a great explanation, thank you! I've wondered, too, exactly what "inflected language" meant - I thought it was something like you said, but this helped my understanding.

[Alison in KY]

bump, looking for more comments :D

[Mama Anna]

. . . one in which the spelling of a word changes to show its grammatical function. Usually the spelling change occurs in the word's ending, but not always. Heavily inflected languages (in which these form or spelling changes are extensive and affect nouns as well as verbs) include Latin, Greek, and Russian.

 

Thanks, Katharine!

 

Mama Anna

[Catwoman]

We just started using Rosetta Stone Spanish. I bought the homeschool edition so everyone could work at their own level, and it would be easier to keep track of who is doing what. (I'm using the program, too, and dh says he's going to start soon.)

 

I think it's an excellent program; ds9 is ok with it, but says it isn't as much fun as he'd hoped it would be. Apparently, there's a lack of the "eager love for learning part of homeschooling" here, too! ;)

 

I took Latin in school, and can honestly say I can't remember a bit of it. I also took years and years of French, and I can still read it, but you wouldn't want tho hear me try to speak it -- truly pathetic! When I was trying to decide on a foreign language for ds, Spanish seemed like the most practical choice, although dh was in favor of Italian, so we'll probably add that in, too... eventually.

 

I chose RS over other options because it seemed more interactive, and it was important to me to have someone else "doing the talking," because I don't have a clue about Spanish pronunciation.

 

Personally, I'm glad I bought RS. DS and I only started using it this week, but so far, he has scored at least 96% on each lesson, and seems to be retaining the information from one lesson to the next. I had a little trouble getting the software to work properly with the Student Management System when I first installed everything, but I called RS and the tech support guy was wonderful, and helped me get it up and running within minutes. (The first person I called pretty much told me to read the manual more carefully :glare:, so I hung up, called right back, and got the helpful guy.)

 

Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

Cat

[Alison in KY]

Is Rosetta stone all done on the computer?

[Catwoman]

Is Rosetta stone all done on the computer?

 

Yes and no.

 

Most of the people I know have only done the computer lessons, but there is also a student study guide, a workbook, and a workbook answer key that go along with the program. We're just getting started with the program, and we haven't used the books yet, but it looks like they are basic exercises to reinforce the lessons learned on the computer -- things like matching pictures to the correct Spanish words, matching Spanish phrases to the English translations, writing the translations to Spanish phrases, and doing crossword puzzles where you get the English word and fill in the puzzle with the Spanish words.

 

I think the workbook would be great to use on alternating days with the computer lessons. I was thinking that we might do a lesson on one day, and do the corresponding workbook page(s) on the next, to reinforce what we've already covered before moving on to the next lesson. I think it would be too long a class if we tried to do both the workbook and the computer stuff on the same day.

 

Cat

[Kessepha]

I love Greek. I absolutely think it is the best option out there for Christian homeschoolers. You will cover grammar and vocabulary (and even spelling) that will indeed give your English a serious boost, develop serious skills for foreign language study, and in the end you can read the New Testament.

 

However, you sound like you're easily intimidated on the language front, so I don't think Greek is for you (right now, anyway). It also helps a lot to have a background in the language you're teaching or be willing and ready to study along with the kids. The latter can certainly be done, but not if you're easily intimidated by the language.

 

For that reason, I strongly suggest you consider Spanish. It sounds like you're already kind of turned off on Latin. For linguistic study, improving English grammar, vocabulary, spelling and such, there are no better languages than Greek and secondarily Latin. But I it is far better to work on a more accessible language, particularly if you're not really language geeks right now, and make some actual progress in it.

 

A little of any language study will help, but study which gets in depth enough to read and communicate in is far more rewarding. Also deeper study in any language will help stretch your thinking patterns and your worldview. Pick one you'll actually do and do it right... that's far better than doing what everyone else says is the right one and not really getting anywhere with it.

 

And have fun. Languages really are fun.

[mcconnellboys]

Well, I think Latin would be simpler than Greek, but then Greek really intimidates me! The same company that writes Latin for Children also does Spanish for Children and I like the look of it. I plan on starting it with my son next year. We've already been dabbling around with Spanish through the elementary years and we do a once weekly, hour long class with a native speaker, too. I think getting them speaking the language with a native speaker on some sort of regular basis is really key to helping them progress over time in the language. I do like Rosetta Stone, too! I hear that they're adding in grammar and writing components which the original programming did not contain.

[ElizabethB]

Rudolph Flesch in his book "How to speak, write, and think more effectively," said that he believed that learning a foreign language improved your ability to think clearly and critically.

 

Interestingly, in the book "Let's Kill Dick and Jane," the same basic sentiment was expressed and also put forward as a cause of why the whole language gained such a hold on education--because of the lack of a requirement for foreign language training for education majors.

[cathmom]

You should get Rummy Roots and play that with your dc. They'll learn Latin and Greek roots that will help them with English.

[mcconnellboys]

Oh, yeah! I always forget about this - it's great!

[latinteach]

UGH!!

...But, latin sounds boring. And when I'm bored I'm just not interested in it...

 

Then again I thought about doing Greek because somehow that sounds more fun.

 

What is it about Latin that sounds boring?

 

What is it about Greek that sounds more fun?

 

Two important questions.

[Kessepha]

What is it about Latin that sounds boring?

 

What is it about Greek that sounds more fun?

 

Two important questions.

 

*snicker, chuckle, snort!*

 

To the person that said they thought Greek was intimidating... don't be intimidated. You can learn anything when you have the leisure to go at your own pace! Greek is no harder than Latin, it just has a different alphabet. You'd be surprised at how easy it is to learn a new alphabet, even a weird one like Hebrew is not as big deal as you might think. Greek accents are a pain, but very few accents effect the meaning of the words. In fact my Greek prof had us keep a list of "accents that matter" because most of them don't. If you're not going to be a graduate level Greek user, don't sweat the accents. :)

 

Tara