KidsHappen Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Ask everyone in your canoe to toss their shoes overboard. I literally :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaC Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) don't sweat it Shenan -- sub threads are typical. Just ignore the posts you don't want to read ;) If you hear banjo music, paddle faster :D That's cuz they LOST :D And we've lost rights ever since ;) um, I've SAID I don't feel like a true pacifist. Secularly, I have defined myself as having Objectivist leanings on the proportional use of force and recognizing all HUMAN rights. But when i examine Scripture, i don't see that view justified in the Prince of Peace. How I feel is rarely in line with what i know is right. We are all sinful. We all fail at keeping our own convictions, as well as God's ideal. To assume that one's convictions are wrong because they can not do the work to keep those convictions is a dangerous road to travel. For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. (Rom 7:14-20, NASB) Do I think Paul said that to his death? yeah, I think he very well may have. No, that's NOT what I'm afraid of. I think it's going to get a lot worse than that. Peek the answer to anger in ones heart is not pacifism but forgiveness. That is Martin Luther king was fasting and praying for, the ability to forgive not the ability to be a pacifist. That is what Stephen prayed for at his martyrdom, Father forgive them and it is what Jesus did at the cross. I have read you enough on this board and others to know that you chose pacifism because what is in your heart scares you, if you want I will cut and paste and quote. Until you deal with your anger all your pacifism will be is talking points and not internalized. That is why you can write that you think the only positive is civil war because you have not been able to really internalize what you claim to believe. Using pacifism as a patch for anger is like applying a band aid to a gangerous festering wound. All it does is temporarily contain the puss created by the infection. The answer to anger is forgiveness and then there is no puss or the seeing that the only positive is civil war which means the deaths of thousands if not millions of your fellow countrymen. Paul knew this and would not bless the miss use of the above passage. I think he would tell you to deal with the sin, letting the sun go down on your anger so that it does not control you (Eph 4:26 a Pauline Epistle) The only true way to pacifism is the ability to forgive. Edited February 11, 2009 by RebeccaC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaC Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) Would you two please take your dueling banjo's with you and create your own thread. This was never intended to be a discussion on whether Texas should secede and personally I find name calling a bit childish. If I wanted to listen to that I could just tune in to my kids this evening. Thank you! Shenan what you intend is neither here nor there. Threads take on a life of their own. The subject is pacifism not really Texas seceding. You did read each post carefully right I don't know but I am a bit worried about your reading comprehension skills ;) I am not sure that tuning out your real life children is good parenting but Hey to each his own. I am sure that on their own they will find out what is worth talking through. I never took the luxury of tuning out my boys and now find their company to be pleasant and peaceful. I hope in time you will find the same with your kids but.......... Edited February 11, 2009 by RebeccaC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Wow, I was going to answer the original OP's question and opened the last page, and through it was an entirely different thread. Nope, checked the title, same thread. Anyway, I hope that people will learn to be content with living within their means. In my simple way of thinking this could be an answer to so many other problems - marital problems due to financial issues, children growing up in stressful homes, discontent and unhappiness because we can't have what we think we should have, that entitlement attitude. That's my hope. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 (edited) Peek the answer to anger in ones heart is not pacifism but forgiveness. That is Martin Luther king was fasting and praying for, the ability to forgive not the ability to be a pacifist. That is what Stephen prayed for at his martyrdom, Father forgive them and it is what Jesus did at the cross. I have read you enough on this board and others to know that you chose pacifism because what is in your heart scares you, if you want I will cut and paste and quote. Until you deal with your anger all your pacifism will be is talking points and not internalized. That is why you can write that you think the only positive is civil war because you have not been able to really internalize what you claim to believe. Using pacifism as a patch for anger is like applying a band aid to a gangerous festering wound. All it does is temporarily contain the puss created by the infection. The answer to anger is forgiveness and then there is no puss or the seeing that the only positive is civil war which means the deaths of thousands if not millions of your fellow countrymen. Paul knew this and would not bless the miss use of the above passage. I think he would tell you to deal with the sin, letting the sun go down on your anger so that it does not control you (Eph 4:26 a Pauline Epistle) The only true way to pacifism is the ability to forgive. Rebecca, the reason I posted about civil war being the only POSITIVE is because our situation right now IS so bad. That doesn't mean I sincerely WANT to see civil war. It's pretty bad when the lesser of two evils is people dying through legislation, or war. Are you aware of how many of my fellow countrymen die everyday to legal abortion? Do you know what FOCA is? Have you followed the health care legislation slipped into the stimulus package that will apply extreme cost-benefit analysis to care for elderly people? I am absolutely aware of the concept of death in this country. The only true way to pacifism is the ability to forgive. You seem to have confused a couple of different issues here. Pacifism [choosing not to act in a lethal manner] is not the same as forgiveness or anger, and one does not lead to the other, though they can and sometimes do reinforce each other, just as the ability to forgive or not be angry can help a marriage ;). there is a difference between a person who is at peace with themselves and pacifism. You don't have to believe in pacifism to be able to forgive, and even a person who has embraced pacifism may have difficulties in forgiveness and anger. I'm pretty sure that being able to forgive yourself after intentionally crashing a plane full of people doesn't equal pacifism. I know soldiers in units can be very forgiving yet NOT follow a concept of pacifism. I'm not using pacifism as a patch for anger. I recognize that we all have a desire for justice. I also recognize that being able to forgive another person does not mean we cease to act in ways that are appropriate to the situation: forgiving a murderer doesn't mean we turn him loose. I don't "choose" pacifism because of what's in my heart -- I choose pacifism because REGARDLESS of what's in my heart, Scripture points TO pacifism. That I acknowledge my own sinful nature is not what leads me to the conclusion that pacifism is a Biblical concept. Feel free to cut and paste where I said that I choose pacifism BECAUSE OF what's in my heart and I will happily clarify the statement or point to context that explains it further. The question that has usually been brought up is "what are the Biblical grounds for pacifism" [which you have argued AGAINST, citing silence in certain passages as an OK for Christians to kill]. i disagree w/ that *interpretation* but agree that many choose to interpret it that way, and can understand why based on my own feelings of justifiable homicide. Many Christians think it is SCRIPTURALLY justifiable to kill another person. It is this misuse of scriptural justification that I take issue with. Pacifism is not a patch to be internalized: it is a scriptural concept given to us by The Prince of Peace Himself. Internalization is great, but we are fallible. Like many other Biblical concepts we Christians will fail at keeping them: we can't save ourselves by internalizing concepts. No matter how much we internalize the concept of marriage, we will have lust in our hearts. That constant struggle leads us to marriage conferences, books to renew our devotional time, and scriptural study to equip us in the constant spiritual battle in which we are engaged. that goes for other Biblical concepts like anger, worship, fellowship, pacifism, and eating [just to list a few]. i would be leery of ANYONE who isn't afraid of, knowledgeable about, or watchful of their own sinful nature. It is a terrifying adversary and rational fear is warranted. Thankfully we have peace in Christ alone, not in how well we internalize concepts. :) Edited February 12, 2009 by Peek a Boo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmkclscroggins Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Texans unite! melissa:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vida Winter Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I HOPE people will finally see how idiotic this mass spending is. But that ain't gonna happen. i HOPE my kids become millionaires to pay off the massive debt they will inherit. I HOPE that whatever worthless money they print will at least be interesting to look at. Sorry, I've had quite enough of HOPE and CHANGE. My dreams for this country are turning into nightmares, and I know I'm not the only one. I previously mentioned that The only CHANGE we'll have left is what's in our couch cushions. I didn't expect the fleecing of the people would be this quick or efficient. The country is learning that they can go ahead and spend spend spend --the gvt will bail you out. I am truly at the point where i think the only positive result would be a civil war. :iagree: There's a LOT more that I would add but I'm not up to getting banned today. Thanks, Peek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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