What positive results do you hope will come out of this economy?

[Shenan]

Remember.. I said "HOPE". ;) And please don't turn it into a political thread. I/we just want to dream and hope.....;)

 

Mine are:

 

1. more people will turn their hearts toward God.

 

2. BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!!

[Josie]

1. I hope people will see that they don't need everything they think they need.

2. I hope people will begin to see the value in the simple, an mostly free, things in life...being with family and friends.

[Shenan]

1. I hope people will see that they don't need everything they think they need.

2. I hope people will begin to see the value in the simple, an mostly free, things in life...being with family and friends.

 

 

:iagree:

[Tracey in TX]

1. "Buy it when we can afford it" mentality. (Gosh, might even include the government?)

2. Pay down debt. Use credit in case of emergency.

3. Normalize housing costs. ie no more housing bubble

4. Appreciate the free/low cost things in life.

5. Take the "princess" mentality and replace it with a more frugal and kinder hearted ideal.

6. Hoping a new industry will emerge which gives hope in the stock market, much like telecom did in the 90's.

[Parrothead]

1. "Buy it when we can afford it" mentality. (Gosh, might even include the government?)

2. Pay down debt. Use credit in case of emergency.

3. Normalize housing costs. ie no more housing bubble

4. Appreciate the free/low cost things in life.

5. Take the "princess" mentality and replace it with a more frugal and kinder hearted ideal.

6. Hoping a new industry will emerge which gives hope in the stock market, much like telecom did in the 90's.

Your #3 is mostly my hope.

[Shenan]

1. "Buy it when we can afford it" mentality. (Gosh, might even include the government?)

2. Pay down debt. Use credit in case of emergency.

3. Normalize housing costs. ie no more housing bubble

4. Appreciate the free/low cost things in life.

5. Take the "princess" mentality and replace it with a more frugal and kinder hearted ideal.

6. Hoping a new industry will emerge which gives hope in the stock market, much like telecom did in the 90's.

 

These are good! ;)

[Peek a Boo]

I HOPE people will finally see how idiotic this mass spending is. But that ain't gonna happen.

 

i HOPE my kids become millionaires to pay off the massive debt they will inherit.

 

I HOPE that whatever worthless money they print will at least be interesting to look at.

 

Sorry, I've had quite enough of HOPE and CHANGE.

My dreams for this country are turning into nightmares, and I know I'm not the only one.

 

I previously mentioned that The only CHANGE we'll have left is what's in our couch cushions. I didn't expect the fleecing of the people would be this quick or efficient.

 

The country is learning that they can go ahead and spend spend spend --the gvt will bail you out.

 

I am truly at the point where i think the only positive result would be a civil war.

[Jann in TX]

We don't have to wait for Civil War--we can (and are the only state that can do this) just go back to being an independent country.

 

If things get real bad I'm sure we will hear more and more about this option!

[Tracey in TX]

I am truly at the point where i think the only positive result would be a civil war.

Are you hankerin' for a SEVENTH Texas flag? LOL

[clwcain]

The complete and total collapse of the post-Christian Western world. From the ashes, can a real civilization with a real culture arise.

[KidsHappen]

I HOPE people will finally see how idiotic this mass spending is. But that ain't gonna happen.

 

i HOPE my kids become millionaires to pay off the massive debt they will inherit.

 

I HOPE that whatever worthless money they print will at least be interesting to look at.

 

Sorry, I've had quite enough of HOPE and CHANGE.

My dreams for this country are turning into nightmares, and I know I'm not the only one.

 

I previously mentioned that The only CHANGE we'll have left is what's in our couch cushions. I didn't expect the fleecing of the people would be this quick or efficient.

 

The country is learning that they can go ahead and spend spend spend --the gvt will bail you out.

 

I am truly at the point where i think the only positive result would be a civil war.

 

God Bless Texas! If things get really bad, I can always go home. Have you ever seen Jericho. The Free & Sovereign Nation of Texas saves the whole country.

[Tracey in TX]

From the ashes, can a real civilization with a real culture arise.

 

Is this a question or statement? What type of 'real culture'?

[KidsHappen]

I hope that things finally get bad enough that we have the revolution that is so clearly needed to return our government to the documents & principles that it was founded on. :smash: I have the following bumper stickers on my car:

 

Thomas Jefferson: Oh, we so need another revolution

 

The Gadsten Flag

 

Ben Franklin: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

I fly the Culpepper Flag in my front yard.

 

I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore. :cursing:

 

I am also a Libertarian and not happy with either polictical party. Both our governement and our country is a mess and it took both political parties to get us here! :banghead:

 

I am a member of Campaign for Liberty and we are working hard to really restore liberty, real money and limited government. :patriot:

[Peek a Boo]

We don't have to wait for Civil War--we can (and are the only state that can do this) just go back to being an independent country.

 

If things get real bad I'm sure we will hear more and more about this option!

 

 

oh, i WISH!!! unfortunately we don't really have that privilege --we'll have to duke it out ;)

 

http://www.texassecede.com/faq.asp

[Peek a Boo]

Is this a question or statement? What type of 'real culture'?

 

 

knowing Chris, i think it's a statement :D

 

but "real culture' is in the eye of the cultured ;)

[Gamom3]

1. "Buy it when we can afford it" mentality. (Gosh, might even include the government?)

2. Pay down debt. Use credit in case of emergency.

3. Normalize housing costs. ie no more housing bubble

4. Appreciate the free/low cost things in life.

5. Take the "princess" mentality and replace it with a more frugal and kinder hearted ideal.

6. Hoping a new industry will emerge which gives hope in the stock market, much like telecom did in the 90's.

 

As of right now..I fear that iff we don't get our house refinanced soon we might lose it come next May!!

I have been on the phone yesterday and most of the morning calling brokers!

Hopefully we will get it worked out!

[farmgirlinwv]

I HOPE people will finally see how idiotic this mass spending is. But that ain't gonna happen.

 

i HOPE my kids become millionaires to pay off the massive debt they will inherit.

 

I HOPE that whatever worthless money they print will at least be interesting to look at.

 

Sorry, I've had quite enough of HOPE and CHANGE.

My dreams for this country are turning into nightmares, and I know I'm not the only one.

 

I previously mentioned that The only CHANGE we'll have left is what's in our couch cushions. I didn't expect the fleecing of the people would be this quick or efficient.

 

The country is learning that they can go ahead and spend spend spend --the gvt will bail you out.

 

I am truly at the point where i think the only positive result would be a civil war.

 

:iagree:

 

If I may, I'm soooo freakin ticked off about the Census being moved as well!

 

I sent 3 emails last night to the White House...why I don't know....maybe if enough people show how ticked they are something will be done...otherwise I think eventually America is looking at another Revolution.

Edited February 10, 2009 by farmgirlinwv

[MyBlueLobsters]

I HOPE people will finally see how idiotic this mass spending is. But that ain't gonna happen.

 

i HOPE my kids become millionaires to pay off the massive debt they will inherit.

 

I HOPE that whatever worthless money they print will at least be interesting to look at.

 

Sorry, I've had quite enough of HOPE and CHANGE.

My dreams for this country are turning into nightmares, and I know I'm not the only one.

 

I previously mentioned that The only CHANGE we'll have left is what's in our couch cushions. I didn't expect the fleecing of the people would be this quick or efficient.

 

The country is learning that they can go ahead and spend spend spend --the gvt will bail you out.

 

I am truly at the point where i think the only positive result would be a civil war.

 

 

Preach it Peek!

Edited February 10, 2009 by MyBlueLobsters

[LisaNY]

Your #3 is mostly my hope.

 

I agree. Hopefully, consumers and banks have learned their lesson.

[LisaNY]

I hope that things finally get bad enough that we have the revolution that is so clearly needed to return our government to the documents & principles that it was founded on. :smash: I have the following bumper stickers on my car:

 

Thomas Jefferson: Oh, we so need another revolution

 

The Gadsten Flag

 

Ben Franklin: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

 

I fly the Culpepper Flag in my front yard.

 

I am mad as hell and I am not going to take it anymore. :cursing:

 

I am also a Libertarian and not happy with either polictical party. Both our governement and our country is a mess and it took both political parties to get us here! :banghead:

 

I am a member of Campaign for Liberty and we are working hard to really restore liberty, real money and limited government. :patriot:

 

You'd definitely get a honk and a "thumbs up" from me. :D

[GreenKitty]

I HOPE people will finally see how idiotic this mass spending is. But that ain't gonna happen.

 

i HOPE my kids become millionaires to pay off the massive debt they will inherit.

 

I HOPE that whatever worthless money they print will at least be interesting to look at.

 

Sorry, I've had quite enough of HOPE and CHANGE.

My dreams for this country are turning into nightmares, and I know I'm not the only one.

 

I previously mentioned that The only CHANGE we'll have left is what's in our couch cushions. I didn't expect the fleecing of the people would be this quick or efficient.

 

The country is learning that they can go ahead and spend spend spend --the gvt will bail you out.

 

I am truly at the point where i think the only positive result would be a civil war.

 

:iagree:

[Janna]

I HOPE people will finally see how idiotic this mass spending is. But that ain't gonna happen.

 

i HOPE my kids become millionaires to pay off the massive debt they will inherit.

 

I HOPE that whatever worthless money they print will at least be interesting to look at.

 

Sorry, I've had quite enough of HOPE and CHANGE.

My dreams for this country are turning into nightmares, and I know I'm not the only one.

 

I previously mentioned that The only CHANGE we'll have left is what's in our couch cushions. I didn't expect the fleecing of the people would be this quick or efficient.

 

The country is learning that they can go ahead and spend spend spend --the gvt will bail you out.

 

I am truly at the point where i think the only positive result would be a civil war.

 

I have to say, that as negative as this is, I agree. The result being a civil war is rather extreme, but I understand completely what you're saying and why you think that would be positive.

 

The scary thing is, it wouldn't be a civil war of state against state or north against south. It would neighbor against neighbor and how would THAT work? How bloody and horrible would THAT be? I see the necessity of it just to protect ourselves against socialism, but again, how would that even work? I'm sure it's slowly unfolding even as I type. Can you say Anarchy?

[clwcain]

I have to say, that as negative as this is, I agree. The result being a civil war is rather extreme, but I understand completely what you're saying and why you think that would be positive.

 

The scary thing is, it wouldn't be a civil war of state against state or north against south. It would neighbor against neighbor and how would THAT work? How bloody and horrible would THAT be? I see the necessity of it just to protect ourselves against socialism, but again, how would that even work? I'm sure it's slowly unfolding even as I type. Can you say Anarchy?

 

q.v. Rome, Republic of circa 100 B.C. until around, oh let's say, 27 B.C.

 

Thus always republics.

[swellmomma]

I hope I will find a date lol The economy will certainly level the playing field and guys won't think I am just out to take their money, because they won't have much either hehe

[I talk to the trees]

I HOPE people will finally see how idiotic this mass spending is. But that ain't gonna happen.

 

i HOPE my kids become millionaires to pay off the massive debt they will inherit.

 

I HOPE that whatever worthless money they print will at least be interesting to look at.

 

Sorry, I've had quite enough of HOPE and CHANGE.

My dreams for this country are turning into nightmares, and I know I'm not the only one.

 

I previously mentioned that The only CHANGE we'll have left is what's in our couch cushions. I didn't expect the fleecing of the people would be this quick or efficient.

 

The country is learning that they can go ahead and spend spend spend --the gvt will bail you out.

 

I am truly at the point where i think the only positive result would be a civil war.

 

:iagree:

 

The entitlement attitude is so deeply ingrained in this country that I honestly believe that nothing short of divine intervention can prevent a revolution. (I know. I'm just a Bluebird of Happiness today, aren't I?)

 

-Robin

[LG Gone Wild]

Remember.. I said "HOPE". ;) And please don't turn it into a political thread. I/we just want to dream and hope.....;)

 

Mine are:

 

1. more people will turn their hearts toward God.

 

2. BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!!!

 

 

Number one is a possibility. Number two, fat chance.

 

I hope for less idiotic products, businesses, and trends. I am not a fan of junk and waste.

[FriedClams]

1. That people will find real hope - the hope only available in Jesus Christ.

 

2. That we turn green - not green as some hokey ploy by Hollywood - but like during the depression - when things were used and reused, valued, not quickly thrown out and replaced. Victory gardens and the like. Really valuing the things that we purchase - less of a disposable society.

 

3. People buy things they need, with money that they actually have.

 

4. Tax breaks to keep one parent home with the kids (in lieu of cheaper, poorer child care or more big brother, government sponsored child care).

 

5. More families sitting together and eating dinner as a family and connecting. With the rise in prices for dining out and cutbacks on after school activities - maybe this will happen. It'll also lead to better nutrition and healthier eating.

 

6. That the Christian Church (meaning the people and infrastructure) step up and take care of one another and reach out to the world with all available resources. Fewer buildings - more meals. Fewer audio visual systems - more prayer and love and helping those in need in real ways. This is the time for hard work, turning our hearts and resources to God and revival.

 

7. Growth of the public library system. I'm just being really hopeful here since I know they've been hit too - but I am hoping that since more people will use it - they'll get more money and more books. I can hope. :)

 

 

Interesting discussion - it's neat to see us here looking and hoping for a silver lining. It's very encouraging for me!

[Tracey in TX]

:iagree:

 

The entitlement attitude is so deeply ingrained in this country that I honestly believe that nothing short of divine intervention can prevent a revolution.

 

 

 

Entitlement attitude will have to dissipate as the available funds decrease. Daddy's little princess won't get her pink Barbie jeep for 3rd birthday, or red convertible for her 16th birthday. Peers won't feel compelled to compete with the status these goods bring by using their credit cards. Credit won't be as readily available. Home loans will require 20% down once again. Car loans may even require the same.

 

Entitlement programs via the government are already taking a hit. (Not getting political, I promise!) Less available funds to grant to those who require or request more.

 

When we're low enough--economically and emotionally--we'll pick ourselves up by the proverbial bootstraps. It might be through education, military service, harder than ever work ethic, or old fashioned ingenuity.

 

I'm an idealist when it comes to America. I believe somewhere in the depths of her soul is the great country waiting to break free from greed.

[Tabrett]

I would love to see people become more "local" and less "global". I would like to see people buying and selling goods that were locally grown and made. I would like communities to become interdependant.

 

Unfortunatly, I think the government wants to go the opposite direction.

 

Global, global, global is all I hear.:nopity:

[Shenan]

1. That people will find real hope - the hope only available in Jesus Christ.

 

2. That we turn green - not green as some hokey ploy by Hollywood - but like during the depression - when things were used and reused, valued, not quickly thrown out and replaced. Victory gardens and the like. Really valuing the things that we purchase - less of a disposable society.

 

3. People buy things they need, with money that they actually have.

 

4. Tax breaks to keep one parent home with the kids (in lieu of cheaper, poorer child care or more big brother, government sponsored child care).

 

5. More families sitting together and eating dinner as a family and connecting. With the rise in prices for dining out and cutbacks on after school activities - maybe this will happen. It'll also lead to better nutrition and healthier eating.

 

6. That the Christian Church (meaning the people and infrastructure) step up and take care of one another and reach out to the world with all available resources. Fewer buildings - more meals. Fewer audio visual systems - more prayer and love and helping those in need in real ways. This is the time for hard work, turning our hearts and resources to God and revival.

 

7. Growth of the public library system. I'm just being really hopeful here since I know they've been hit too - but I am hoping that since more people will use it - they'll get more money and more books. I can hope. :)

 

 

Interesting discussion - it's neat to see us here looking and hoping for a silver lining. It's very encouraging for me!

 

Awww! This warmed my heart. Thank you for sharing!

:grouphug:

[Shenan]

Number one is a possibility. Number two, fat chance.

 

 

Well I can still hope can't I? :D

[Mommyof4ks]

We don't have to wait for Civil War--we can (and are the only state that can do this) just go back to being an independent country.

 

If things get real bad I'm sure we will hear more and more about this option!

 

Funny, I was thinking about that very thing a few weeks back.

 

I do hope that people will learn that living within our means is better than the stress of fear of losing everything when something goes wrong.

[RebeccaC]

I hope that our economy would shift to an asset-based economy rather than a credit-based one.

 

Gotta be bad when the pacifist start talking that the only positive would be civil war :001_rolleyes: So I wonder just who would fight, sacrifice, serve, die, in such a civil war backed by said board pacifists..... Oh I know all the non-Christians could do the killing...... Hmmmm what on earth is wrong with that picture..... Sorry just could not pass up on the irony, (paradox also comes to mind among other things,) when reading the comments for those on the board who like to debate the doctrinal merits of pacifism.

 

I for my part I hope for no such war and I am not even close to being a pacifist! Hope these comments don't get the thread killed :svengo: but if they do...... I am a proud thread killer :gnorsi:

Edited February 11, 2009 by RebeccaC

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but I hope that people learn to wait until they can afford something to actually buy it.

 

I hope that people start to use some common sense. You can't afford a $400,000 house if your yearly income is $25,000. This isn't rocket science. Not everyone gets to live in a mansion, no matter how low the interest rate is.

 

Most important, people should start appreciating the things that they have. You don't NEED to get the latest new thing when the old thing works just fine.

 

-Mrs. F

[Shenan]

 

Most important, people should start appreciating the things that they have. You don't NEED to get the latest new thing when the old thing works just fine.

 

-Mrs. F

 

:iagree:

 

We have someone like that in our house, but I won't mention names...His intials are dh. ;)

[5kidsforME]

I hope that people grow some brains, that the stimulus is a success, and the naysaying politicians get voted out of office and remains in hiding for the next 10 generations!

 

That the people that voted for the current administration are finally happy and that they don't complain about all that is coming to them.

[Valerie in MI]

I'm afraid I have no hope for anything positive. I'm far more pessimistic than I would be in a normal downturn and the reasons are political so I can't say anything more.

[teamturner]

We don't have to wait for Civil War--we can (and are the only state that can do this) just go back to being an independent country.

 

If things get real bad I'm sure we will hear more and more about this option!

 

My mil, who lives in FL, has already mentioned moving here if the need arises!

 

While watching the local news, they were reporting what some of the area cities where putting on their lists to Washington for what they want to spend their portion of the "Spendulus" money. One city had a big, multi-million arts center at the top of their list! Really?? I don't think that is going to stimulate the economy other than the actual building of the thing.

 

My hope is that we could actually get to a place where we have an alternative fuel/energy source and can drop foreign oil.

[Sharon H in IL]

1. Top story tonight: Fast food sales reach new lows as people learn to cook at home!

 

2. In a related story, parents begin listening to their children's hopes and worries, making meal time family bonding time.

[Peek a Boo]

Gotta be bad when the pacifist start talking that the only positive would be civil war :001_rolleyes: So I wonder just who would fight, sacrifice, serve, die, in such a civil war backed by said board pacifists..... Oh I know all the non-Christians could do the killing...... Hmmmm what on earth is wrong with that picture..... Sorry just could not pass up on the irony, (paradox also comes to mind among other things,) when reading the comments for those on the board who like to debate the doctrinal merits of pacifism.

 

I for my part I hope for no such war and I am not even close to being a pacifist! Hope these comments don't get the thread killed :svengo: but if they do...... I am a proud thread killer :gnorsi:

 

 

well, if you ask me what i think God's ideas and hopes are vs mine, i grant that there will be a difference ;)

 

Now if you've sincerely followed my thoughts about it at all w/ an intent to understand, you'd remember that I absolutely admit my failings: what i *feel* vs what I think scripture demands are at odds. I do what i don't want to do, and don't do what i know I should do ;).

 

So who would fight? well, that depends. Since not all Christians agree w/ a pacifistic doctrine of Thou Shalt Not Kill, then there are obviously going to be millions that feel a calling to carry a gun and shoot it to kill another person. And since most of this country isn't solidly Christian, I don't think we'd have much problem manning a war.

 

As for neighbor against neighbor? well, i think you'd see a big shift in geography as people started taking sides. Like, if TX were to declare its intent to secede, Plenty of people would exodus as well as immigrate. :D

Edited February 11, 2009 by Peek a Boo

[Retired]

We don't have to wait for Civil War--we can (and are the only state that can do this) just go back to being an independent country.

 

If things get real bad I'm sure we will hear more and more about this option!

 

 

I don't mean to change the thread but I live in central Alabama. We have discussed this (Texas as the only state that can leave).. We would move to Texas. The thing is they(US) will not let you leave peacefully. Texas has the oil! The US want let it go. There would be a war. The south would rise again:D

 

There is a lot of talk of a civil war, if the present government legislations like the HR45(gun regulation) pass

[Peek a Boo]

I don't mean to change the thread but I live in central Alabama. We have discussed this (Texas as the only state that can leave).. We would move to Texas. The thing is they(US) will not let you leave peacefully. Texas has the oil! The US want let it go. There would be a war. The south would rise again:D

 

There is a lot of talk of a civil war, if the present government legislations like the HR45(gun regulation) pass

 

 

Texas is NOT the only state that can secede: they can [or can't] secede w/ as much difficulty as any other state.

 

http://www.texassecede.com/faq.asp

 

I like the way Walter Williams puts it: The first civil war didn't work.

[RebeccaC]

well, if you ask me what i think God's ideas and hopes are vs mine, i grant that there will be a difference ;)

 

Now if you've sincerely followed my thoughts about it at all w/ an intent to understand, you'd remember that I absolutely admit my failings: what i *feel* vs what I think scripture demands are at odds. I do what i don't want to do, and don't do what i know I should do ;).

 

So who would fight? well, that depends. Since not all Christians agree w/ a pacifistic doctrine of Thou Shalt Not Kill, then there are obviously going to be millions that feel a calling to carry a gun and shoot it to kill another person. And since most of this country isn't solidly Christian, I don't think we'd have much problem manning a war.

 

As for neighbor against neighbor? well, i think you'd see a big shift in geography as people started taking sides. Like, if TX were to declare its intent to secede, Plenty of people would exodus as well as immigrate. :D

 

Ya, well Texas, did real fine last time it seceded. Seems like all the folks calling for secession that time round thought it was the answer to helping them keep their rights, their property, and the base of their economy in place. Hmmm... tho, doesn't seem like that worked out too well for them. I am always surprised to hear folks talking about we did it once we'll do it again, only state that can, as if.... Tad bit masochistic in my opinion but hey to each his own. Especially with all the US military bases in Texas and so much of the Texan economy based on those bases.

 

I have followed your thoughts on this for awhile and I don't think you are a true pacifist. I think you use it as a patch to fix what only God can fix, pacifism being used as an external self control that is not internalized nor a true fruit of the spirit or even a work of the Holy Spirit.

 

A true pacifist would pale at the thought of any one picking up a gun and fighting a war, especially to ease their personal suffering in a recession or to help them keep their rights or....... A true pacifist would not see a war as a positive and would not think or write no big deal there will be plenty of folks to take my place and do the hard sinful work of fighting, killing, and dieing (extreme paraphrase). The implied being, just so long as me and mine are fine........ and don't get our hands dirty killing/murdering and we keep our right and our finances turn out right.

 

I really like Martin Luther King who had for the foundation of his pacifism fasting and prayer and stood firm even when physically beaten and threatened with death. It was through fasting and prayer that he was willing to die and do the work that would hasten his death. That was true self control operating as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, won on his knees with an empty belly not gotten by reading pacifist web sites or pacifist books or....... It was walking the walk that God called him to, no personal retribution, no eye for and eye but a willingness to lay down his life for his people, his God given dream no matter the cost, paid out ahead of time through the personal sacrifice of fasting and prayer. Nope didn't hear or read him saying, "I do what I don't want to do, and don't do what I know I should do." Wonder if Paul said that as he walk to his death.... doubt it he won his self control on his knees with fasting, praying, and speaking in tongues more than the rest.

 

So 40 years latter we have to tighten our belts a bit and we're a little afraid we'll lose some rights and poof civil war is the only positive that will come from the tightening of our belts and by heck Texas should secede...... :lol: Yep I like that logic...... ;)

Edited February 11, 2009 by RebeccaC

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I hope:

 

1. That kindness and helpfulness outweigh the anger and depression.

 

2. That people stop looking for the government to solve the economic problems it got us into, and help themselves and each other instead.

 

3. That violence and fear will not prevail.

[Shenan]

well, if you ask me what i think God's ideas and hopes are vs mine, i grant that there will be a difference ;)

 

Now if you've sincerely followed my thoughts about it at all w/ an intent to understand, you'd remember that I absolutely admit my failings: what i *feel* vs what I think scripture demands are at odds. I do what i don't want to do, and don't do what i know I should do ;).

 

So who would fight? well, that depends. Since not all Christians agree w/ a pacifistic doctrine of Thou Shalt Not Kill, then there are obviously going to be millions that feel a calling to carry a gun and shoot it to kill another person. And since most of this country isn't solidly Christian, I don't think we'd have much problem manning a war.

 

As for neighbor against neighbor? well, i think you'd see a big shift in geography as people started taking sides. Like, if TX were to declare its intent to secede, Plenty of people would exodus as well as immigrate. :D

 

Ya, well Texas, did real fine last time it seceded. Seems like all the folks calling for secession that time round thought it was the answer to helping them keep their rights, their property, and the base of their economy in place. Hmmm... tho, doesn't seem like that worked out too well for them. I am always surprised to hear folks talking about we did it once we'll do it again, only state that can, as if.... Tad bit masochistic in my opinion but hey to each his own. Especially with all the US military bases in Texas and so much of the Texan economy based on those bases.

 

I have followed your thoughts on this for awhile and I don't think you are a true pacifist. I think you use it as a patch to fix what only God can fix, pacifism being used as an external self control that is not internalized nor a true fruit of the spirit or even a work of the Holy Spirit.

 

A true pacifist would pale at the thought of any one picking up a gun and fighting a war, especially to ease their personal suffering in a recession or to help them keep their rights or....... A true pacifist would not see a war as a positive and would not think or write no big deal there will be plenty of folks to take my place and do the hard sinful work of fighting, killing, and dieing (extreme paraphrase). The implied being, just so long as me and mine are fine........ and don't get our hands dirty killing/murdering and we keep our right and our finances turn out right.

 

I really like Martin Luther King who had for the foundation of his pacifism fasting and prayer and stood firm even when physically beaten and threatened with death. It was through fasting and prayer that he was willing to die and do the work that would hasten his death. That was true self control operating as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, won on his knees with an empty belly not gotten by reading pacifist web sites or pacifist books or....... It was walking the walk that God called him to, no personal retribution, no eye for and eye but a willingness to lay down his life for his people, his God given dream no matter the cost, paid out ahead of time through the personal sacrifice of fasting and prayer. Nope didn't hear or read him saying, "I do what I don't want to do, and don't do what I know I should do." Wonder if Paul said that as he walk to his death.... doubt it he won his self control on his knees with fasting, praying, and speaking in tongues more than the rest.

 

So 40 years latter we have to tighten our belts a bit and we're a little afraid we'll lose some rights and poof civil war is the only positive that will come from the tightening of our belts and by heck Texas should secede...... :lol: Yep I like that logic...... ;)

 

Would you two please take your dueling banjo's with you and create your own thread. This was never intended to be a discussion on whether Texas should secede and personally I find name calling a bit childish. If I wanted to listen to that I could just tune in to my kids this evening. Thank you!

Edited February 11, 2009 by Shenan
really dumb spelling mistake

[Peek a Boo]

don't sweat it Shenan -- sub threads are typical. Just ignore the posts you don't want to read ;) If you hear banjo music, paddle faster :D

 

Ya, well Texas, did real fine last time it seceded. Seems like all the folks calling for secession that time round thought it was the answer to helping them keep their rights, their property, and the base of their economy in place. Hmmm... tho, doesn't seem like that worked out too well for them.

 

That's cuz they LOST :D

And we've lost rights ever since ;)

 

I have followed your thoughts on this for awhile and I don't think you are a true pacifist. I think you use it as a patch to fix what only God can fix, pacifism being used as an external self control that is not internalized nor a true fruit of the spirit or even a work of the Holy Spirit.

 

um, I've SAID I don't feel like a true pacifist. Secularly, I have defined myself as having Objectivist leanings on the proportional use of force and recognizing all HUMAN rights. But when i examine Scripture, i don't see that view justified in the Prince of Peace. How I feel is rarely in line with what i know is right.

We are all sinful. We all fail at keeping our own convictions, as well as God's ideal. To assume that one's convictions are wrong because they can not do the work to keep those convictions is a dangerous road to travel.

 

For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. (Rom 7:14-20, NASB)

 

Do I think Paul said that to his death? yeah, I think he very well may have.

 

So 40 years latter we have to tighten our belts a bit and we're a little afraid we'll lose some rights and poof civil war is the only positive that will come from the tightening of our belts and by heck Texas should secede...... :lol: Yep I like that logic...... ;)

 

No, that's NOT what I'm afraid of. I think it's going to get a lot worse than that.

[Shenan]

If you hear banjo music, paddle faster :D.

 

I'm paddlin'...I'm paddlin' with everything I've got. Apparently I'm up the river without my useful resources again.......:D

 

Note to self: find out where the kids hid the boat oars...

[tibbyl]

I'm paddlin'...I'm paddlin' with everything I've got. Apparently I'm up the river without my useful resources again.......:D

 

Note to self: find out where the kids hid the boat oars...

 

Ask everyone in your canoe to toss their shoes overboard.

[Shenan]

Ask everyone in your canoe to toss their shoes overboard.

 

We's would if'n we had any of them thar LUXURY things called shoes...

Edited February 11, 2009 by Shenan
I can't spell tonight. Even when I'm intentionally misspelling!

[Peek a Boo]

Ask everyone in your canoe to toss their shoes overboard.

 

 

...which is why it is so important to keep your shoes ON when entering another person's canoe --ya never know when you might need SOMEthing to throw ;)