Annie Laurie Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I'm feeling weighed down by how much I'm trying to do with four different kids. I have slowly moved from an unschooling mindset to a Classical mindset over the last couple of years. My oldest son is doing great really, but he didn't learn some basic skills (like notetaking and organizing his work) early on, didn't learn any classical or foreign languages, and isn't terribly disciplined. However, he has retained a ton of history and can discuss major historical events and time periods intelligently, even after just staring history formally in 7th grade. He also is an instinctively good writer and needed help organizing it and polishing it a bit, but has caught on quickly and is writing well. Due to all of this, I have conflicting viewpoints: 1) The time needs to be put in early on building a solid foundation and good study habits and skills or it's a lot more work for mom getting the dc to that point later. 2) Some things are learned so much more deeply and retained a lot better at a later age. (History, for example). This leads me to thinking that the best way for me to cut down on my load a little would be to approach subjects like history and science in a relaxed way during the grammar stage, and to spend my time and energy working on things like memory work, dictation, narration, reading, spelling, math, poetry, and classical languages. I would still read aloud to them a lot also, but we would just explore whatever history or science topic they're interested in when we feel like it. The only thing that gives me pause is that this pared down version of school sounds kind of dry. They play and explore a lot on their own and learn plenty that way and can read about history too if they want, but they have really enjoyed our history studies, love the hands-on projects and love science. Thoughts? Should I go read The Latin Centered Curriculum- would that be helpful for what I'm seeking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 the best way for me to cut down on my load a little would be to approach subjects like history and science in a relaxed way during the grammar stage, and to spend my time and energy working on things like memory work, dictation, narration, reading, spelling, math, poetry, and classical languages. I would still read aloud to them a lot also, but we would just explore whatever history or science topic they're interested in when we feel like it. The only thing that gives me pause is that this pared down version of school sounds kind of dry. They play and explore a lot on their own and learn plenty that way and can read about history too if they want, but they have really enjoyed our history studies, love the hands-on projects and love science. Thoughts? I know little to nothing about LCC. I would agree that focusing on the 3R's (I probably wouldn't even add classical languages to that list) in the grammar stage will not hinder a child regarding his ability to learn history and science later. I would disagree that memory work, dictation, narration, reading, spelling, and poetry are dry! Also, you can include history and science in these things instead of "doing" a history or science curriculum. Oh, and I don't think math is dry either.:tongue_smilie: Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 I don't think those things are dry either, but worry that it might feel dry to the kids. They look forward to history. We all love reading, I'm just referring to assigned reading. Okay, I admit, I do find math dry but I try not to show it! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Your 14 year old could easily do Latina Christiana I, II and then move into Henle...and be far enough along before he graduated. I think it's easier to do when you're doing it with another family...like any other important subject. (Just the once a week part, it takes about 1.5 hrs, once a week and then some homework) My now 16 year old daughter, started when she was 13. She'll be able to make it out of Henle Book I, which is equal to 2 years of Highschool Latin. Carrie:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 This leads me to thinking that the best way for me to cut down on my load a little would be to approach subjects like history and science in a relaxed way during the grammar stage, and to spend my time and energy working on things like memory work, dictation, narration, reading, spelling, math, poetry, and classical languages. I would still read aloud to them a lot also, but we would just explore whatever history or science topic they're interested in when we feel like it. This is pretty much what I do - focus on skills, and a little more relaxed about content. I do, however, keep content somewhat organized - meaning, this year we are doing ancient history and biology, and we have spines for them. This is so they get some kind of order to these subjects in their minds. But the relaxed part comes when I get piles of books out of the library, let them read whatever interests them from the piles, and let them choose topics from them with which to do writing skills work. We do perform science experiments whenever possible and the kids do history and science projects on their own that they think up (crafts, building history things with Legos, dressing up and play acting, exploring the woods with a magnifying glass, etc.). And I listen a lot to them, esp. when they come to tell me something that they read or discovered or are doing. Often, it's something related to history/science/Latin/art/music. So, yes, we pretty much do what you are wondering about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan in Mass Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Did we. Something like that GRIN. Mine are 14 and 18 now, 8th and 12th grade (more or less). I have never, ever regretted taking this approach. I dealt with the dry problem (which I agree with you about), by having school hours during which we "do" school. This is when everyone knows they have to work hard, and it might not be much fun. For a long time, I did history and science on Fridays. We also did math and Latin those days, but we didn't do any of the other things. For those content subjects, the children chose their own projects. I tried to make the skills interesting when I could, but I didn't worry too much if they weren't. For "reading", we just read interesting books. We did grammar through Latin after the first little bit, which made it more interesting. Our Latin was reading based, so it was interesting. Hard work, but not dry. Math was hard work but not dry. Some of the other things weren't bad, either. It didn't turn out to be too bad, and since there was an ending time, they didn't mind working hard. I tried to put the hardest stuff first. Dry is often efficient, and my children appreciated that. They didn't want to delay the things they didn't like by making them more fun. They just wanted them over quickly. I think this method combined the best of both worlds - classical and unschooling. It is part of why I like TWTM. You can have your cake and eat it too, sort of GRIN. -Nan Edited February 4, 2009 by Nan in Mass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenadina Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 LCC sounds like it would be a good fit for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveBaby Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 This leads me to thinking that the best way for me to cut down on my load a little would be to approach subjects like history and science in a relaxed way during the grammar stage, and to spend my time and energy working on things like memory work, dictation, narration, reading, spelling, math, poetry, and classical languages. I would still read aloud to them a lot also, but we would just explore whatever history or science topic they're interested in when we feel like it. I think you are absolutely onto something. I know you allow your children lots of read aloud time, play time etc. and that is what they adore and live for at this age, IMO. I was all worked up about science this summer (for a 3rd, K and two tag-alongs) when we had a praying mantis egg sack hatch on our house. My children all came running in and my oldest handed them all the books we had that she knew had info about praying mantis' in them. Then they were all on the couch quickly scanning books for pictures. She would read the information and then move on to the next book. The boys were looking at her like she was "the bomb!" LOL I figure, if I've taught them enough to want to look something up to learn more about it, then I've done my job for now. If I had tried to get them to sit down and listen to me read about praying mantis, they wouldn't have gotten nearly as much out of it. Or worse, we'd have all been inside "hitting the books" and missed the opportunity altogether! I know that now that we focus mostly on skill subjects and do the rest as an addition to our learning, schooling is a lot more fun! I don't feel the pressure to finish a set curriculum in a certain period of time to move to the next thing and the kids have plenty of time to just be kids, exploring, building and learning on their own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Well if you use the content subjects as practice in your skills (write narrations for history, etc.), then you get both. If I had a lot of kids, I'd probably do like Nan was saying and focus on nailing math and LA for all of them Mon-Thurs and do content subjects on Fri. I don't think it's sensible to take content subjects to just willy-nilly randomness, because kids actually enjoy covering some content. It's fun, and a progression gets them more into it. Animals you can do randomly, but once you hit chemistry and physics, it's really nice to have a book and work through. Even just once a week would be enough, then let them do kits and their own thing the rest of the time. That once a week spine session is the inspiration for their play the rest of the week. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 LCC! I read LCC and basically boiled it all down to: Math, Writing, and Latin daily, everything else is icing. If we get those done then we are fine. Mind you our Latin includes grammar, writing, history, and even art studies! (Lively Latin) Other than that I don't really follow the scheduling or curriculum recommendations. Although I do want to get the 2nd edition of LCC eventually. I found that as soon as I changed my thinking we actually got a lot more done! History and science happen 2-3 times a week, but I have let go of the angst about scheduling them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 We've had some things happen recently that have made me re-evaluate my teaching and my daughter's needs. I decided to simplify my "mission" and my overall homeschooling approach and really think about my goals for my dd's long-term education. What I personally came up with (and obviously YMMV) is that I want my daughter to graduate from home high school with three things: math fluency, Latin fluency, and a love of learning. I believe that if she has those three things in hand, she can go on to do anything she wants. I realize not everyone places that much importance on Latin. But through Latin, she learns grammar, vocabulary, and perhaps most importantly, how to think effectively, and that she can master a difficult subject with perseverance and hard work. So Math and Latin are the skills that we work on every day, in a systematic and methodical way. But I have decided to "let go" of my need to teach content areas in a systematic way, and instead give her the freedom to explore these in a way that suits her. I'm not saying they will be totally child-led, because I do have certain expectations, and I intent to serve as a guide. But I want more freedom and flexibility here than what I used to give her, because I feel that's the only way to accomplish my third goal: that she have a love of learning. My dd is very creative, very "right-brained". So I'm letting go of *my* need for textbooks and workbooks and trying to use a more hands-on, child-led, fun, and creative methods. So, I don't know if that helps you at all, but there's my $0.02. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 I do, however, keep content somewhat organized - meaning, this year we are doing ancient history and biology, and we have spines for them. This is so they get some kind of order to these subjects in their minds. But the relaxed part comes when I get piles of books out of the library, let them read whatever interests them from the piles, and let them choose topics from them with which to do writing skills work. This makes sense, it sounds like if we were to use SOTW as a spine and then just get books out of the library, which is something I've been thinking of. I love Sonlight but at my younger set's ages, I just don't think it's necessary to be so tied to a schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 I have never, ever regretted taking this approach. I dealt with the dry problem (which I agree with you about), by having school hours during which we "do" school. This is when everyone knows they have to work hard, and it might not be much fun. For a long time, I did history and science on Fridays. We also did math and Latin those days, but we didn't do any of the other things. For those content subjects, the children chose their own projects. I tried to make the skills interesting when I could, but I didn't worry too much if they weren't. For "reading", we just read interesting books. We did grammar through Latin after the first little bit, which made it more interesting. Our Latin was reading based, so it was interesting. Hard work, but not dry. Math was hard work but not dry. Some of the other things weren't bad, either. It didn't turn out to be too bad, and since there was an ending time, they didn't mind working hard. I tried to put the hardest stuff first. Dry is often efficient, and my children appreciated that. They didn't want to delay the things they didn't like by making them more fun. They just wanted them over quickly. I think this method combined the best of both worlds - classical and unschooling. It is part of why I like TWTM. You can have your cake and eat it too, sort of GRIN.-Nan I like your ideas here, and it's reassuring too hear that this has served you all well. History and science on Fridays isn't a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Go read LCC. LCC sounds like it would be a good fit for you! I might finally order it, it's always scared me off though! I do love the author's Living Memory book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 I think you are absolutely onto something. I know you allow your children lots of read aloud time, play time etc. and that is what they adore and live for at this age, IMO. I was all worked up about science this summer (for a 3rd, K and two tag-alongs) when we had a praying mantis egg sack hatch on our house. My children all came running in and my oldest handed them all the books we had that she knew had info about praying mantis' in them. Then they were all on the couch quickly scanning books for pictures. She would read the information and then move on to the next book. The boys were looking at her like she was "the bomb!" LOL I figure, if I've taught them enough to want to look something up to learn more about it, then I've done my job for now. If I had tried to get them to sit down and listen to me read about praying mantis, they wouldn't have gotten nearly as much out of it. Or worse, we'd have all been inside "hitting the books" and missed the opportunity altogether! I know that now that we focus mostly on skill subjects and do the rest as an addition to our learning, schooling is a lot more fun! I don't feel the pressure to finish a set curriculum in a certain period of time to move to the next thing and the kids have plenty of time to just be kids, exploring, building and learning on their own! Exactly! My kids do similar things all the time, they also love insects and are always looking up and reading information on them. This is why I've always loved unschooling, I've seen how kids have a natural curiosity and eagerness to learn. I do feel that pressure with a curriculum sometimes, but I've tried to make learning really count and not worry about the schedule too much. The other day my kids wanted to put on a play about Egypt when I was done reading, and so I didn't get to the rest of our history stuff that day but I thought their idea was a great way to narrate what they've learned so far, and a lot more meaningful then doing something else because it's on the schedule. Then that leads me to wondering why I'm buying curriculum for history in the first place. But history is my pet subject so it's hard for me to put it on the back burner for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 That once a week spine session is the inspiration for their play the rest of the week. :) Good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 I found that as soon as I changed my thinking we actually got a lot more done! History and science happen 2-3 times a week, but I have let go of the angst about scheduling them. That's what's been happening here. For too long, history was my emphasis but I've pared it down to twice a week and we do get a lot more done now. It feels freeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 My dd is very creative, very "right-brained". So I'm letting go of *my* need for textbooks and workbooks and trying to use a more hands-on, child-led, fun, and creative methods. So, I don't know if that helps you at all, but there's my $0.02. :D That was helpful, thanks for posting. I have been very much emphasizing the hands-on, creative things my two middles, especially, thrive on. That's part of why I've felt so weighed down lately. I do think the way we've been approaching things is much more meaningful for them now, but it takes so much longer being so hands-on with everything. Hopefully we'll find the right balance by being more free with history and science. Still working on figuring it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahamamama Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Dry is often efficient, and my children appreciated that. Nan, Can I quote you for the rest of my homeschooling days? That comment is so perfect and so frameable. I love it! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 if we were to use SOTW as a spine and then just get books out of the library..........I love Sonlight but at my younger set's ages, I just don't think it's necessary to be so tied to a schedule. This is exactly what I do and why I do it. I hate being tied to another curriculum's schedule. I feel that we accomplish more by this structured freedom, and handing more reading over to my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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