Those who have used both Saxon and Singapore Math

[Macrina]

OK some serious question for those who are familiar with both. I have Saxon but I am considering Singapore for my youngest.

 

1.) Does Singapore "walk you through" each lesson as the parent? Is it scripted?

 

2.) Is Singapore logical? In the sense that I find Saxon to be: it teaches dimes and pennies, and then tens and ones and then adding double digits, all while tying it back in to the dimes and pennies. Also the memorization of math facts isn't just memorization, it is the teaching of logical memory "tricks" to remember the fact, does Singapore do this too?

 

3.) Does Singapore offer or encourage much use of manipulatives?

 

4.) Does the Singapore placement test resemble the actual program at all, because my son and I found the placement test tedious.

 

5.) How else does if differ from Saxon- good or bad.

 

TIA, I really appreciate ANY input, as this decision is totally stressing me out right now. I just starting feeling really comfortable with Saxon and DD loves it, but DS is accelorated in math and I am afriad he may need something different; less repetiontion, fast moving....but I don't want to sacrifice the other parts of Saxon that I value as a result of my switch- YKWIM?

[Laura in STL]

I used Saxon 1 through 5/4 for ds8 for grades K through 2. Math is easy for him and he did fine with Saxon. Dd6 struggled with Saxon 1 in K, even though she had already been through the Saxon K book. I decided to try Singapore from advice here on the board. I switched both kids, because I heard that Singapore is good for advanced kids. So, to answer you questions:

 

1. Singapore is not scripted. It does not hold your hand like Saxon.

 

2. I find Singapore logical, but in a very different way than Saxon. The programs are very different. Singapore does not use what I would call memory tricks, but teaches kids to understand more than Saxon. You do need to add more drill to Singapore. It doesn't have all the drill sheets like Saxon.

 

3. Manipulatives are referred to in the Home Instructor's Guide. The younger levels also have pictures in the books that could be modeled with manipulatives.

 

4. I never used the placement test.

 

5. Singapore doesn't have the Morning Meeting aspect. I have to remember to include calendar, counting, and money activities periodically. Singapore is a mastery program, and Saxon is spiral.

 

I was also very nervous to make the switch. I thought spiral was the way to go. It worked great for ds8 in the early years, but I actually like the mastery approach now that he is older. Singapore does include review of older concepts, so they don't forget them.

 

As far as dd6 is concerned, she understands so much better with Singapore. She just didn't get the Saxon way of explaining things. Last year she couldn't get her addition facts down, now she is able to do addition with carrying.

 

I think Singapore is a little more work for me as the teacher, because I have to look through the HIG before the lesson. You don't just read it like Saxon. I think some people use Saxon and Singapore together, but we are really quite happy with Singapore alone.

 

HTH. Good luck with your decision.

[MrsMe]

OK some serious question for those who are familiar with both. I have Saxon but I am considering Singapore for my youngest.

 

1.) Does Singapore "walk you through" each lesson as the parent? Is it scripted?

 

2.) Is Singapore logical? In the sense that I find Saxon to be: it teaches dimes and pennies, and then tens and ones and then adding double digits, all while tying it back in to the dimes and pennies. Also the memorization of math facts isn't just memorization, it is the teaching of logical memory "tricks" to remember the fact, does Singapore do this too?

 

3.) Does Singapore offer or encourage much use of manipulatives?

 

4.) Does the Singapore placement test resemble the actual program at all, because my son and I found the placement test tedious.

 

5.) How else does if differ from Saxon- good or bad.

 

TIA, I really appreciate ANY input, as this decision is totally stressing me out right now. I just starting feeling really comfortable with Saxon and DD loves it, but DS is accelorated in math and I am afriad he may need something different; less repetiontion, fast moving....but I don't want to sacrifice the other parts of Saxon that I value as a result of my switch- YKWIM?

 

 

If it's working, stick with it. Use Singapore as practice. Singapore isn't scripted and some parents have issues w/teaching it, because it's a different type of learning. But it also depends on the level. I love the way Singapore makes kids think, but I can't use it because I need the hand holding. I think it needs more review and drill. Some don't and use as is. If your child is accelerated he may not need the drill & review. If you're good at teaching and knowing Math, it'll be fine for you.

 

I don't know that Singapore covers all that Saxon does in the odder areas. You'd have to check the scope and sequence. I know they cover different skills, like measurements, weights, time, etc. at different times. As far as the different thinking like Saxon, i.e. 9+6 is really 10+5, yes they do do this type of thing, although it may not be in this way. All math programs have their ways.

 

Saxon is good that if you need review it's there. Singapore, not so much. I'd rather have it and skip it than to not have it and go back and try to review. But IMO, I'd opt for skipping a level or give him additional math skills to work on; either Singapore sheets or some other math thinking skills.

 

I used 1A only so take this info for what it's worth. I opted to return to Saxon and use Singapore for extra practice because I like the way it makes them think. If you like Saxon, I'm not sure you'll be comfortable teaching Singapore without the scripted TM. I like knowing level-related verbage to use, whether I use all the scripting or not. Singapore is a great program, I'm just not math oriented enough to teach it. :lol:

[Macrina]

If it's working, stick with it. Use Singapore as practice. Singapore isn't scripted and some parents have issues w/teaching it, because it's a different type of learning. But it also depends on the level. I love the way Singapore makes kids think, but I can't use it because I need the hand holding. I think it needs more review and drill. Some don't and use as is. If your child is accelerated he may not need the drill & review. If you're good at teaching and knowing Math, it'll be fine for you.

 

I don't know that Singapore covers all that Saxon does in the odder areas. You'd have to check the scope and sequence. I know they cover different skills, like measurements, weights, time, etc. at different times. As far as the different thinking like Saxon, i.e. 9+6 is really 10+5, yes they do do this type of thing, although it may not be in this way. All math programs have their ways.

 

Saxon is good that if you need review it's there. Singapore, not so much. I'd rather have it and skip it than to not have it and go back and try to review. But IMO, I'd opt for skipping a level or give him additional math skills to work on; either Singapore sheets or some other math thinking skills.

 

I used 1A only so take this info for what it's worth. I opted to return to Saxon and use Singapore for extra practice because I like the way it makes them think. If you like Saxon, I'm not sure you'll be comfortable teaching Singapore without the scripted TM. I like knowing level-related verbage to use, whether I use all the scripting or not. Singapore is a great program, I'm just not math oriented enough to teach it. :lol:

 

Oh this is so helpful! You and I sound alike here!

 

Keep it coming mamas! I need all the input I can get here :)

[Wildiris]

OK some serious question for those who are familiar with both. I have Saxon but I am considering Singapore for my youngest.

 

1.) Does Singapore "walk you through" each lesson as the parent? Is it scripted?

Singapore is scripted if you use the Home Teacher's Guide.

2.) Is Singapore logical? In the sense that I find Saxon to be: it teaches dimes and pennies, and then tens and ones and then adding double digits, all while tying it back in to the dimes and pennies. Also the memorization of math facts isn't just memorization, it is the teaching of logical memory "tricks" to remember the fact, does Singapore do this too?

 

3.) Does Singapore offer or encourage much use of manipulatives?

 

4.) Does the Singapore placement test resemble the actual program at all, because my son and I found the placement test tedious.

 

5.) How else does if differ from Saxon- good or bad.

They are very different approaches to math. I would not say one was "Bad or Good" I used both Singapore and Saxon Math together to a great result. When Saxon Math gets to a higher level it no longer meets most state targets for math at grade level. Singapore is just too different to use as a stand alone program if you are require to take state testing as it does not come close to following a state sequence of math standards. I used Singapore to accelerate my DD's math. The word problems are very challenging even at the beginning elementary level. Using Singapore 1 A&B- 6A&B plus Challenging Word Problems, Calvert Math grade 1-3, Saxon Math 54-76 together, My DD is now working her way through Chalk Dust Prealgebra with ease and she is 11 years old.

TIA, I really appreciate ANY input, as this decision is totally stressing me out right now. I just starting feeling really comfortable with Saxon and DD loves it, but DS is accelorated in math and I am afriad he may need something different; less repetiontion, fast moving....but I don't want to sacrifice the other parts of Saxon that I value as a result of my switch- YKWIM?

 

 

I hope this comment gives you some perspective from one person's experience with math.

[shiloh]

Macrina - I've been thwarted in my attempts to get going in Singapore, too, because I need more teaching direction.

 

Does anyone know of any resources that help parents better facilitate Singapore???

 

I feel that my interpretation is confusing my daughter.

 

Thanks!!!

Edited January 22, 2009 by shiloh

[Macrina]

Macrina - I've been thwarted in my attempts to get going in Singapore, too, because I need more teaching direction.

 

Does anyone know of any resources that help parents better facilitate Singapore???

 

I feel that my interpretation is confusing my daughter.

 

Thanks!!!

 

Wildiris posted that it is scripted if you use the teaching guide? I find it all confusing. Singapore seems to have too many components. With Saxon you just click "add to cart" and you have everything you need! I want to do what's best for DS but I need to be cool with it too, ya' know? At the same time if I need to get out of my confort zone for his best intrest- then I oughta'!

[EKS]

1.) Does Singapore "walk you through" each lesson as the parent? Is it scripted?

 

Singapore itself doesn't walk you through the lessons but if you get the Instructor's Guide that will walk you through to some extent. It is not scripted though.

 

2.) Is Singapore logical? In the sense that I find Saxon to be: it teaches dimes and pennies, and then tens and ones and then adding double digits, all while tying it back in to the dimes and pennies. Also the memorization of math facts isn't just memorization, it is the teaching of logical memory "tricks" to remember the fact, does Singapore do this too?

 

I actually find Singapore to be more logical than Saxon in that I find it to be more transparent than Saxon.

 

3.) Does Singapore offer or encourage much use of manipulatives?

 

The IG suggests manipulatives and from looking at the pictures in the textbook it is usually apparent what manipulative to pull out if your child needs more concrete representation of the concepts.

 

4.) Does the Singapore placement test resemble the actual program at all, because my son and I found the placement test tedious.

 

The placement tests resemble the program in that those are the types of problems that you learn how to solve in it. When you're actually working with the program I think you'll find that the lessons aren't usually tedius. I know my son (almost 7yo in 2B) finds it to be refreshing compared to Saxon (was 2/3 through Math 3). The lessons are much shorter and more varied than in Saxon.

 

5.) How else does if differ from Saxon- good or bad.

 

I think Singapore is far superior to Saxon for a gifted math student. The problems, especially as you get to the more advanced levels, are much more challenging. It is also good for accelerated students in that it has a workbook format all the way through the 6th grade level. Saxon drove my older son crazy (he is 2-3 years accelerated) and it was starting to drive my little one nuts too. I could see him turning off his brain with the Saxon because it was mind numbing for him (this is my interpretation). When we switched to Singapore (actually switched back; he did 2A last spring) he had a few days of telling me it was too hard but then his brain switched on and ever since he has enjoyed math and his confidence has soared *and* he has been doing much harder problems than he was getting in Saxon *in his head*.

 

One thing you have to be careful about is making sure your child gets enough drill and review. Different children need different amounts of these things. For my 6yo, when he was working through 2A, we just used the textbook and workbook with some flashcard work for drill. This was not enough for him. So this time he is doing the mental math (in the back of the IG) for addition/subtraction drill (instead of flashcards) and uses a Flashmaster for multiplication drill. After doing a section in the textbook/workbook, for review he does the corresponding section in the Intensive Practice book and then the corresponding section in the Challenging Word Problems book. I'm hoping that this will be enough to cement the material in his brain until it rolls around again in some form in the program.

 

I wish I had used Singapore all the way through with my oldest. We did 3 1/2 levels of Saxon and then MUS Beta-Zeta to undo the damage Saxon (and my lack of understanding of how to teach math) caused. I used Singapore with him as a supplement. I should have gotten a clue when he was doing CWP 4 and telling me how much he loved it. Oh well. By the time I finish homeschooling these children I will be experienced enough to homeschool, LOL.

 

The book Elementary Mathematics for Teachers sold on the Singapore Math website gives a good overview of the program. It's heavy going, but I know that it has made me much more confident teaching math the "Singapore" way.

[fractalgal]

OK some serious question for those who are familiar with both. I have Saxon but I am considering Singapore for my youngest.

 

1.) Does Singapore "walk you through" each lesson as the parent? Is it scripted?

 

No, but it is done in a logical way so it is not too hard to catch on at the younger levels. It shows pictures to help illustrate what is going on. I think it is fun.

 

2.) Also the memorization of math facts isn't just memorization, it is the teaching of logical memory "tricks" to remember the fact, does Singapore do this too?

 

Not so much, but I have only used the first four levels.

 

3.) Does Singapore offer or encourage much use of manipulatives?

 

The HIG does, but I use my Saxon manipulatives or things around the house for this.

 

4.) Does the Singapore placement test resemble the actual program at all, because my son and I found the placement test tedious.

 

I have not had my children take this, because I started using Singapore from the beginning levels.

5.)

 

fast moving....but I don't want to sacrifice the other parts of Saxon that I value as a result of my switch- YKWIM?

 

One thing I have done with my daughter is combine lessons in groups of three with Saxon. We do the lesson practice for the first three and the mixed practice only for the last lesson.

 

As far as Singapore, I really like the intensive practice workbooks. They are challenging beyond the regular workbook. That is something you could add in as well.

 

Combining Saxon and Singapore is a lot of work, so be forewarned that it takes a bit more preparation on the part of the teacher. There must also be a careful balance so as not to overload nor overwhelm nor be too redundant. Planning ahead is the best advice I could give you if you take on two curriculums. It can be done and done well.

 

My children have had no major problems with either Saxon or Singapore. I like them both and very much understand and can relate to what you are trying to accomplish.

 

Good Luck :)

[coffeegal]

OK some serious question for those who are familiar with both. I have Saxon but I am considering Singapore for my youngest.

 

You've had great answers for questions 1-4. I have a different perspective on question #5.

 

5.) How else does if differ from Saxon- good or bad.

Singapore moves faster than Saxon and makes larger conceptial leaps. Saxon moves in baby steps. My children thrive with the baby steps and often readily understand the new concept without being formally introduced. When we were using Singapore, however, the large leaps in concepts often drove my dc to tears. The leap was too far for them to follow. Also, there is very little (for us) review and drill. Everytime I use Singapore, I keep wishing for pages and pages of more review. There is not enough for my dc to internalize the concepts. Now, a friend of mine uses Singapore with great success. Saxon would bore her children to tears. Singapore is a wonderful program and your son may thrive using it. :001_smile:

 

TIA, I really appreciate ANY input, as this decision is totally stressing me out right now. I just starting feeling really comfortable with Saxon and DD loves it, but DS is accelorated in math and I am afriad he may need something different; less repetiontion, fast moving....but I don't want to sacrifice the other parts of Saxon that I value as a result of my switch- YKWIM?

 

:D

[langfam]

With some of my dc, we used Saxon and Singapore Challenge Word Problems (one level down). It was difficult to find a happy balance because we did every Saxon problem set.

With my youngest who's now in 3rd grade. I have him doing Horizons 3 together with Singapore U.S. edition level 2. This has worked really well and is not as difficult to coordinate as I eliminate some of the drills in Horizons. This method gives me the benefit of 2 different programs.