CW order for Homer--workbooks really necessary?

[Alana in Canada]

I thought would get the Core book and read up on things and then decide whether I should get the student workbook--but shipping is OUTRAGEOUS ($19.00 US for ground) so it would be best to get everything at once.

 

However, I bought Aesop Core, the student workbook and the IG. Could have easily done without the IG.

 

The student workbook is fine: but the major drawback to having it is that I feel somewhat constrained by it.

 

Everything is so carefully and painstakingly laid out in wonderfully well paced incremental steps that I am afraid to "play" with it--in case I mess it up. It is much much easier to go with it as written--BUT I really need to speed things up for my 11 year old and so I have to shake things up a bit--so I have to tear down the structure in the workbook. That's a hassle. It would have been better for me to create my own for us. I feel perfectly capable of doing that.

 

However--I don't know if I'll want/need the structure in Homer.

 

I do tend to want the structure a program supplies.

 

So, I guess I'm asking this: If I'm going to STOP getting the mfr's workbooks --is this a BAD place to start?

 

As well, the models are readily available, so I don't need to buy them. I will NT be doing Harvey's grammar, but continuing with Rod and Staff. I have a vague notion I'd like t include out R&S concepts in our analyses.

 

Anyway, has anyone bought the workbooks and regretted it?If so, why? On the other hand, do you regret NOT having them?

 

Sorry this is so rambling: it's been a long day.

Thanks.

[PeterPan]

I bought Homer a while back, so I've been pouring over it and pondering the things you mentioned. Yes, you want the IG, because it has the answers to the diagramming. If you're not going to do the diagramming and parsing, feel free to skip it. Core? Well I'm a big picture learner, and I really like having the student workbook to look at while I read through the core. It (the core) makes a LOT more sense when you can then rifle through the student book and see what it's talking about and how it's actually implemented. And I must be the odd bird, because so far the Core book actually makes sense to me in the order it's written. What you can't tell, not owning Diogenes, is what is essential and carried on into the later levels and what can be skipped. And no, I wouldn't try to implement it without the student workbook. Or I'll put that another way. Now that I have the student workbook and have been reading through it, I see where I can implement those skills across the curriculum, in all sorts of writing assignments. It's one of those things where the progression is totally obvious, once you see it.

 

Have you considered Older Beginners?

[Alana in Canada]

Thanks, OHE.

 

Older beginners is for 7th and 8th graders, as far as I understand it--and no one here is anywhere near that advnced. (Not even myself on a day like today.)

 

I've been watching your threads actually--and it is what has jogged me into looking into it again.

 

I appreciate your response--I'm a big picture gal, too, and I had a feeling the workbook would probably be necessary--if not for actual use--but to understand the thing. As for the IG and diagramming and parsing--drat. I do want to do that--and I'll most definitely need the answer key! Thanks for letting me know.

[Patricia in WA]

I am in agreement with Elizabeth!

 

You don't need the workbooks but they help make the picture clearer. I actually stopped using the WB as is in B. Mainly it is a guide but we do things a little differently here. Some levels dd needs more hand holding than others so that is what we do.

 

For Homer A, I would not have dreamed of touching a thing the first time around, but that was until I got the hang of it. My son (2nd time for me going through this program) is doing A without a workbook. I use my dd's old WB as a guide.

 

So long story short, get the WB's. :D

 

HTHs,

[Peela]

If there is any way you can borrow someone else's workbooks just to look at and get an idea of how they are laid out- that might help you make a decision.

I couldn't have done it without the workbooks- and with the workbooks, I skipped a lot, including the diagramming- the IG is relally only useful for the diagramming answers but no where is there any support for doing that level of diagramming in the Homer program itself. However IF I had seen the workbooks themselves AND felt inclined over our summer break to design my own program around it, that would have been ideal.

I think the program is, in retrospect, rather more complicated than it needs to be. We no longer use it, but I do think it will produce good writers.

[Alana in Canada]

Thanks, everyone. I will get one copy of the WB, then, instead of two--(one for each child) and look at it as a tool to help me figure out the program.

 

That's a really useful perspective on the need for the WB, by the way. Frees me up to use it as I see fit. Thanks.

 

I appreciate the input.

[PeterPan]

Well I'll go out on a limb, not having seen OB, and say I think some 6th graders could do it just fine. As Peela said, the concepts in Homer A are NOT hard, and CW tends to make it seem more complicated than it is. The models get longer in the second half of the book, but the concepts are not hard. I'd seriously consider OB for a capable 6th grader, but that's just me. If kids are doing Diogenes in 7th just fine, that means they can complete Homer by 6th just fine. That means you could do Homer A in 5th or wait and do Homer OB in 6th. At least that's what I think. See, we did so much in WT2 that parallels what Homer A covers, that really the only thing interesting in A to me is the summarizing skills, which I think are very nicely laid out. So if that's the case, then we could have waited a while, done more non-fiction writing, then moved on to Homer OB. At least that was my realization. So while I haven't seen it, I'm wondering if Homer OB would be a good fit for a capable 6th grader.

[H.S. Burrow]

Well I'll go out on a limb, not having seen OB, and say I think some 6th graders could do it just fine. As Peela said, the concepts in Homer A are NOT hard, and CW tends to make it seem more complicated than it is. The models get longer in the second half of the book, but the concepts are not hard. I'd seriously consider OB for a capable 6th grader, but that's just me. If kids are doing Diogenes in 7th just fine, that means they can complete Homer by 6th just fine. That means you could do Homer A in 5th or wait and do Homer OB in 6th. At least that's what I think. See, we did so much in WT2 that parallels what Homer A covers, that really the only thing interesting in A to me is the summarizing skills, which I think are very nicely laid out. So if that's the case, then we could have waited a while, done more non-fiction writing, then moved on to Homer OB. At least that was my realization. So while I haven't seen it, I'm wondering if Homer OB would be a good fit for a capable 6th grader.

 

 

Because of the cost involved, I will be using the Older Beginner program with my 8th grader - as a 1 year (or less) course - and with my 5th grader - as a 2 year course.

 

I just ordered the Aesop Core and OB Instructor's guide - now I'm wondering if I should have ordered the Student Workbook also.:confused: We use R&S for grammar, so I don't need any help with diagramming sentences. Is that really all that's in the Instructor's guides?

[Melissa in CA]

:lurk5: Gathering info in lurk-mode. :)

[Beth in SW WA]

Well I'll go out on a limb, not having seen OB, and say I think some 6th graders could do it just fine.

 

... I'm wondering if Homer OB would be a good fit for a capable 6th grader.

 

My dd 6th is starting Homer OB this week actually. I would not consider her "capable" in terms of writing. The verdict is still out on how she will do w/ OB. I'm hopeful. So far she loves Harvey's. We meet Kathy Weitz tomorrow in our first cyber-lesson. I'm so glad Kathy is holding our hands!!

 

Either way, buy the workbooks. I'm a big-pic gal also. I want it all in my hot little hands.

 

To be continued...:)

[siloam]

Well I'll go out on a limb, not having seen OB, and say I think some 6th graders could do it just fine. As Peela said, the concepts in Homer A are NOT hard, and CW tends to make it seem more complicated than it is. The models get longer in the second half of the book, but the concepts are not hard. I'd seriously consider OB for a capable 6th grader, but that's just me. If kids are doing Diogenes in 7th just fine, that means they can complete Homer by 6th just fine. That means you could do Homer A in 5th or wait and do Homer OB in 6th. At least that's what I think. See, we did so much in WT2 that parallels what Homer A covers, that really the only thing interesting in A to me is the summarizing skills, which I think are very nicely laid out. So if that's the case, then we could have waited a while, done more non-fiction writing, then moved on to Homer OB. At least that was my realization. So while I haven't seen it, I'm wondering if Homer OB would be a good fit for a capable 6th grader.

 

 

I would agree with this in what I have seen so far. Now I am only about 1/3 of the way through reading the core book of Homer and we are just finishing Aesop B.

 

My dd hands down has more problems with the length of the models than she does applying the concepts they work on-other than grammar. But that was due to following a Ruth Beechick model of no grammar in the early years. As soon as we bought JAG and got up to speed on grammar studies things were fine. The length of the models still has her groaning. They also in Homer designate some skills (grammar related) as being for older students, so you can skip those. If CW has younger kids skipping them in Homer they obviously must bring the skills to play later on, so you wouldn't be missing anything.

 

Heather

 

[Alana in Canada]

I am sorry to say that I would not, in any way, call my son an "adequate writer." That sounds harsh. Perhaps I should say his talent for brevity eclipses all else.

 

All I know is that Aesop A is moving much much too slowly for us.