I still have post-Covid cough/bronchitis

[Ginevra]

8 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Exactly. @Ginevra will do well to respect the virus, rebuild what has been depleted, and resume activity slowly. The stupid accursed virus is known to deplete a number of things, including zinc, b1, and biotin. If you were on antibiotics (and maybe steroids?) you depleted some other bonus things including your good bugs and collagen. 

How do your lungs feel when you breathe? For me, when I get xyz and have been that sick, just resuming deep BREATHING is work. There are all kinds of intricate muscles that surround your ribs to help you breathe deeply and with control. Try working on breathing and see if your energy stays stable. Then add walk. Then add light resistence. As long as your heart rate stays stable and your energy is solid, you're fine. 

I usually have to increase my zinc by *triple* for several months after covid. I'm still taking b1 from my last round and have only decreased my zinc slightly. 

Be very cautious and RESPECT THE VIRUS. 

My lungs feel normal with breathing now, but I do know what you mean; I had a hard time just breathing at first. 

[PeterPan]

21 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

My lungs feel normal with breathing now, but I do know what you mean; I had a hard time just breathing at first. 

I have surprising lung capacity I guess because my peak flow on a peak flow meter, when I'm completely healthy, is about double what the charts say it would be typically for my age/height. I also like to sing and weight lift, both of which use breath. So for me, I'm looking for ALL my breath back and to be able breathe that deeply without fatigue. 

Stairs for me are another litmus test because they're a brief, convenient way to get your heart up and see what happens. 

Personally, I wouldn't exercise per se while you still have a cough. That's just me and I'm not a doctor. I would walk, rebuild, do stairs, begin weights, do core, etc., all to tolerance. Then when the cough is gone, then go as crazy as feels good. But I've been contagious when I have that type of cough, so I'm extra careful. 

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, kbutton said:

Long Covid hangs on too, but it’s not a virus,

I'm not sure what you're saying about me. Just on the other thread someone ( @KSera maybe?) posted a new study showing that in fact the covid virus hangs on a LONG TIME, sometimes multiple years, and that they are working on antivirals to treat this. I was having a good chuckle because on this board a couple years ago people were saying studies with super brief use of some antivirals showed the virals were worthless, crap, whatever whatever, for covid, and I pointed out that the studies weren't using the antiviral for the LENGHT OF TIME that the covid specializing docs were using them.

I do not say one med is all mighty effective, but I also don't buy the politicizing of medicine. Logic has gone out the window. 

Me, I just do what works. I do routines that work and get back to my life. 

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, kbutton said:

Antibiotic resistance is a real concern and problem.

Since you are very interested in my medical care, I will expand here a bit. They put me on antibiotics for 30 days because I let the cough (covid, pneumonia, etc.) go on three weeks while traveling, which left me horribly, horribly sick. I literally came off a ship in a wheelchair, too weak hardly to walk. It was appropriate care. Now I get treatment more quickly and am done with the antibiotics much more quickly. 

So I go back to my main point: RESPECT THE DISEASE. That's it. Talk to the doctor, talk again, talk again, demand care, effective care, get a 2nd opinion, whatever it takes. I respect the disease and that it causes a lot of problems. I don't find the political answers (how quickly we can return to work, how it's transmitted, etc. etc.) to be completely accurate in any respect. I've gotten covid at outdoor events and transmitted covid to others in my household well past the "return to work" time period when all I had left was a minor pesky cough. I do not find anything we've been told from the powers that be to be forthright or completely accurate. They might work for a population or fit averages of data, but that doesn't mean they are precisely reliable for all situations.

Respect the disease enough to keep looking for all the treatments necessary to get well. Maybe I just have bad genes, because for me it takes a lot of things (meds, supplements, etc.), definitely more than just time. 

Edited July 6 by PeterPan

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I'm not sure what you're saying about me. Just on the other thread someone ( @KSera maybe?) posted a new study showing that in fact the covid virus hangs on a LONG TIME, sometimes multiple years, and that they are working on antivirals to treat this. I was having a good chuckle because on this board a couple years ago people were saying studies with super brief use of some antivirals showed the virals were worthless, crap, whatever whatever, for covid, and I pointed out that the studies weren't using the antiviral for the LENGHT OF TIME that the covid specializing docs were using them.

I do not say one med is all mighty effective, but I also don't buy the politicizing of medicine. Logic has gone out the window. 

Me, I just do what works. I do routines that work and get back to my life. 

You quoted a typo. I meant to say long Covid is not a bacteria. You said that antibiotic use for a virus is counterintuitive (though I don’t know if that’s the word you used) but effective for you.

I have no idea why you’re saying stuff about politics and medicine and antivirals. I didn’t bring up politics.

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I literally came off a ship in a wheelchair, too weak hardly to walk. It was appropriate care.

I’m sure it was the first time.

My relative had “appropriate care” of antibiotics when a viral infection turned into a secondary infection over and over again. Then they started giving my relative antibiotics earlier in the process, and it led to a biofilm. You literally sound on the same path. That’s all. It was bad enough to treat in the sinuses; it would be insane for get rid of in lungs.

I hope you don’t end up with a biofilm or a resistant strain of bacteria in your lungs or elsewhere from antibiotic overuse.

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Respect the disease enough to keep looking for all the treatments necessary to get well.

Hence why I suggested that if you have so much damage and lingering stuff in your nooks and crannies (I’m not making fun; I don’t know where your Covid is lingering and can only assume it’s your lungs with all the talking about breathing), you could expand your portfolio of treatment into more niche options for airway clearance, which can help if that part of things is impaired. When you cough up junk, it includes viral and bacterial junk. Airway clearance helps get junk out. Most people don’t even know that’s an option, and the spirit of the thread seems to be pointing to options.

[KSera]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

 I was having a good chuckle because on this board a couple years ago people were saying studies with super brief use of some antivirals showed the virals were worthless, crap, whatever whatever, for covid, and I pointed out that the studies weren't using the antiviral for the LENGHT OF TIME that the covid specializing docs were using them.

Those  discussions were regarding ivermectin, which has been tested every which way from Sunday and unfortunately found not to work. You can’t imagine how much I wish that something as simple as ivermectin would work.  Same goes for millions of millions of patients as well as doctors. The studies that made it look like it might work were fabricated. Literally and provably, the data was made up. By doctors associated  with FLCC. So there’s nothing to chuckle about there. Ivermectin is not going to solve this if the viral persistence theory turns out to have merit. 
 

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

So I go back to my main point: RESPECT THE DISEASE. That's it. Talk to the doctor, talk again, talk again, demand care, effective care, get a 2nd opinion, whatever it takes. I respect the disease and that it causes a lot of problems. I don't find the political answers (how quickly we can return to work, how it's transmitted, etc. etc.) to be completely accurate in any respect. I've gotten covid at outdoor events and transmitted covid to others in my household well past the "return to work" time period when all I had left was a minor pesky cough. I do not find anything we've been told from the powers that be to be forthright or completely accurate.

I agree with this. Covid is not a mild illness even when the acute phase feels like it. It’s a horrible disease that damages and ages peoples internal organs including their brains, even with mild infections. You’re correct that it’s contagious for longer than what is being indicated, but everyone wants to just live as if we’re not living with an ongoing pandemic of a serious illness. It’s bad for the economy, not to mention a real drag if everyone respects the disease and protects themselves and their families in the way that is warranted. I promise it’s a much bigger drag to find yourself suddenly disabled, unable to earn a living or engage in any of the activities you once enjoyed, possibly permanently.

[Halftime Hope]

On 6/30/2024 at 8:22 AM, EKS said:

My father's doctor prescribed prednisone and a z pack both times he had covid, and something about that combination fixed him right up.  I suspect it was the prednisone, but what do I know?

Yep, a lot of the docs doing early treatment are using abx + a steroid if indicated. A family member needed a short course of methylprednisolone (3 days and then a second 3 days, since it affects his blood sugars), and then was he switched over to a nebulizer with budesonide. His cough during omicron started on about day 10 and even with the above treatment, we had to be proactive with chest percussion for about another week.

One of the people I know treating covid patients treats most patients with steroids for a few days, because it drastically reduces the incidence of nearly every form of inflammatory aftermath.

 

Edited July 7 by Halftime Hope

[Halftime Hope]

On 7/6/2024 at 7:58 PM, KSera said:

Those  discussions were regarding ivermectin, which has been tested every which way from Sunday and unfortunately found not to work. You can’t imagine how much I wish that something as simple as ivermectin would work.  Same goes for millions of millions of patients as well as doctors. The studies that made it look like it might work were fabricated. Literally and provably, the data was made up. By doctors associated  with FLCC. So there’s nothing to chuckle about there. Ivermectin is not going to solve this if the viral persistence theory turns out to have merit.

For anyone who wants to go read on their own, the FLCCC doctors did NOT start the ivermectin "train". Other docs around the world did. And there is a lot of information for anyone who wants to know precisely how badly the highly-anticipated RCTs were bungled, twisted, manipulated...pick your own descriptor. Oftentimes the published data doesn't even match the write-ups. So just saying: do you own reading. (You can message me for information if you're interested.)

As for me and mine, we swear by ivermectin for both prophylaxis and treatment. We will never be without it. In my extended family, those of us who have used it have been fine, with no covid aftermath. One branch of our family has a healthcare provider who treats with hydroxychloroquine. They too have been largely OK.

The ones who did not get early treatment, in spite of being very well-connected to healthcare, have not done so well. 

 

Edited July 13 by Halftime Hope

[PeterPan]

5 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

prophylaxis and treatment.

I apparently have a pathetic immune system, and maybe you have some deeper knowledge to figure out why, sigh. For me, that particular med *pushes off* the virus but never completely eradicates it. So I can get sick in spite of the med, but I can at least push off the full blown illness till later, when it's not as problematic. However eventually, even if I keep taking it the virus wins. It's a huge help, but for me it's not this POW, Batman, super marvel, super avengers, superman kinda win. 

The other thing to look at is the studies on when it can be administered and affect antibody development. I've found, just in general, that if I take it after being symptomatic a good number of days, I have a pretty good immune system response and seem to be resistant to the variants when I get around it again. When I take it sooner, I seem to be more susceptible. We've been traveling all over and have so much crazy exposure with a wide variety of variants that it may be there's just no winning. But again, if it were whizbang kapow, it wouldn't be an issue. It's that it helps, saves my butt, keeps it from getting much much worse, but isn't actually enough to keep me from getting sick entirely or to kick it entirely.

For the record, my doctor also gave me paxlovid and I had a poor response, even with a 2nd round, and still had a rebound. If we were talking about which I thought was better or had a better experience, I actually liked the paxlovid pretty well. But I didn't like the rebound, and I've never had a rebound on the other maligned med. Of course the doctors give you access long enough you don't rebound. But even when I've had less/shorter access, all that happened was sort of long covid symptoms, not an actual rebound. With the paxlovid I had a full blown, clinically tested rebound. Ugh.

Maybe at this point they have some studies on what distinguishes the people who rebound?

 

[KSera]

5 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

And there is a lot of information for anyone who wants to know precisely how badly the highly-anticipated RCT were bungled, twisted, manipulated...pick your own descriptor. Oftentimes the published data doesn't even match the write-ups.

You’re aware it’s the ones that showed a positive effect for ivermectin that have been the most problematic? With at least one of those being just outright falsified? They have continued studying outcomes with ivermectin and have continued to find it doesn’t help. Very unfortunately.  This isn’t a case of just a few studies, it has been studied again and again and again,  and I don’t know how to write off all the data clearly showing it doesn’t improve outcomes. The fact that many people who took it recovered doesn’t mean anything at all. Most people will recover from Covid.

5 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

As for me and mine, we swear by ivermectin for both prophylaxis and treatment.

I’m glad you’ve all been doing well, it just worries me a lot when people think that they’re going to avoid serious problems from covid by taking ivermectin. Too many people have died or been seriously ill or developed disabling post viral illness because they thought ivermectin would be enough to keep them from getting sick or from getting sicker when they do get sick. Clearly that’s not the case.

I haven’t seen enough data yet to say whether it might help improve long covid symptoms yet. It hasn’t shown any ability to prevent it in studies of that. But I see no reason not to gather data on whether it improves long covid symptoms.  Some long Covid patients turn to it in desperation and the groups like FLCCC that make money from prescribing it have have pivoted to pushing it for this purpose since there aren’t as many people still wanting it for acute Covid. It would be good for long Covid patients to have sufficient data to know whether or not it’s worth trying, rather than adding it to the kitchen sink of supplements they take because someone said it might help. Though honestly, with as little money as is being devoted to this issue in comparison to the size of the problem, I can’t say I’d like to see very much money sent in this direction rather than focused on things that appear more promising.