The Covid Vax and Myocarditis

[Ginevra]

23 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Type one, and yeah I agree but I guess if anything that triggers the immune system can cause it maybe a vaccine can? I don’t think it’s logical but at this point I’m feeling so worn down. DH has completely changed on this and now claims he was forced to have the vaccine and it almost seems to be majority view down here that any and every health problem was due to the vaccine

Well that’s discouraging. 
 

I have encountered other people who took the vaccine but have now Re-written their story as they were “forced” to take the vaccine. 

[Melissa in Australia]

Heaps of people in my state were forced. Nobody was allowed to work at all, in any type of work. It was definately forced. 

 

One of the hospitals I was in over half of the nurses resigned when they were forced to take a 3rd dose. One of the nurses told me that her balance never came good. She said it was a nasty vax with many long term side effects

[Ausmumof3]

9 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Heaps of people in my state were forced. Nobody was allowed to work at all, in any type of work. It was definately forced. 

 

One of the hospitals I was in over half of the nurses resigned when they were forced to take a 3rd dose. One of the nurses told me that her balance never came good. She said it was a nasty vax with many long term side effects

Yeah DH needed his for work, but at the time he was happy to have access to it. He wanted it. It’s true that they did everything short of making it compulsory. 

[scholastica]

From an NYT article today about Covid and heart attack:

There is a small risk of developing myocarditis (inflammation of the heart muscle) in the weeks after getting an mRNA Covid vaccine made by Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna. However, the risk of myocarditis after having Covid is much higher. A study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported that males ages 12 to 29 — who have the greatest risk of vaccine complications — were four to eight times more likely to develop myocarditis following a Covid infection than in the three weeks after receiving a dose of vaccine. For males 30 and older, the risk of myocarditis was 28 times higher from Covid than from the vaccine.

 

“While it’s important to understand that this vaccine-related event is real,” Dr. Glassberg said, “the risk to your heart is much greater from Covid than from vaccine.”

[Penelope]

It’s a real thing, but it’s rare. It is still being studied.

Vaccine myocarditis is generally more mild than viral myocarditis, but some patients are having a prolonged recovery, and some are left with scarring visible on MRI. A scar may cause no problems down the road, or it could lead to arrhythmias later. It will take years of followup to have a better idea of what any longer-term consequences might be. Even if extremely mild, there are considerations of probable hospitalization, possible medications, specialist follow ups and testing ($$) and restrictions of physical activity for at least several months, which is not insignificant. 

 

I think the real question now for young people at risk for this rare vaccine complication, is not about vaccination in 2021 and comparing risks of Covid vs. risks of vaccination from two years ago. There were some studies that showed risk-benefit ratio in young men was still better with vaccination, but others showed that the vaccine risk was higher than the risk of heart problems from Covid for the group at highest risk of the vaccine myocarditis, On balance, it seemed like the initial two shots were a good bet, but for a 12-29 yo male who had already had Covid, it still seemed a difficult decision to me. 
 

But that isn’t as relevant for most of us in 2023.  It’s whether or not getting a booster this fall, and maybe every fall, provides a benefit that is greater than any potential risks. We just don’t have convincing data on that right now. Boosters do little for preventing infection, and any potential reductions of long Covid are unknown. Deciding whether or not a young healthy person should get a booster seems like a guessing game, and the answer you choose depends on what one is most concerned about. Most western countries aren’t following the US in their booster recommendations, and aren’t recommending that all non-elderly, healthy people get boosters, anyway, so there are clearly significant differences of opinion on this among reasonable, knowledgeable people who are looking at the same data. 

 

 

 

 

[-----]

nm

Edited September 1 by kathyl

[KSera]

On 9/5/2023 at 3:07 PM, kathyl said:

The other cases of Covid that I know of personally are me and 5 of our kids.  All 3 dd's had the Covid shot as mandated by their jobs.  2 ds's did not have the shot and neither did I. 

When one ds had Covid, he had flown to visit dd and her dh and apparently caught it on the plane despite wearing a mask.  They all 3 had it together - dd and her dh both vaccinated, ds not - and all their symptoms were exactly the same and recovery times exactly the same.  

When our other 2 (vac) dd's and other (unvac) ds caught Covid their symptoms were exactly the same and recovery times the same, too.

All dc were living in different locations, mostly different states.  And all in great shape, and often run races and marathons.

When I caught Covid (at the gym), ds's were here and they 'talked me through it', along with dd's via phone calls, telling me exactly what to expect, etc.  It went pretty much like they had said, except I had one episode where my heart felt weird when I was out weeding flower beds.  I just took a couple of Bayer regular strength aspirin, rested, and took it easy for a few weeks and was fine.  Kinda like the cardiologist had told daughter-in-law to do ...

Oh, and our 94yo neighbor was living alone and had never had Covid.  A couple other neighbors and we would help her if she needed something because she didn't drive anymore.  And her grandson would fly in to take care of things every few months.  Someone decided she should get the Covid shot so she did.  A few months afterwards, she began to go downhill rather quickly, mostly mentally.  Her grandson and the neighbor who helped her the most said they thought "she got much worse after having the shot".  Within a few months the grandson moved her to live near him because she couldn't function alone anymore.

FWIW ...

I honestly do not know what people intend by posts like this. That's super great and fortunate that in your family circle, unvaccinated people came through covid okay. It doesn't change the fact that tens of thousands of extra lives (likely over 100,000) have been lost in the US alone to covid due to being unvaccinated. Those are all people who didn't do just fine getting covid without being vaccinated but that would have lived had they had the vaccine. As of the end of 2022, unvaccinated adults were 97 times more likely to die from Covid than vaccinated adults.

Quote

As of Dec. 4, the weekly COVID-19 death rate among unvaccinated adults was 9.74 per 100,000 population, and the rate was 0.1 per 100,000 population for people 18 and older who were fully vaccinated with a booster dose.

This significant protection extends even down to younger people:

Quote

For the month of March [2022], “unvaccinated people 12 years and older had 17 times the rate of COVID-associated deaths, compared to people vaccinated with a primary series and a booster dose,” says Commissioned Corps of the U.S. Public Health Service commander Heather Scobie, deputy team lead for surveillance and analytics at the CDC’s Epidemiology Task Force.* “Unvaccinated people had eight times the rate of death as compared to people who only had a primary series,” suggesting that boosters increase the level of protection.

Given how much protection the vaccine gives from death, and the tragically huge number of people who could have been alive had they been vaccinated but are instead dead (and so can't give their stories about how they had covid unvaccinated and were "just fine.") because people scared them off the vaccine, or just made them think it wasn't necessary, it's really hard for me when people give these anecdotes about how meaningless the vaccine is. It doesn't matter what anecdotes people have about being just fine when they got covid, the data is very, very clear that the vaccine has saved countless lives and lack of vaccine has cost thousands of them.

Edited September 7, 2023 by KSera
typo

[-----]

nm

Edited September 1 by kathyl

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, kathyl said:

No need to get snarky.

I was responding to the OP with personal experience which I believe I made clear.  At no time did I ever say the vac was "meaningless".  And I don't think anyone else here did either. 

 

I don't mean any of what I wrote as snarky. I'm glad you don't think the vaccine is meaningless. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who have lost their lives because of other people who have called the vaccine harmful or meaningless.

[-----]

nm

Edited September 1 by kathyl