Modern Speller/ Dictation Day by Day

[AnneGG]

If you have used any of the Kate Van Wagenen spellers from the 1900’s, how did it go? Did it help? Waste of time?
 

I like the poetry in Dictation Day by Day but I am probably better off with Modern Speller. If you purchased a physical copy were you pleased with the quality? Which one did you buy? 
 

Am I nuts in thinking this is very similar to Spelling You See?  
 

https://archive.org/details/modernspeller02wagegoog/page/n2/mode/2up

[forty-two]

I used dictation day by day with my middle.  We'd done a level of spelling you see beforehand, and used the sys marking system with it - idk if they are intrinsically very similar, but they do combine well (love the sys marking system - used it with every LA thing we did in upper elementary). I just printed it out, sized to fit the page - it made the print a lot bigger, which was good for my dd.  Idk if it was a huge help, but my dd liked it and it easy to do and I do think we saw some modest benefits.  I have no idea the actual instructions, but we did it like we did the prepared dictation sections of WWE (with added sys markings) - dd would mark the passage and copy the passage in the morning, then write it from dictation in the afternoon.

[HomeAgain]

We used Dictation Day By Day for....4 years.  It was a help.  It worked on 2 skills with ds: writing his thoughts down in complete sentences and proper spelling of frequently used words. He really enjoyed the work, too, and it was something that only took 5 minutes out of our day.

We gave it up at the beginning of logic stage work and went with a more rules-oriented spelling program.  While DBD was fine for elementary years, it was more beneficial for him later to spend time focused on deconstructing/constructing a wider vocabulary and apply rules to unknown words.  We had started out with All About Spelling before DBD but he wasn't ready to apply the work.  Waiting and finding a program after he had a solid base and was able to analyze more was worth it to us rather than slogging through all the rules back in elementary.

[HomeAgain]

Adding- I believe our physical copies came from Lost Classics.  The quality was fine.  You could tell it was copied pages but they were clear and filled the page.  Our experience with Paper Sloyd as a physical copy was not the same nice experience.

[LauraClark]

We use dictation day by day (oldest is 10) and it has worked really well. Several years ago we started out using the traditional spelling approach of memorizing the words, but it would not stick. Dictation day by day really does stick. We have not purchased a hard copy-I just printed it from online.

Eta how we use it: we do the dictation. I correct misspellings and have them fix it. They write a cursive sentence using as many of the missed words as they can. I have the 10 year old type the sentences. I give them the new words for tomorrow to copy.  On day 5 I take the review words and make silly sentences using as many review words as I can.

Edited July 31, 2022 by LauraClark

[AnneGG]

12 minutes ago, LauraClark said:

We use dictation day by day (oldest is 10) and it has worked really well. Several years ago we started out using the traditional spelling approach of memorizing the words, but it would not stick. Dictation day by day really does stick. We have not purchased a hard copy-I just printed it from online.

Eta how we use it: we do the dictation. I correct misspellings and have them fix it. They write a cursive sentence using as many of the missed words as they can. I have the 10 year old type the sentences. I give them the new words for tomorrow to copy.  On day 5 I take the review words and make silly sentences using as many review words as I can.

Great ideas! Thank you! 

[AnneGG]

55 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

We used Dictation Day By Day for....4 years.  It was a help.  It worked on 2 skills with ds: writing his thoughts down in complete sentences and proper spelling of frequently used words. He really enjoyed the work, too, and it was something that only took 5 minutes out of our day.

We gave it up at the beginning of logic stage work and went with a more rules-oriented spelling program.  While DBD was fine for elementary years, it was more beneficial for him later to spend time focused on deconstructing/constructing a wider vocabulary and apply rules to unknown words.  We had started out with All About Spelling before DBD but he wasn't ready to apply the work.  Waiting and finding a program after he had a solid base and was able to analyze more was worth it to us rather than slogging through all the rules back in elementary.

Thank you for the insight! Should I be perplexed that my child working around a 4th/5th grade level is stretching out sounds/ clapping syllables instead of just jotting down a word like “neighbor?” He will write it phonetically, nayber. 

[HomeAgain]

1 minute ago, AnneGG said:

Thank you for the insight! Should I be perplexed that my child working around a 4th/5th grade level is stretching out sounds/ clapping syllables instead of just jotting down a word like “neighbor?” He will write it phonetically, nayber. 

Nope.  Spelling is a skill that needs to be developed. Thinking about the syllables and stretching sounds out to hear them is a really good base skill to help a kid learn to encode.

There are sound charts here that I printed out and made a difference in my own kid's confidence level. I think it's the Individual Code Charts but this computer hates me opening pdfs so you might want to browse.  Anyway, hearing the sound in his head and then being able to look at a chart to remember all the ways to spell that sound was helpful to him while doing more independent work.  For example

/a/: a(end of syllable), a___e, ai, ay, ey, eigh/eig, ea, ei

That's a LOT of ways to build a sound!  It's just a quick visual cue so he doesn't rely on the 1-2 ways he thinks of off the top of his head.

 

You didn't say how old your kid was, and that's going to make a difference more than the level he's working at.  I had one kid working at a 4th-5th grade level at age 6 and he wasn't going to apply spelling rules beyond a spelling lesson.  I had one who struggled a bit more and stagnated at 4th-5th through about 7th, and it was important for him to learn word parts (roots, suffixes, prefixes) as chunks so he could fill in the gaps as needed.  But he was old enough where he could look at words like puzzles and develop the necessary skills in his own way.

[AnneGG]

28 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Nope.  Spelling is a skill that needs to be developed. Thinking about the syllables and stretching sounds out to hear them is a really good base skill to help a kid learn to encode.

Thank you! I was beginning to work myself into fully concerned mode. 

There are sound charts here that I printed out and made a difference in my own kid's confidence level. I think it's the Individual Code Charts but this computer hates me opening pdfs so you might want to browse.  Anyway, hearing the sound in his head and then being able to look at a chart to remember all the ways to spell that sound was helpful to him while doing more independent work.  For example

/a/: a(end of syllable), a___e, ai, ay, ey, eigh/eig, ea, ei

I will check this out once I can get to my laptop! 

That's a LOT of ways to build a sound!  It's just a quick visual cue so he doesn't rely on the 1-2 ways he thinks of off the top of his head.

 

You didn't say how old your kid was, and that's going to make a difference more than the level he's working at.  I had one kid working at a 4th-5th grade level at age 6 and he wasn't going to apply spelling rules beyond a spelling lesson.  I had one who struggled a bit more and stagnated at 4th-5th through about 7th, and it was important for him to learn word parts (roots, suffixes, prefixes) as chunks so he could fill in the gaps as needed.  But he was old enough where he could look at words like puzzles and develop the necessary skills in his own way.

He is 11 and in 6th grade.  But all of his LA materials are 4th grade, math he is in 5th. This is my DSS, he joined our HS last year. He is chugging along in academics but Holy Gaps Batman! 

 

[LauraClark]

Something else you could try (I mentioned this recently in a previous thread): typing improved my own spelling tremendously in high school. I type words in the air to remember how to spell them now. I haven't noticed a difference with ds10 (the only one to go through a typing program but already a decent speller) but others in that thread said there really is something to the muscle memory with typing. 

[HomeAgain]

@AnneGG you may want to add in a vocabulary study for your middle schooler. We did Word Roots by Critical Thinking Co but there are several out there.

I don't know if I would do Dictation DBD with a 6th grader as a starting point, but I might suggest Reading & Spelling Through Literature.  I had my youngest start with this in 5th and we did it very low key: I say the word, he breaks it into syllables, I tell him how to write/mark the word.  By book 2 he knew what most of the markings would be and by book 3 he was flying.  We would study 10 words a day, no matter how long the list was, and circle back to words he struggled with in his writing.

[AnneGG]

4 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

@AnneGG you may want to add in a vocabulary study for your middle schooler. We did Word Roots by Critical Thinking Co but there are several out there.

I don't know if I would do Dictation DBD with a 6th grader as a starting point, but I might suggest Reading & Spelling Through Literature.  I had my youngest start with this in 5th and we did it very low key: I say the word, he breaks it into syllables, I tell him how to write/mark the word.  By book 2 he knew what most of the markings would be and by book 3 he was flying.  We would study 10 words a day, no matter how long the list was, and circle back to words he struggled with in his writing.

Thank you! I will check these out.  I think you are right about this. Maybe I will DBD with the 7 and 8 year old and have the 11 sit in from time to time but give him his own program. That would probably help his confidence too. TY!