What Should Grade 7 math look like?

[4atHome]

Is this usually time for Algebra?  Is Prealgebra always necessary?  I'm ready missing the fact that I cannot physically peruse books at our homeschool book fair this year  (again). 

Dd does well with math.  She has done Abeka through grade 6 (currently halfway through) and also BA in summer.  She does not want to do BA full time, so I think AOPS is likely not a good fit though I haven't looked at any of their materials besides BA.  I was not really drawn to MM.  I have planned to move to Saxon, but am not sure if we should do 8/7 or go to algebra or prealgebra.

 I am a big believer in spiral style learning.

Edited February 24, 2021 by 4atHome

[Lori D.]

That's an age/stage where students are ALL OVER the place in the core subject areas (math and writing, especially), so asking what other people are doing for 7th grade is not really going to help YOU with your 7th grader's specific needs and abilities.  😉 However, in answer to your question, most commonly in public schools: 7th grade = Pre-Algebra / 8th grade = Algebra 1 -- OR -- 7th grade = "7th grade math" / 8th grade = Pre-Algebra. (And yes, there are many many exceptions upwards and downwards.)

Since you already know you're going to be using Saxon, it's just a matter of placing your student at the best level for her. Having your student take the Saxon placement tests will help you do that. I'd recommend doing both the middle grades AND Algebra 1 placement tests to have the best feel for if Saxon 8/7, or Algebra 1/2, or Algebra 1 will be the best fit for your student at this stage.

Several things to bear in mind any time you switch math programs:
1. There will be a new scope and sequence, so you may have a few gaps AND repeat/overlaps that you have to adjust for.
2. Plan on it taking a month or so for you AND your student to adjust to the new perspective and style of presentation with the switch.
3. If the student is "on the bubble" between one math level and the next, consider going with the lower level and go through it at an accelerated rate (doing a small handful of selected problems per lesson/several lessons in one sitting), which gives the student a lot of feeling of success, fills in any "gaps" in sequence, and is a good review while learning the new style of presentation. This also allows you to speed through areas that the student is strong with, and to slow down as needed with areas that the student may need more practice with to get solid.

BEST of luck as you move forward with math and a new program. Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Lori D.

[4atHome]

2 hours ago, Lori D. said:

That's an age/stage where students are ALL OVER the place in the core subject areas (math and writing, especially), so asking what other people are doing for 7th grade is not really going to help YOUR with your 7th grader's specific needs and abilities.  😉 However, in answer to your question, most commonly in public schools: 7th grade = Pre-Algebra / 8th grade = Algebra 1. (And yes, there are many many exceptions upwards and downwards.)

Since you already know you're going to be using Saxon, it's just a matter of placing your student at the best level for her. Having your student take the Saxon placement tests will help you do that. I'd recommend doing both the middle grades AND Algebra 1 placement tests to have the best feel for if Saxon 8/7, or Algebra 1/2, or Algebra 1 will be the best fit for your student at this stage.

Several things to bear in mind any time you switch math programs:
1. There will be a new scope and sequence, so you may have a few gaps AND repeat/overlaps that you have to adjust for.
2. Plan on it taking a month or so for you AND your student to adjust to the new perspective and style of presentation with the switch.
3. If the student is "on the bubble" between one math level and the next, consider going with the lower level and go through it at an accelerated rate (doing a small handful of selected problems per lesson/several lessons in one sitting), which gives the student a lot of feeling of success, fills in any "gaps" in sequence, and is a good review while learning the new style of presentation. This also allows you to speed through areas that the student is strong with, and to slow down as needed with areas that the student may need more practice with to get solid.

BEST of luck as you move forward with math and a new program. Warmest regards, Lori D.

Thank you for the placement test!

How do you have such a wealth of information?  I have your reading lists open in another tab😄  Much appreciated.  Thank you.

[Lori D.]

30 minutes ago, 4atHome said:

Thank you for the placement test!

How do you have such a wealth of information?  I have your reading lists open in another tab😄  Much appreciated.  Thank you.

lol.  You are most welcome.

We homeschooled virtually all the way through (started with grades 1 & 2, and graduated both DSs from homeschooling), and I have continued to be very active on these boards. Plus I continue to do a lot of research so as to be able to mentor homeschoolers both here and in real life in my large homeschool group. I also give 1-2 informational sessions on various homeschooling topics to our local homeschooling community each year, so I have to keep up on knowing about "homeschool stuff". 😉 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Lori D.

[kristin0713]

5 hours ago, 4atHome said:

I'm ready missing the fact that I cannot physically peruse books at our homeschool book fair this year  (again). 

Me, too.  It was truly my most favorite thing to do all year!!  

My mathy 7th grader is doing Pre-Algebra this year with Unlock Math. 

My math-averse older child used Christian Light which covers Pre-Algebra over 7th and 8th grade and she is now successfully doing Algebra 1 in 9th. 

[8filltheheart]

All of my kids have gone from Horizons 6 (which is similar to Abeka) to MUS's algebra. I use it as pre-alg. Then they move into Foerster's for their official alg 1 course.

[fourisenough]

On 2/7/2021 at 7:41 PM, kristin0713 said:

Me, too.  It was truly my most favorite thing to do all year!!  

My mathy 7th grader is doing Pre-Algebra this year with Unlock Math. 

My math-averse older child used Christian Light which covers Pre-Algebra over 7th and 8th grade and she is now successfully doing Algebra 1 in 9th. 

Sorry for the hijack, OP, but I’m wondering if @kristin0713 could give me a comparison of Unlock Math’s Pre-Alg and CLE 7 & 8?

I have a 6th grader finishing CLE 6 math and I’m debating between continuing on with CLE or possibly trying Unlock. How would you compare the level of difficulty between the two? (I’m generally familiar with Unlock because older DD used their Geometry, but have no experience with lower levels).

[kristin0713]

27 minutes ago, fourisenough said:

Sorry for the hijack, OP, but I’m wondering if @kristin0713 could give me a comparison of Unlock Math’s Pre-Alg and CLE 7 & 8?

I have a 6th grader finishing CLE 6 math and I’m debating between continuing on with CLE or possibly trying Unlock. How would you compare the level of difficulty between the two? (I’m generally familiar with Unlock because older DD used their Geometry, but have no experience with lower levels).

I think the main thing to consider is whether the student needs Pre-A spread out over two years with a consistent review of arithmetic.  My DD would have really struggled with the pace of Unlock Math. The new info is presented in very small increments and there is review everyday, so in that sense, it is similar to CLE.  However, there are a lot less review problems than CLE and it does not review all of the topics that CLE does.  I think that the reason my DD is doing so well in Algebra 1 is because there was such a thorough review everyday during 7th and 8th grade which covered long division, fractions, decimals, and percents.  She's so confident in all of that now!  My DS did not need that sort of review and, in fact, it would have been torture for him.  I think CLE is great for a student who can wait to do Algebra 1 in 8th grade and who would benefit from consistent review.  Unlock Math has been great for my mathy kid who is amazing at mental math and just intuitively understands how numbers work. 

[fourisenough]

34 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

I think the main thing to consider is whether the student needs Pre-A spread out over two years with a consistent review of arithmetic.  My DD would have really struggled with the pace of Unlock Math. The new info is presented in very small increments and there is review everyday, so in that sense, it is similar to CLE.  However, there are a lot less review problems than CLE and it does not review all of the topics that CLE does.  I think that the reason my DD is doing so well in Algebra 1 is because there was such a thorough review everyday during 7th and 8th grade which covered long division, fractions, decimals, and percents.  She's so confident in all of that now!  My DS did not need that sort of review and, in fact, it would have been torture for him.  I think CLE is great for a student who can wait to do Algebra 1 in 8th grade and who would benefit from consistent review.  Unlock Math has been great for my mathy kid who is amazing at mental math and just intuitively understands how numbers work. 

Sorry, one last question: what Algebra 1 program is this DD using?

[kristin0713]

2 hours ago, fourisenough said:

Sorry, one last question: what Algebra 1 program is this DD using?

She's using Christian Light, the new textbook version. 

[CoriAnne]

Hi! I’m considering these two programs. Will your DD continue with CLE’s (non Sunrise) Geometry & Algebra 2. My DD really loves CLE, but I’m torn because of this. 

[4atHome]

@df3121

My kids are fairly mathy and I do want to push them into higher maths. I don't recall what I did in middle school, but in high school I took calc 1-3 at our local uni, and it definitely freed up some time for me when I got into uni, as those prereqs were done.  I know I had algebra and geometry, but I don't know about "prealgebra".  I think I'll order Saxon 8/7 and take a look.  I am wondering if I should use Saxon just because I remember using it in high school, or should I look for something better.  I wasn't drawn to MUS for little kids, but is it better for algebra?  I haven't seen Foerster or Jacob's or Dolciani.  Maybe I should be searching for sometime else?  Or maybe Saxon is easy to implement and good enough...  ugh

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, 4atHome said:

My kids are fairly mathy and I do want to push them into higher maths...
... I am wondering if I should use Saxon just because I remember using it in high school, or should I look for something better. 
... I wasn't drawn to MUS for little kids, but is it better for algebra? 
... I haven't seen Foerster or Jacob's or Dolciani.  Maybe I should be searching for sometime else?... 

What is your student's *learning style*? And, what works for you for teaching style of materials? If she has been doing well with a traditional style of math instruction with Abeka, and you are not drawn to Math Mammoth or other non-traditional style program -- then stick with what works. 😉 

MUS gets lighter for the high school levels. It is great for highly visual learners, and for showing the "why" behind the algorithms, but it is lighter than most math programs at the high school level. 

Saxon is a solid traditional program, and has levels all the way up through Calculus, so it would carry you a long ways. I would just keep an eye on if your student is actually learning the math, or is memorizing formulas and algorithms to use the one that "matches" the wording of the word problems to "plug and chug". 
 

If interested in checking out other traditional math programs here are links -- note that some authors do not have books all the way through the high school sequence:

Derek Owens = online classes, live or self-paced
Pre-Algebra through Calculus

Ron Larson = traditional textbooks; online support
Pre-Algebra through Calculus

Chalkdust = DVD lesson-based; more rigorous than some
Pre-Algebra through Calculus

Teaching Textbooks = DVD lesson-based; similar to Saxon but a bit lighter
Pre-Algebra through Pre-Calculus

Paul Foerester = traditional textbooks, more rigorous than some, with Engineering-style problem solving 
supplement: Math Without Borders DVD tutorials
Algebra 1; Algebra 2; Pre-Calculus/Trig

Margaret Lial = traditional textbooks
supplement: It looks like Pearson has picked these up and has a video library available for an access fee
Pre-Algebra through Pre-Calculus

Harold Jacobs = mastery; incremental; with review; parts-to-whole; real-life examples
Algebra 1; Geometry (we used the 2nd edition which is more straight forward with more proofs than the more recent 3rd edition)
supplement: Ask Dr. Callahan DVDs -- these are being phased out, and the Jacobs books are being reprinted with a heavy Christian perspective overlay, with Dr. Callahan video supports; I was able to use the OLDER editions (non-over-laid) and NO Dr. Callahan DVDs with no problems -- I am average to a little above average in math abilities

Mary Dolciani = traditional textbooks; rigorous
Algebra 1 and Algebra 2


Because some of these math authors do not include Geometry, these are the 3 most frequent textbooks homeschoolers go to:
- Ray Jurgensen Geometry
- Holt Geometry (Holt, Rinehart, and Winston publishers)
- Harold Jacobs Geometry

Edited February 11, 2021 by Lori D.

[8filltheheart]

2 hours ago, 4atHome said:

@df3121

My kids are fairly mathy and I do want to push them into higher maths. I don't recall what I did in middle school, but in high school I took calc 1-3 at our local uni, and it definitely freed up some time for me when I got into uni, as those prereqs were done.  I know I had algebra and geometry, but I don't know about "prealgebra".  I think I'll order Saxon 8/7 and take a look.  I am wondering if I should use Saxon just because I remember using it in high school, or should I look for something better.  I wasn't drawn to MUS for little kids, but is it better for algebra?  I haven't seen Foerster or Jacob's or Dolciani.  Maybe I should be searching for sometime else?  Or maybe Saxon is easy to implement and good enough...  ugh

I have math oriented children. One of my kids is a chemical engineer; one is a third-year graduate student at Berkeley studying physics; and another is majoring in atmospheric sciences. Some of my kids have taken algebra as early as 10 years old. Some have  taken it in 8th grade. Just depends on the child.

I have used MUS's algebra simply as a pre-algebra program. Its presentation is friendly and accessible for younger children. It is a good introduction to algebra. All of them have moved on the Foresters algebra. Foresters is a solid algebra program that will prepare them for any major in college.

My ds who is in grad school was easily able to jump into AoPS intermediate alg after Foerster's alg2 and he finished his high school sequence w iij th AoPS before DEing at our local 4 yr U for the rest of his math during high school.

Another option I would personally consider is DOs. 2 of my kids took his precal course and 1 us currently doing his physics course. His courses are also solid, so his pre-alg course would prepare for any algebra course.

I personally would not use Saxon for strong math kids.

Edited February 11, 2021 by 8filltheheart

[4atHome]

2 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

Another option I would personally consider is DOs.

What is this?

[8filltheheart]

Derekowens.com

[Not_a_Number]

On 2/7/2021 at 2:34 PM, 4atHome said:

Is this usually time for Algebra?  Is Prealgebra always necessary?  I'm ready missing the fact that I cannot physically peruse books at our homeschool book fair this year  (again). 

I would say that prealgebra is not always necessary, no. I think people say "prealgebra" to basically mean "anything we do before we're ready to jump into algebra." 

So... do you think your kiddo is ready for algebra? How is she with variables? How is she with properties of numbers like the distributive property? 

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, df3121 said:

Are you referring to the Masterbooks reprints that have already been done and they're selling now? Or are they redoing them again? Are they removing the original comics/humor etc...? Because that is exactly why I wanted to use them in the first place. We really don't want/need moralizing in our math. 

Yes, the Masterbook reprints is what I was referring to. I don't know exactly what they did (if anything) when Masterbooks took over -- although there is a new cover design with "In the Beginning" on it.

You can still find the original edition used; it just takes a bit of effort to piece together the hardback student textbook, soft back teacher book, and answer/solutions booklet components.

Yes! Because of the comics and because of the real life examples in every lesson, DS#1, who adored both Jacobs Algebra and Jacobs Geometry 2nd ed., asked me to keep these for him. 😄 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Lori D.