Right Start math balance trouble

[gck21]

This may be too specific of a question but has anyone else had a child who struggled to understand the math balance? We have been using Right Start math. There are specific instructions in the guide to let kids struggle with this. They repeatedly say how important it is for them to discover how it works on their own...otherwise I would probably just skip it and come back later.

She was able to figure out that if you have a weight on the 7 on one side, you have to balance it with a weight on the 7 on the other side. It took a lot of work but I think she mostly understands if you have a weight on 7 on one side, you can balance it with weights on 6 and 1 on the other side. This kind of partitioning gets shakier the bigger the number, so probably her understanding isn't that strong (but she did same thing easily with beads and a part-whole circle). But I am really lost helping her to understand the doubles (for example, she is supposed to put 2 weights on a 6 on one side and figure out how to balance that with 10 and 2 on the other side). She is supposed to use the abacus to help her (putting 6 on the first wire, 6 on the second and then seeing the group of 10+2), but I can tell by her guesses, she is lost. Today, instead of the abacus, I tried us each holding up 6 on our hands and then having our 2 fives hold hands to make the 10, plus 2 fingers left over. I think that helped, but she still did a lot of seeing a ten plus only one group of our leftover fingers (that's a bit confusing...but for example, she would say "11" to to the 6+6 problem because she saw our hands making a 10 but only added the 1 finger on her hand rather than both of our 1s. This was the same problem she was having with the abacus). And honestly I'm not sure my example helped her understand the math balance at all.

Any advice to help make this more concrete for her? Or help me understand the point of the math balance in kindergarten, so maybe I could introduce it another way? I think they are using the balance to simply illustrate what an equation is. But partitioning and adding with the math balance...I wish I could tell how important this actually is.

[Not_a_Number]

I haven't used this, but I would also assume they are trying to teach her what an equation was. Would she be able to do this on paper or in some other format? Would she know that 6+6 and 10+2 are the same thing or no? 

Personally, I do try to work on equations where there's a sum on both sides for young kids (just for flexibility with equations), but I'm not sure whether I'd care about the specific tool used. But I don't use RightStart. 

I might just let her figure this out however she wants, with or without the abacus. Does she have manipulatives she can use to figure out 6+6? What if you asked her to balance 6+6 is equal to 10 plus what and let her just play around, without giving her concrete instructions about HOW to go about it? 

[Xahm]

I don't have this curriculum, so I don't know if this is practical, but can it fit 12 ones on one side? Then, when 12 ones barely fit (I hope) you could suggest she replace some of them with a bigger number that fits better. Maybe make it a challenge to see how many different ways she can make it balance and discuss which is the easiest for quickly identifying the amount.

[ckpeck]

Background: I use right start with a child who understands math easily but isn't profoundly gifted. We are on level D currently. I have a master's degree in math, so it's something I understand and enjoy.

I love almost everything about the way Right Start teaches math concepts. The way they teach place value and number sense is great. I love they way they approach fractions. The spiral is just right - enough time on a topic to practice, but just when my child starts to get frustrated we move onto another topic.

All that to say, I loathe the math balance. I understand what they are getting at, but it doesn't click in my brain the way the other manipulatives do. I especially didn't like how it was used in level A. 

The good news is that if you stick with Right Start, you will revisit the math balance in the next level, and the next, and the next. It is another way of looking at what you're doing now. Like everyone has said, it's a representation of equations. If it's not clicking right now, I would demonstrate/directly teach the concepts in those lessons and move on. It's an intro and lots of kids start Right Start in level B anyway. Trust the spiral.

The fact that your daughter can do the same concept with beads in a part whole circle set shows that she has some understanding of the concept the balance is getting at. It is a little concerning that she can't see the ten in 6+6 on the abacus or your hands. I would point out the color changes that help identify groups of 5 or 10 on the abacus. What you're doing with hands/fingers is great. Keep working on that concept of "two fives" - it will keep coming up and be a huge focus in level B.

[countrymum]

I use RightStart with 2 children. 1 is in level E and 1 in C (I think this is my least favorite level;). I would say both are average. Mostly they have no trouble, but sometimes we get stuck (hello check numbers in the beginning of E;) I have found that e-mailing RightStart is very helpful when I have had trouble. They get right back to you and have good ideas.

I agree with the above post about not worring too much aboit the balance now. I also agree that you want her to see that the 2 fives make 10. It comes into play over and over, but it will be reintroduced in B, so a somewhat shaky understanding is probably ok.

Sometimes when my kids have trouble with something, I get out my ol blue plastic base 10 blocks. They aren't a RightStart manipulative, but they seem easier for my kids to understand at first than the abacus, balance, or paper cards. Can she see that 7 and 7 makes 10 and 2? Does she understand that 10 is a very special bundle from the tally sticks and other examples. I would say that place value is the mose important concept in A. My kids knew it was illegal to bundle at any other number than 10! They would sometimes tease me by adding tally sticks to or taking them away from our bundles....we never left them that way though...that would be illegal or CHEATING;) (If the kids wonder why 10, I told them it was truly rather arbitrary,  but it was the rules of our number system. Other number systems could "bundle" (binary perhaps is an example) at a different number, but WE don't!)

[Porridge]

Disclaimer— I only used RS B, and heavily adapted it.

I’d suggest just setting it aside and revisiting the concept later. DD is very “mathy” and accelerated. However she really struggled with the long division algorithm. We ended up  setting it aside and revisiting it later (maybe half a year? A year?). When we came back to it, the concept clicked immediately. My takeaway was that some concepts just take time- their brains need to mature and make other types of connections; eventually they will be ready. 
 

I agree that place value is the most important concept at that stage. 
 

if you want a different way visualize equations, you could look at Balance Math by Critical Thinking Company. In my Opinion, it’s an easier and more logical way to introduce equations. The whole lever - physics aspect of the balance arm can be a little much for a young child - it’s asking them not only to understand equations but also to understand intuitively the lever arm concept. (Because it’s not only the net amount of weight on each side that matters, but also the distance from the fulcrum —That’s a lot to grasp even for some adults!) Balance math removes the fulcrum/lever aspect. 

[PeterPan]

On 11/24/2020 at 7:59 PM, gck21 said:

She was able to figure out that if you have a weight on the 7 on one side, you have to balance it with a weight on the 7 on the other side.

How old is this dc? I used RightStart with my dd and liked it a lot. However with my ds who has dyscalculia (math disability), I use Ronit Bird. Honestly, it sounds like more could be going on or that you're thinking more is going on. Check out Ronit Bird and see if it gets the steps small enough that she can finally get there. She has a 3 ebook sequences (Dots, Rods, Multiplication) that work through the concepts that are in her print, much more $$ book. The print books are great, but those $10 ebooks are an awesome starting point. Your dd would start with her Dots ebook. 

So start there, see what you think. My ds has a gifted IQ but ASD and SLDs (learning disabilities). For him, those basic concepts of quantity (which is what she's having problems with) are the very definition of his math disability. It's not that RightStart is bad, but the steps are really big. Ronit Bird will break it down a lot more and bring it in reach.

Also, I think that even Dr. Cotter (of RS) would allow that the "struggle" ought to be getting somewhere. Sometimes the student just needs more. So if it's not getting there, it's ok to move on to a more appropriate tool.

Btw, I had a thread with the RS group years ago where we talked about why the balance works. It's actually very complex, and it makes sense why a very bright person could get very confused. And from an instructional standpoint, having dealt with someone with a pretty significant SLD (actually all three, reading, writing, and math) I don't think the balance is the best learning tool for a struggler. I think you'll find the Ronit Bird analysis and build up o each skill more effective. The balance requires too many skills at once for them to grasp it. Ronit Bird will help you break that down into single component steps. You can keep it around to play with as you want, but there are better ways to get her over these humps.

If your dc is very young (like say 3), then that would be a caveat. But if we're talking a 5 or 6 year old, I'm guessing you're going to need to move on. http://www.ronitbird.com/ebooks/#ebook1

 

[PeterPan]

On 11/24/2020 at 7:59 PM, gck21 said:

Today, instead of the abacus, I tried us each holding up 6 on our hands and then having our 2 fives hold hands to make the 10, plus 2 fingers left over. I think that helped, but she still did a lot of seeing a ten plus only one group of our leftover fingers (that's a bit confusing...but for example, she would say "11" to to the 6+6 problem because she saw our hands making a 10 but only added the 1 finger on her hand rather than both of our 1s.

How is she doing with basic numeracy concepts in real life? How does she count? Does she recognize quantities when shown a field of objects? Like if you show her 3 M&Ms or 5 cheerios, does she recognize those quantities? Does she understand 12 in real life? How has she done with toys and books marketed for her age that use early math skills? If she wants to count out 15 donuts while playing store in a play kitchen, can she?

[medawyn]

The math balance was definitely not intuitive to my mathy kid. Balancing 7 and 7 was no problem, but he was super frustrated by the need to find a different way to balance two sixes.  It was not a tool that worked for him at all.

We did lots of work with Cuisenaire rods and unit blocks to help "balance" equations and to see that numbers could be broken up in different ways.  Since RightStart uses so many ways to illustrate the same concepts, I would just keep an eye on the concept itself and not worry that a specific manipulative wasn't connecting.

[gck21]

Thanks everyone for the great ideas. It is reassuring to know that we aren't the only ones who found this manipulative tricky. Thank you for all the alternate manipulative ideas and the books. On Fridays, we play math games instead of doing our regular schedule. I think she would like that Ronit Bird book, thank you for the suggestion.

My daughter is 5, so we are not doing this program early. Overall RightStart A has been the perfect pace for her, and she hasn't had any major issues. This is the first time that she has been totally thrown by something. I think it was the combo of a new manipulative (that isn't intuitive for her), a new way of using the abacus, and a somewhat new math idea (the math balance was the introduction to doubles over 5+5). I am going to start next week reviewing the doubles with just the abacus and tiles and see if taking the balance out of the equation makes it understandable for her. I don't want to miss big red flags if she really doesn't see that numbers can be broken up in different ways.

[PeterPan]

Just for when you're ready, Ronit Bird has a free card games ebook and the Family Math books are great too. Definitely keep playing games!