S/O from "Church response to Covid" Thread

[TravelingChris]

11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

*I* am specifically talking about those marginalized groups that have been here that long. It doesn't apply to you and I wouldn't expect you to understand that experience or the history without study. Study is in order here. I'm not making up our history WRT the GI Bill, redlining, Social Security WRT domestic workers, and discrimination in farm loans. I seriously don't have time to address all of the misinformation this contains but you can google these issues to start.

I have actually studied that history.   And know about lots of injustices to AA and it hurts me to know how AA have been treated and in some cases, continue to be treated.. But the point is that there are more than just AA people who are or have been discriminated against.  Whether it be Appalachians, Latinos, Asians, disabled, gays, etc, etc,  there are lots of people who have and still feel the sting of discrimination and racism, sexism, ableism, etc. The KKK and Nazi types don;'t actually consider people like my family to be 'white' even though we probably have lighter skin than most of them.  That is because we are Slavic.     

I am generally for the underdog in most situations.  I have actually lived in areas which were discriminated against with poorer services, etc.  Because it doesn't matter if you are AA or not, if you live in that area, you get the same crappy treatment from the city.  I am all for helping disadvantaged people.  I just sometimes feel that they way we go about delivering various services is just not the right way to do it.

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I have actually studied that history.   And know about lots of injustices to AA and it hurts me to know how AA have been treated and in some cases, continue to be treated.. But the point is that there are more than just AA people who are or have been discriminated against.  Whether it be Appalachians, Latinos, Asians, disabled, gays, etc, etc,  there are lots of people who have and still feel the sting of discrimination and racism, sexism, ableism, etc. The KKK and Nazi types don;'t actually consider people like my family to be 'white' even though we probably have lighter skin than most of them.  That is because we are Slavic.     

I am generally for the underdog in most situations.  I have actually lived in areas which were discriminated against with poorer services, etc.  Because it doesn't matter if you are AA or not, if you live in that area, you get the same crappy treatment from the city.  I am all for helping disadvantaged people.  I just sometimes feel that they way we go about delivering various services is just not the right way to do it.

 

Of course there are. Assuming, however, that the cumulative effects on immigrant populations is the same when some immigrant populations have been compensated for past abuses and atrocities while others have not is not at all fair. We're talking about systems of abuse that were only formally ended 50 years ago and, in practice, never did end. I would be happy to have a discussion about how to resolve these lingering issues. What I have no patience for is the denial of their existence or of our ability to make any changes that would measurably improve things.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Sneezyone

[TravelingChris]

1 hour ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

 

 

I just want to say just this one single issue/argument/throwing-up-of-hands about school funding is so complicated, how can we possibly solve it is, in and of itself, a perfect example of the legacy of inequality.

Why is school funding so complicated? Why is it inequitable? Why is it so hard, feeling next to impossible, to figure out how to fix it? The answer is the lingering effects of past policies. Cultural ideology and intentional action got us here, and only a change in cultural ideology followed by intentional action will get us out.   

Our school funding is nuts here.  We have 95% of our income tax, most of our sales tax and most of our property tax going to schools.  What are they doing with the money?  I have never been in a state with as many new schools being built- not because of rising population because I would expect that--- no, to replace old schools.  Not in CA, NM, OH, IL, VA, or FL have I ever seen so much school resources going to building new buildings.  The other issue we have here is a very high amount of administrative staff compared to teachers.  

[PerfectFifth]

2 hours ago, Happymomof1 said:

How does that work???  Texas tried that with the Robin Hood plan, it has been a disaster and hasn't worked. Wealthy people will work to make sure their kids get the best schooling, best technology.  Heck, it is why I withdrew from our lousy public school and started homeschooling.  How do you make sure this happens practically.  Each district had equal amounts of money from the state. The wealthier districts just found loopholes or donors to provide more. I don't see how you avoid that.

I don't think individual schools should be allowed to raise money or request grants. My sister's public school in a wealthy neighborhood raised over $400K every year. How is that fair to the school down the street in a middle to low income area?

This was an elementary school!! Not even a high school!!

Edited July 28, 2020 by PerfectFifth

[TravelingChris]

28 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

I, for one, don't want or need an 'I'm sorry'. I, too, am action oriented. I want to see restorative justice in the form of criminal justice reform, environmental justice policies (like compensation in the form of long-term healthcare for those harmed by environmental hazards located in low-income/minority communities...see Flint Water, for ex., much like we do for black lung). I would like to see broadband expansion to low-income/rural communities. I would like to see infrastructure and physical plant improvements in schools which will draw people and investment back to underserved communities (with carveouts to preserve rental housing availability). I would like to see many, many things. 

This is one area my city did do the right thing.  We had Google fiber installed and the first areas that got it was a predominately black area.  Google fiber also installed fiber in the rural areas near a plant they bought too which was a huge improvement.  Facebook has been donating money to our school district to get wifi hotspots for the kids who do not have internet and are in our school district which is virtual for the first 9 weeks at least.  (I think longer as my dd who works as a civilian contracter with the US Army here has just been told she should not expect to come back to work in the office until December)

[TravelingChris]

10 hours ago, square_25 said:

As someone who also came from the Soviet Union, I absolutely do get benefits from being white. People don't treat me like a threat. People aren't surprised that I'm smart. The way I talk (even though I have a bit of an accent) marks me as someone who probably has enough money. 

Furthermore, there's an issue of cultural capital. My grandmother taught me to read and do math before I went to school. I have two grandparents who are high school teachers, in fact. My dad is a university professor. My first stepdad is a university professor. 

I am not coming at this from the same perspective as someone who is brought up by potentially uneducated parents in a difficult community who is struggling to make ends meet. I also get the benefit of the doubt the way those kids do not. 

So do I now that I live in the deep South--- but they are all because of racist people who decide to favor white people- as in individuals.  I also got two instances of racism against me by blacks when I was younger ( the first instance was so scary-  I was in a bus with a black bus driver and everyone else was black- I was going to my orthodontist at Georgetown University Dental School- the bus driver refused to stop the bus for me even though I rang the bell and it was the stop.  I asked him to stop and he kept ignoring me as we went by two stops.  A very kind elderly lady rang the bell and he stopped.  SHe didn\'t get off, she was just helping me.    I had a lot of anti- my nationality growing up and I am fairly sure I am now having that happen again in the South too.    And furthermore, whatever benefits the few racists I have met who decided to favor me (totally unwanted by the way and it really repels me), are far, far, exceeded by the ableists who decided to discriminate against me.

As to your second point, there are plenty of educated black people not struggling to make ends meet and there are plenty of white, Latino, Asian, etc parents who are not well educated, living in difficult communities who are struggling to make ends meet.  My dh grew up in such a home. 

Everybody is basically privileged in some ways and disadvantaged in other ways.  Yes, I got intelligence from my parents but I didn;t get athletic abilities, artistic abilities, and also got a whole slew of autoimmune diseases.  I do not feel guilty in the least bit about my privilege because that is completely useless.  What I do do is put my money where my beliefs are---so I fund music education that goes to schools where there are no music programs, scholarships to Space Camp, books for kids who wouldn't get them otherwise, etc, etc, etc.  But I do not decide that kid A is disadvantaged because he is black and kid B is privileged because he is white.  I think making such assumptions is racist.  You have to look at individual circumstances.   

[PerfectFifth]

On 7/28/2020 at 5:28 AM, square_25 said:

I don’t think there’s any point feeling guilty about one’s privileges, because it’s futile. However, it’s worthwhile being aware of them and being grateful for them. 

I think is extremely important. Just recognizing that I have had privilege based on my race has helped me see some of the systemic discrimination I didn't recognize before.  

I have two friends. Friend A is white and her husband is black. She has 3 very LARGE sons. 6'6" and UP. It's crazy how tall they are and they are very dark skinned.  When they are walking down the street in the city ,she said she can't even count how many times she has been stopped by white men and asked if she "needs help" and "everything ok?"

I had this conversation with her and another friend who ALSO has 2 sons that are huge!!!! Not quite as tall but definitely over 6ft and the mom is TINY so they totally dwarf her. She/hubby/kids are all white. She told us she has never had the experience of Friend 1. 

Its not that Friend A's kids are scary looking and B's kids are sweet as homemade apple pie. Actually Friend B said her kids are more apt to be scowling. 

It's the perception that a white woman walking down the street with 3 large black men must be in trouble. That's the privilege I've never had to experience.