Am I missing something with EPGY??

[Home'scool]

I have been looking into accelerating my daughter's math sequence (she is a freshman and wants to major in engineering) and looked into the "gifted and talented" programs of EPGY and CTY for math.

 

EPGY offers an honors geometry and a pre-calc class. Both run about 3 quarters long, and would end up costing about $800+ each.

 

When I called to get more information about applying I asked about their requirements to get into the program. After all, it is supposed to be "gifted and talented" and that is why you pay so much. Plus, she is 14 and is supposed to have a PSAT score. I said I only had a CAT score for my daughter (I lied, she has a PSAT score but I was getting the feeling they really didn't have strict standards and I wanted to see if I was correct), and the woman said "oh, you'll be fine then." She never even asked what her score was! Just told me my daughter would be allowed to take the class.

 

In looking at the class I realized that they use the videos from Thinkwell. Videos that I can buy myself for about 1/8 the cost.

 

My question is: how valuable is the title "gifted and talented" and EPGY? CTY's math courses are run the same way.

 

I assume that college admission officers would know that these classes are a snap to get into -it took me one 5 minute phone call to realize that -and that the curriculum is the exact same one I can buy off the street, so why pay the big bucks to go through them?

 

Am I missing something? Other than a "tutor" to call if she has a question, which I have in my husband (an engineer), are these programs worth it? Wouldn't her doing Thinkwell on her own, or staying with Saxon and working through that on her own be more impressive than some canned curriculum that I paid big bucks for? Do these classes really impress the college admissions people?

[Sandra in NC]

For the EPGY Geometry course, the tutor was excellent and invaluable. My son couldn't have done it without the tutor!

 

I've looked at college admission requirements for homeschoolers and some specifically mention EPGY courses (positive connotation). The Franklin Olin College of Engineering, for instance, has EPGY highlighted in blue.

 

http://www.olin.edu/admission/home_school.asp

 

My 16 yo son was accepted to the NC School of Science and Math. I believe having EPGY courses on his transcript helped. The English courses are expensive but worthwhile -- although it might be easy to get into EPGY, successfully completing the coursework is another matter. From what I've seen in Geometry and English, it's college-level work.

[MaryM]

Well, we had to submit scores when we got into EPGY but that was all! We did the Honors Precalculus with Trig (at an early age) and it was a challenging course. Our son did benefit from some of the EPGY CD presentations much more so than from the text. The exams are killers! Tutor was non-existent. And it was expensive, as you point out.

 

After that we discovered Thinkwell, on our own, and ds has LOVED math with Dr. Burger. From our experience, you need to supplement the Thinkwell course with review problems from other books but you can't beat it for teaching.

 

I am not so sure that colleges know what has transpired at EPGY and JHU because their reputations from years past still stick even if they are no longer justified. If money isn't an issue(!), then try one course and maybe consider doing it faster than the three quarters. That will save some bucks and you can determine if it is useful for your dc.

 

Mary

[Home'scool]

My 16 yo son was accepted to the NC School of Science and Math. I believe having EPGY courses on his transcript helped. The English courses are expensive but worthwhile -- although it might be easy to get into EPGY, successfully completing the coursework is another matter. From what I've seen in Geometry and English, it's college-level work.

 

My question really only referred to the math portion of EPGY. Any class that has an actual teacher that provides feedback on writing, etc., will always benefit from having the best possible program.

 

As far as geometry goes, though, does doing it through EPGY help complete the coursework more than doing it yourself? Especially if you have access to a free tutor (hubby :001_smile:!)

 

I am interested in EPGY and CTY for courses that are actually taught be teachers, but paying for a software program, a plug-and-chug, just to have their name attached it it ...... not so much:tongue_smilie:

[Sharon in MD]

My ds is a senior this year and he tested on the SAT back in 8th grade for admission to CTY. He also had to take a test at a prometrics testing center called the Spatial Test Battery. At that time he had to have certain scores met in both tests to qualify. I don't see any option for other tests such as the CAT listed on their web site, so I don't think you can just register for the courses without participating in the talent search and earning a qualifying score.

 

I have not used CTY for math courses for the very reasons you cited about Thinkwell. I looked into it and the only advantage I could find was the tutor, which I didn't think was worth the cash. I also personally think that Foersters math courses are more challenging than Thinkwell. We have used both and find Foerster to be more demanding and less rote.

 

We did use CTY for Computer Science and were pleased with these courses. In that instance the tutor was absolutely necessary and very beneficial. I feel it was a good experience for ds. Also, we have had great support from his cs tutor in writing some letters of recommendation fro ds....we feel that it was helpful in applications to some special summer programs that he has attended. We also requested letters from her for a couple of college honors programs that he has applied to. I figure it can't hurt.

 

Basically, I would use CTY for things that I can't do on my own.

 

HTH

Sharon

[Kareni]

I have no firsthand experience with EPGY; however, my thought would be to continue at home with your built in tutor while corroborating learning by outside means (SAT subject test in Math Level 2 after Precalculus; AP exam after Calculus or Statistics for example). If your daughter gets beyond that level or beyond your husband's ability to tutor, then pursue other options.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Home'scool]

Yeah, that's what I'm now thinking. She has her CAT score and her PSAT (she took it as practice - she is only a freshman) and both of those are strong, and we plan on having her do AP's in all the core subjects - she is already doing two AP courses now.

 

Thank for all the advice!

[Catherine]

My ds took algebra through CTY and our tutor was totally worthless. I complained about her after the course. However, I have a friend whose ds took 2 math classes through CTY and found the tutor invaluable. I'd encourage you to continue to pursue clearer answers ahead of time. Also, there is the "external validation" factor to consider.

[Tiramisu]

Dd13 is taking English classes through EPGY. They let her in with writing samples since I was waiting for test results. They never asked to see the test results.

 

I can only comments on one English course. It has been excellent and challenging. Her writing has improved in this short time, but I wonder if we would have been better off starting at a lower level. I think some of the emotional themes were a little beyond dd. Next semester, the entire semester focuses on Arthur Miller's Crucible. I would like dd to skip this, and if they are so flexible, I'm assuming we can. Perhaps dd will take another course next year.

 

Thank you for the comments on the math. I've been wondering if it's worth it.

 

Also, EPGY offers great need-based financial assistance. That has really brought the cost down considerably.

[moira]

You are not missing anything. My son has taken several classes with JHU and I could be more disappointed with the quality of their tutors. He took Science and Math classes. The classes are great but there is not need to pay JHU when you can get the classes (Thinkwell, Cyber ED, Destination Math, etc) all via homeschool buyers coop and save tons and tons of money. I was amazed at how inept and or absent the tutors were at JHU. The only thing I missed doing Cyber ED on my own were the midterm, final and research paper JHU required. However the tutor did a terrbile job grading. Marking wrong answers correct and not explaining why certain items were wrong--it was ridiculous really. I did appreciate that the midterm and final were not multiple choice. As for Thinkwell you will learn just as much without JHU-esp. as you have someone who can help if your student does get stuck. Thinkwell is fantastic but there is no need to pay JHU triple for it! Best of luck!

[Sandra in NC]

My question really only referred to the math portion of EPGY. Any class that has an actual teacher that provides feedback on writing' date=' etc., will always benefit from having the best possible program.

 

As far as geometry goes, though, does doing it through EPGY help complete the coursework more than doing it yourself? Especially if you have access to a free tutor (hubby :001_smile:!)

 

I am interested in EPGY and CTY for courses that are actually taught be teachers, but paying for a software program, a plug-and-chug, just to have their name attached it it ...... not so much:tongue_smilie:[/quote']

EPGY's Geometry course is very difficult. I think it was written by Stanford teachers - it's not a Thinkwell product.

 

When I signed my son up for Geometry last September, I thought he'd be done with the course by February. It took him until June! It's the most difficult course he's ever taken. Each homework assignment must be completed correctly before the student is allowed to take the final exam. My son sometimes submitted homework 3 times before it was deemed correct! As I said before, the tutors were excellent and my son met with them weekly in the Centra classroom to go over problems. He couldn't have done it without their help. (The tutors give only one small clue at a time, so you can't get your homework solved all at once by meeting with the tutor.)

 

EPGY Geometry was recommended to follow Alg. II. I think the reason is maturity...it's rigorous and requires persistence, patience, and commitment. I would only recommend it to very strong students -- a prior logic course would be helpful too.