Pre algebra questions/concerns

[BoyMom2]

I have been researching curriculum choices for my oldest son, and I "think" I have it narrowed down. However, there are several uncertainties I'm wrestling with that I would greatly appreciate input/feedback on.

DS is finishing CLE 6 this year. This is our second year homeschooling (he used CLE 5 last year), but was in a combination of public/private schools for the years prior. He tests above grade level in most regards, but he doesn't enjoy math (doesn't fight it, but it isn't something he likes either). CLE has seemed to work well and I think the review approach has been good for him coming into homeschool. In both years he's gotten A's with an occasional B thrown in there on quizzes and tests, but I can see that he doesn't have a solid foundation of the underlying groundwork of how numbers work and relate in order to manipulate them in relation to each other. He can follow the directions laid out and get correct answers, but this really plays out in knowing how to figure out approaching an 'out of the CLE box' word problem or real life math scenario. He knows what to do (in most cases) in each lesson, but the conceptual foundation to translate into other scenarios isn't as strong as I would like it to be. 

My thought was to possibly take the next two years (7th and 8th) for pre algebra, but supplement with other things during that time to really shore up the groundwork and the conceptual side of the house before moving into algebra I for his 9th grade year. Obviously CLE's program is set up for that with 700 & 800, but I've also been looking at Math Mammoth and from what I see online, I like her approach (maybe this would be good to help him with the conceptual aspect?). It would be a switch for DS from spiral to mastery, but I know MM has the review books that can be utilized as well. As far as being on or above grade level, where does MM fall? That's also just a one year curriculum though.

Option 1: Continue CLE for 700 and 800, but supplement. What to supplement with though? ...Keys to series? ...Math Mammoth subject reviews or grade reviews? ...Math Minutes? ...Simple Solutions Math? (These are titles I have seen tossed out in various places online) ...something else entirely?

Option 2: Use Math Mammoth 7 for a different approach as pre algebra and still supplement. Do it all in one year and see how algebra I in 8th grade would go? Or still take two years for pre algebra, doing MM7 and other supplements to shore up his underlying groundwork?

Option 3: I'm completely off base and need to go a different direction... 🤪

Once we're beyond pre algebra, I think I've narrowed down algebra I to either CLE (textbook format, as I think it would be good to get away from a workbook and have him actually write out answers separately), or Jacobs. From what I have seen, I like both of these and can't really decide. I also like what I read about Foersters, but since DS isn't all that mathy by nature, I thought it might be better to hold off on that curriculum until algebra II.

Thank you for reading my long ramblings! My head is swimming with this at the moment, so I thought input from others would help. Also, I have no real life experience with any of the items listed above except CLE.

[Syllieann]

I vote for math mammoth pre-algebra and take the time that is necessary, be that one year or two.  To finish in a year do 3 pages per day.  If that pace is too fast, drop down to two pages per day.  It's a really strong program and I'd say at the 5-7 levels it is a bit ahead compared to most US curricula.  I am looking at putting my son (finishing MM7 now) into Jacobs next year, and it looks like the first half of the book will be a lot of review.  I also have a daughter who will be starting CLE 5 soon (finishing 4 now) because she needs a spiral curriculum.  I don't think it is conceptually as strong as mm.  I add a problem solving supplement and substantial extra explanation for the algorithms.

[BoyMom2]

2 hours ago, Syllieann said:

I vote for math mammoth pre-algebra and take the time that is necessary, be that one year or two.  To finish in a year do 3 pages per day.  If that pace is too fast, drop down to two pages per day.  It's a really strong program and I'd say at the 5-7 levels it is a bit ahead compared to most US curricula.  I am looking at putting my son (finishing MM7 now) into Jacobs next year, and it looks like the first half of the book will be a lot of review.  I also have a daughter who will be starting CLE 5 soon (finishing 4 now) because she needs a spiral curriculum.  I don't think it is conceptually as strong as mm.  I add a problem solving supplement and substantial extra explanation for the algorithms.

 

Thank you so much for the input as well as the specific info on CLE and MM! Your insight into the correlation between MM7 and Jacobs for algebra is good to know as well. It's helpful to get insight from someone who actually has experience with these curriculum.

May I ask what you use as a problem solving supplement? As far as general supplements go, have you used or seen the "Key to" books IRL?

[Syllieann]

1 hour ago, BoyMom2 said:

 

Thank you so much for the input as well as the specific info on CLE and MM! Your insight into the correlation between MM7 and Jacobs for algebra is good to know as well. It's helpful to get insight from someone who actually has experience with these curriculum.

May I ask what you use as a problem solving supplement? As far as general supplements go, have you used or seen the "Key to" books IRL?

I'm glad that it's helpful!  For problem solving I use Fan Math Process Skills in Problem Solving, which has recently gone out of print.  I think there are still some available from exodus books.  I haven't used Key To, but it is popular on these boards so you will probably get a lot of input on those if you make a separate post about it.

[ByGrace3]

We have used both CLE and MM. The conceptualization of MM is unmatched. We only used CLE for one year and it was great for what we needed it for, but didn't compare to MM in teaching the concepts.

MM7 is excellent, but if it is too much, you could definitely go back through MM to cover whatever topics need more work and then jump back into MM7. My oldest only completed about 2/3 of MM 7 and was completely fine in Mr. D. Algebra. 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I wouldn't worry too much about how long pre-algebra takes.  It's ok if he gets it done in one year, but also ok if it takes 1.5 or 2 years.  You can't really "force" how quickly someone learns a concept, so I'd suggest not trying to plan too far ahead.

After that, I'm sure either program would be fine.  As a teacher, you need to choose the one you can teach best.   

[BoyMom2]

On 5/13/2020 at 12:53 PM, ByGrace3 said:

MM7 is excellent, but if it is too much, you could definitely go back through MM to cover whatever topics need more work and then jump back into MM7. My oldest only completed about 2/3 of MM 7 and was completely fine in Mr. D. Algebra. 

 

Good point! And since the digital format of MM can be purchased, reviewing some topics from MM6 would be easy to do. That's also great to hear that your son was well prepared for Algebra with 2/3 of MM7. Thank you!

 

On 5/13/2020 at 1:10 PM, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

I wouldn't worry too much about how long pre-algebra takes.  It's ok if he gets it done in one year, but also ok if it takes 1.5 or 2 years.  You can't really "force" how quickly someone learns a concept, so I'd suggest not trying to plan too far ahead.

After that, I'm sure either program would be fine.  As a teacher, you need to choose the one you can teach best.   

 

Thank you for the level-headed reasoning. You are right! And if he does surprise me and ends up being ready for Algebra I in 8th or part way through 8th, I'll then have more questions.... I'm not sure how to go about listing a course taken in Middle School for HS credit on a transcript. Eek! These are things I have not had to tackle yet.

 

[BusyMom5]

I wouldn't put a time frame on it, but I would be prepared to take 2 years to solidify if needed.  I find 6th, 7th, 8th grades to be full of hormones, and I dont try to push it!  My DD2 was not ready for the mental commitment to longer problems that Algebra requires until 9th grade.  We spent 7th doing Saxon 87, and choice MM units (FRACTIONS!!!!)  For 8th we did Saxon PreAl, MUS Algebra 1, and hands on explanations whenever I can.  Give that extra time for maturity and to let them get through the roughest part of puberty without the extra stress of a hard math.

[kbutton]

I LOVE Math Mammoth. We used the topical vs. a grade because we were switching earlier than 6th from a different program. (It's all the same topics as grade level, but it's presented in a different order). 

MM teaches bar modeling and has multi-step problems to solve. I wish that I had done MM with my older son, but I had heard it had too many problems per set (and samples seemed to suggest that). It might've been for the early levels for him, but I think it would've been a good program for him for 6th grade and maybe 7th.

My younger son is thriving with it. It's a great balance of concepts and solid procedures that give the "why" of math. It's not too many problems per set for him at this upper topical levels (we didn't get the lower topical levels).

We haven't transitioned to algebra yet. I have Dimensions Math for 7th and 8th, so we're going to try that. If that's not a good fit, we'll switch to a traditional Algebra I and see how it goes. 

[BoyMom2]

On 5/18/2020 at 8:13 PM, BusyMom5 said:

I wouldn't put a time frame on it, but I would be prepared to take 2 years to solidify if needed.  I find 6th, 7th, 8th grades to be full of hormones, and I dont try to push it!  My DD2 was not ready for the mental commitment to longer problems that Algebra requires until 9th grade.  We spent 7th doing Saxon 87, and choice MM units (FRACTIONS!!!!)

Yes, these middle school years definitely bring in a new dimension with the hormones! Did you use the topic series of MM to supplement, or did you have the grade specific course and just use the applicable units?

 

19 hours ago, kbutton said:

I LOVE Math Mammoth. We used the topical vs. a grade because we were switching earlier than 6th from a different program. (It's all the same topics as grade level, but it's presented in a different order).

Did you find the topical courses easy to implement? Was it easy to jump around and find what was needed?

 

As an update, I'm still floundering! Such good advice in this thread, but I have yet to settle on something 100%. I get to the point of being settled and ready to purchase something, then second guess myself and start looking at the other options again. Gah! I even added in a new option...I ordered a copy of Lial pre-algebra off of Amazon to look through. I may just end up buying "ALL THE THINGS" (the 1st few units of CLE 700, the Key To books for fractions & percents at least, and some form of MM (grade level or topical units???) to get the conceptual component. Once I can look through it all, then maybe I can decide which options would be best! I feel like my oldest is my guinea pig at this unique transitional point and I want to set him up to be successful once he reaches HS. I think I would worry much less about the particulars of these next two grade years if I knew for certain that we were going to continue homeschooling at the HS level. As it is, my husband is promoting putting him back in a private school in 9th grade. I'm not sold on that idea, but knowing it's a possibility makes me stress over where he needs to be in his math courses by 9th grade so that he could slide into that tract.  However, I really have no idea what school this would be or what their particular math tract will be. We are overseas currently, but will most likely be in (an as of now unknown) part of the U.S. by his 9th grade year.

[kbutton]

5 hours ago, BoyMom2 said:

Did you find the topical courses easy to implement? Was it easy to jump around and find what was needed?

It's more grade levels than we needed, so we did have to weed some things out. The MM website has some guidance on what order/grade to do the topical units, and I used that as a starting point. Some of the units I printed just a few topics. Otherwise, we did the units topically, but we often dipped into more than one unit at a time. My son needed more experience at the procedural aspects of percents, fractions, decimals, etc. He understood the concepts, but he needed practice doing them in a variety of ways and being accurate (dyscalculia). His brain tends to just do things randomly, and reinvent the wheel each time. Going back over those areas to basically do math habit training was really good for him, so we spread those units out as we did most of the rest (he still has a couple of units to do even though I was hoping he'd finish this year). 

While we shored up the habit training for procedural calculations a couple of lessons per week, he tore through other units, especially The Four Operations with a Touch of Algebra, Data and Graphs, Expressions and Equations, etc. He really enjoyed those. He still needs to do Statistics and Probability; Ratios, Proportions, and Problem-Solving, half of Linear Equations, and a few geometry lessons.

If your child needs a more spiral approach, you might take the MM placement test for grade level and see what you need to do from there. If you can see the TOCs from various grades and the TOCs from the topical, you can probably assess how to put together what he needs most.

MM also sells review materials--I think they are extra problem sets that don't have instruction embedded in the units. That can help with kids who need spiral review or more review.

[BoyMom2]

kbutton: Thank you! That is helpful information regarding how you have used the MM topical units. I plan to spend more time today looking through all of the online samples for MM.