How much writing for an 8 yo?

[lulalu]

Wondering what is a reasonable amount each week for an 8 yo, end of 2nd grade, to be writing. 

He struggled with penmenship. We took all of Kindergarten working on fine motor, and hand strength. Then 1st we learned how to form letters, and started writing. 

Here is what we are doing:

Daily: Copywork of one sentence, Dictation Day by Day (so 2 sentences dictation), one page in penmenship. 

Once a week: Copying one sentence he dictated from history, second language copywork

Is this enough work for learning the skill of writing? Daily he narrates a fable to me, he narrates what he is reading. We have done a few writing projects where I scribe for him this year. And he writes his grandparents letters monthly. 

He has a few workbooks he also writes in, but I am thinking more the skill of learning to write. 

 

[Lori D.]

That looks good. Eventually, maybe next year in grade 3, you might want to start with some very gentle writing instruction program.

As poster above mentioned, you have 2 subjects here:
- Handwriting (penmanship/copywork)
- Writing (generating ideas of what to say and writing that as complete sentences -- eventually over the years that turns into complete paragraphs, and then essays)

Since both of those, as well as the workbooks for other subjects, all require the act of writing, if you have a student who struggled to learn how to write, and does not have much endurance for writing (literally, holding and using the pencil), if you want to sometimes do more actually Writing, you can keep the workload on using the pencil at a similar level by sometimes doing some of the workbooks orally, or you scribe for him, or have him do it on a whiteboard (somehow that is different than using a pencil on paper).

You might also have him do some fine motor skill activities (like using tweezers to pick up beads) to help strengthen his hand muscles to increase endurance.

Also check his pencil grip -- he may be holding too tight or have a wrong hand position, either of which will make writing very tiring.

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

[lulalu]

20 hours ago, square_25 said:

Do you mean the physical skill, the ability to spell and use grammar, or the skill of putting together ideas on paper? I think those are all fairly different strands of writing. 

The skill of writing, putting thoughts to use on paper. 

[lulalu]

18 hours ago, Lori D. said:

That looks good. Eventually, maybe next year in grade 3, you might want to start with some very gentle writing instruction program.

As poster above mentioned, you have 2 subjects here:
- Handwriting (penmanship/copywork)
- Writing (generating ideas of what to say and writing that as complete sentences -- eventually over the years that turns into complete paragraphs, and then essays)

Since both of those, as well as the workbooks for other subjects, all require the act of writing, if you have a student who struggled to learn how to write, and does not have much endurance for writing (literally, holding and using the pencil), if you want to sometimes do more actually Writing, you can keep the workload on using the pencil at a similar level by sometimes doing some of the workbooks orally, or you scribe for him, or have him do it on a whiteboard (somehow that is different than using a pencil on paper).

You might also have him do some fine motor skill activities (like using tweezers to pick up beads) to help strengthen his hand muscles to increase endurance.

Also check his pencil grip -- he may be holding too tight or have a wrong hand position, either of which will make writing very tiring.

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

I have the Writing With Ease guide book, that is where much of our copywork is guided from. I figure that I am touching on all bases narration, copywork, and dictation. And doing it more often than WWE says to. 

I tried some Bravewriter projects. It just didn't seem to go over big here. Not enough guidance. 

I am curious why you put copywork in the spelling category? In my mind it falls under understanding well written sentence structures. And begins the teaching of what makes a sentence, then moving on to make a paragraph. I am planning to add longer copywork next year ending in copying paragraphs is my goal right now. I think copywork helps to stamp correct spelling in the mind. And I realize programs like Spelling You See use it as a main method, but they point out spelling patterns. Do you point out and talk about spelling patterns during copywork? Right now I point out grammar points. Today's sentences (2) were from the Bible and quoted Jesus as he was on the cross. So I again just pointed out quotation marks, and asked ds to tell me what Jesus said. Making sure ds recognized that what is between the marks is the talking. There were words I know he can't spell yet on his own in those two sentences. Is this where I should be talking about that? 

I knwo SWB has dictation sentences for the purpose of grammar learning in connection to writing. And I haven't done those types of dictation. We have been using Dictation Day by Day which has really helped ds in his spelling. But I do see it is helping him know where a comma should go, or a proper noun and so forth. Do we need to also do dictations like WWE has? Is there a benefit to doing both? 

I just over think sometimes. He can narrate to me so wonderfully. And orally tell a story that really shows his great verbal skills. But I just keep wondering if copywork, dictation, and narration are enough for early elementary years. He enjoys writing letters. We have a small Batman mailbox that he will leave notes to me in about once a week too. Sometimes those are stories. 

I taught before becoming a mother, and I just remember how much writing there was. Although, none of it was amazing or worth much. Forming ideas was so hard for most kids even in 4th-6th grades. So I have tried to focus more on ideas than production. But doubt always creeps in. 

[lulalu]

Sorry that was long 😁

[Clemsondana]

I never enjoyed writing but I was OK at the physical aspect of it and good at writing nonfiction things.  We did a lot of it, and I remember lots of kids struggling but didn't really understand why.  I was shocked when my super-advanced older kid struggled with writing of all kinds.  After some frustration, we cut way back.  We continued with daily handwriting in Handwriting without Tears and he did his own writing for subjects like math and spelling, but we didn't do much with writing as a subject for a while.  We did Winning with Writing and a co-op writing class - the assignments were simple and short...maybe they helped, maybe they didn't.  In 5th grade we tried the Michael Clay Thompson language arts program, and it made a huge difference for this particular kid.  Even with that, at that age, we did some of the assignments orally becausee, for this kid, it was more important to help him figure out how to organize ideas into a coherent structure than it was to actually produce work.  For whatever reason, exercises in outlining hadn't helped, but the simple explanations about the purpose of a paragraph (to explain one idea) and then an essay (to have each paragraph supporting the thesis explained in the first paragraph) made sense to this kiddo.  In 6th grade we started trying a variety of exercises - long assignments that took days, 'let's see what you can do in 45 minutes' assignments that forced him to put words on the page quickly...now as an 8th grader he can write papers that are several pages long without an inordinate amount of stalling.  🙂  

[Lori D.]

On 4/10/2020 at 3:32 AM, lulalu said:

... I am curious why you put copywork in the spelling category? In my mind it falls under understanding well written sentence structures. And begins the teaching of what makes a sentence, then moving on to make a paragraph. I am planning to add longer copywork next year ending in copying paragraphs is my goal right now. I think copywork helps to stamp correct spelling in the mind... Do you point out and talk about spelling patterns during copywork? Right now I point out grammar points...

Just as perspective: DSs were in the early elementary grades in 2000-2003, when there wasn't so much to choose from, so I was pulling together our own LA from many resources. 

re: Copywork
Actually, I put copywork into the Handwriting category, NOT in the Spelling category (see my above post) 😉 . Just me, but I categorize copywork as handwriting because for us, copywork was practicing forming  letters and words for handwriting / penmanship practice, as we didn't use a handwriting program (other than early on just to learn letter formation for manuscript and then for cursive). 

re: Dictation
I used dictation as a tool to aid with Spelling and Grammar. For spelling, it was with DS#2 with mild LDs in Spelling, Writing, and Math. We started doing dictation for Spelling about 6th grade, when he *finally* started to click a bit with Spelling -- and because he was older, doing "more handwriting" was not quite so painful for him as it had been in the early elementary grades. Spelling dictation was about 5 short sentences, each with 3 spelling words, to help him practice simultaneous writing/spelling.

For dictation in support of Grammar, starting about grade 3, about 2-3x/week, rather than doing it as an actually dictated dictation, I wrote out a short passage (our "dictation" passage) from their reading, and we went over it -- more along the lines of older Sonlight LA and Ruth Beechick style. We were looking at parts of speech, punctuation, capitalization, subject/verb agreement, verb tense and usage, pronoun/antecedent, homophones/homonyms, contractions, etc. This sounds similar to what described with your copywork. I never did "true" or "full" dictation of actually having DSs write the passage AND then discuss, because they were SO handwriting phobic, that I saved the actual handwriting for when it was needed. The "pick your battles" philosophy, lol -- because a child isn't learning Grammar or Spelling if they are fighting you about the handwriting. 😉 

re: Spelling & Writing
Because DS#2 had huge problems with Spelling (mild LDs), that pretty much had to be a remedial subject, which was practiced on its own in a variety of ways at a separate time. Writing out spelling words was NOT a help at all for learning spelling patterns -- handwriting was already an issue for him, so I removed it from the mix to make learning Spelling at least a little easier without handwriting also being thrown at him. 

Also, I did NOT correct spelling while in the midst of his writing, because that totally would have shut him down. However, I always encouraged him to ask how to spell any word while in the midst of Writing, so as not to shut down his thinking while Writing -- because that was his other huge LA struggle. Also, we could, at a much later time, come back to a piece of writing for revision and editing (including fixing spelling). Older DS never needed dictation for Spelling, and was a fairly decent speller, so we didn't have to do any extra work for him with Spelling. For both DSs, discussing spelling patterns had to come specifically during Spelling, otherwise it completely derailed their thinking if we tried to add aspects of Spelling while in the midst of discussions about Writing.

Side note: MOST children can not simultaneously juggle the 3 different aspects of Writing -- thinking of what to write; the act of writing; and correcting spelling while writing  -- until at least 3rd grade, and often not until 5th/6th grade. (And some people never are able to do that 3-way simultaneous juggle.) That is because all 3 activities are processed in different parts of the brain, which mature at different times. That is why in those early elementary grades you often don't see a "carry-over" from words that are spelled perfectly on Spelling tests, but are misspelled in the Writing. That's also a great time to introduce the concept that Writing is a multi-stage process (brainstorm; organize; rough draft; revise; proof-edit) -- and that it's perfectly fine -- in fact, encouraged -- to first pour out your ideas on paper, and then know that you WILL be going back and revising and fixing things. And that this multi-step process of writing is true for EVERYONE -- grown-ups, too. 😉 

re: Writing
For actual Writing instruction (Composition) and assignment ideas, I used a variety of resources. But honestly, we didn't really start anything more "formal" for writing until along about grade 4. Because I had a writing hater (DS#1) and a writing struggler (DS#2), and both were pencil-phobic, lol, I tended to go for small "bites" of writing, scattered throughout the day, between subjects not requiring writing.  

Not sure it will help at all, since now there are so many Writing programs that pull in all the aspects for you, but, here's a quick overview of the major things we did for Writing at the different grade levels:

grades 1-2 - "pre-writing" activities:
- ideas from Peggy Kaye's Games for Writing (2 esp. good ones: fun lists; and share writing a story: on your turn, roll a die and that's how many words you get to add to the story)
- occasionally used narration as their copywork (take a whole week to copy their narration paragraph, 1 sentence/day)
- free writing, from a prompt = 1-3 sentences
- thank you notes for birthday and Christmas presents (this would be the copywork for this time frame; it took 2-3 days per note, so as to not burn out doing more than 1-2 sentences per day)

grades 3-5 - slowly move into actual Writing:
- free writing, from a prompt = 3-5 sentences
- thank you notes for birthday and Christmas presents (1 short thank you note a day at this stage -- we also practiced formatting of addressing envelopes)
- in grade 4-5, we did a sentence a day out of Ready Set Revise
- occasional ideas out of Majorie Frank's Primary (1-3) and Intermediate (gr. 4-6) Complete Writing Lesson books (while we didn't end up using it, Majorie Frank also has a lot of incredible creative ideas in: If You're Trying to Teach Writing to Your Kids, You've Got to Have This Book)
- "book reports" -- build it up over a week; I made a form, and the first 2 days were filling in things like title, author, main characters, etc.; then the last 3 days of the week were writing a paragraph review of the book, 2-3 sentences per day
- IEW-style key-word-outline-to-finished-paragraph over the course of a week (day 1 = brainstorm/organize; days 2-3 = turn outline into complete sentences; day 4 = revise/proof-edit and then each day do one step of the process -- in grades 4-5, we were doing the Beautiful Feet Geography guide & map pack to go with the 4 Holling C. Holling books, and there were some great ideas in there for doing further research and then writing a paragraph, using the IEW-style method; you could also go with topics of high personal interest to your student(s) -- the key is take a week to build your paragraph, as small "bites"

 grades 5-7 - beginning Writing
- 3x/week = practice proof-editing (Take Five Minutes: A History Fact a Day for Editing; Editor-in-Chief, etc.)
- 2-3x/week = paragraph about a country to add to our own "atlas" along with marking outline maps, and using resources to jot down the same key facts for each nation (capitol; population; major religion(s); major resource(s)
- take several weeks to research/write an occasional multi-paragraph factual writing about a subject to then give as an "oral report" to the family
- writing complete sentence answers explaining results of experiment/observation for the science lab questions with TOPS task cards
- programs: Wordsmith Apprentice (gr. 4-6), and, Wordsmith (gr. 6-8)

 

On 4/10/2020 at 3:32 AM, lulalu said:

...I just over think sometimes. He can narrate to me so wonderfully. And orally tell a story that really shows his great verbal skills. But I just keep wondering if copywork, dictation, and narration are enough for early elementary years. He enjoys writing letters. We have a small Batman mailbox that he will leave notes to me in about once a week too. Sometimes those are stories...

Just me, but I think you sound like you're in a great place for 2nd grade. Especially since he is still enjoying writing (yea! no overkill!). And he is actually initiating some writing with the Batman mailbox idea, which sounds fantastic, BTW! 😄 Run with what he's enjoying! Maybe he'd like to create his own comic strip. Maybe write a story together, alternating sentences, or days. Just don't turn Writing into drudgery through forcing him to do too much, or to do types of Writing that he's not ready for, or has not yet developed the brain maturity to be able to do yet... 😫
 

On 4/10/2020 at 3:32 AM, lulalu said:

...I taught before becoming a mother, and I just remember how much writing there was. Although, none of it was amazing or worth much. Forming ideas was so hard for most kids even in 4th-6th grades. So I have tried to focus more on ideas than production. But doubt always creeps in. 

For perspective: I'm teaching homeschool high school Lit. & Writing classes, and forming ideas and building a complete paragraph of supported argument is so hard for a lot of these older students. Writing is based on thinking. And thinking skills are based in the logic and abstract areas of the brain, which typically don't start developing until age 11-13 -- and for some students it's even later. So late middle school/early high school is when you have the brain maturity for a student to be able to start thinking in the ways needed for "building arguments" and writing essays.

Certainly grades 4-6 are a great time to work on basic writing skills such as complete sentences (vs. run-ons and fragments), basic paragraph structure (topic sentence, detail sentences, concluding sentence) and what does/doesn't "fit" into a paragraph. Also that's a great time to work on proof-editing and basic revising. It's also a great time to introduce and practice writing of the 4 different types (descriptive, narrative, expository, persuasive). And to try out the occasional oral report/public speaking assignment.

Grades 1-3 -- relax and explore. Keep writing light and fun. Explore creative writing if the child enjoys it. Informally discuss punctuation and basic grammar usage. Practice narration, if desired. Again, this is just me with 2 DSs who tired quickly with handwriting and either hated it or struggled with it. What worked for us: I didn't worry about doing anything "formal" with writing before 4th grade. 😉 

BEST of luck in your writing adventures with DS! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Lori D.

[lulalu]

Thank you that was very helpful. 

[Lori D.]

Just wanted to add -- you and DS will find the "rhythm" and amount of writing that works for YOUR family. 😄 (Although, it sounds like you already have, to me.)

My overly long post (lol) was just outlining what worked over the years for us, with my unique students . Clemson Dana (above) provided another great view of the early years of the "learning to write journey" looked like for them. You and DS will have your own unique path and journey.

Wishing you all the BEST! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Lori D.

[lulalu]

Anyone else want to share what writing looks like for your 8 year olds? I do like to see what others are doing on a weekly basis. Helps me think through my own thoughts. 

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

On 4/14/2020 at 9:41 AM, lulalu said:

Anyone else want to share what writing looks like for your 8 year olds? I do like to see what others are doing on a weekly basis. Helps me think through my own thoughts. 

My DS is 7 but is an early & enthusiastic writer kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum to Lori D’s kiddos. Nonetheless, the pattern of development seems very similar. Currently over the course of a week he: 

Completes two HWOT cursive lessons; a 2pg spread per lesson. 

Analyzes 2 sentences for grammar. I usually write these out, so he just labels parts of speech & such. 

Completes one AAS lesson across two days. 5 dictated sentences one day, 2-3 self-created sentences using spelling words the other day. 

Writes one short poem or story (2-4 sentences) & one simile using a newly-learned Latin stem. 

Works in a critical thinking workbook that sometimes includes writing single-sentence answers from a prompt.

Narrates about a history or science topic we covered that week. We do these mostly orally, but I’m going to try to start having him write it out (with help outlining) once a month. We’ll begin formally working on paragraphs in the autumn. 
————————————————————————

ETA: Last semester was totally different, as he was working on creative writing projects of his own choosing. He wrote a play script, then a short story for NaNoWriMo. For big projects like those he dictates while I scribe. I then write his story on the dry-erase board a few sentences at a time, & he copies his own story, a bit at a time, until the whole thing is on paper in his own hand.

Those & spelling were the only writing we had time (or endurance!) for last semester!

Edited May 9, 2020 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

 I think what you are doing right now sounds great!

DS spent about a year after learning letter formation on copy work alone - first single words, the one sentence at a time, then a couple, etc. along with narrating summaries to me. We didn’t begin dictation or writing anything totally independently (thought-to-page) until the following year. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[Sarah0000]

My 8yo boy just finished W&R Fable, which he loved, and we plan to continue next year. He also occasionally rotates through Spelling Workout (I think C) and EM Daily 6 Trait Writing 2, each of which sometimes has writing a sentence or paragraph. He translates or writes sentences in foreign language.

We aren't a very structured homeschool. There are weeks he'll write pages and weeks he writes only a few sentences, just depends on where interests are at the moment. 

What are his interests? Sometimes my 8yo likes to writes stories, journal entries, and clues in the diaries in Minecraft. Sometimes he likes to make stop motion movies, and if he's planning out story structure I consider it composition practice. This week we've been story mapping Pixar movies, then watching them. So far this has just been filling in a map but I think I can move this into paragraph form and he'll still like it.

[Bobos_Mom]

We did free writing and comic books and Write about Me type of activities through the first part of 4th grade. Nothing formal considered it with copywork as writing. We are dealing with dysgraphia diagnosis so it was important to build confidence.  We started EPS Writing Skills A to get to grade level and pair it with their Just Write book series starting on book 2. It’s going great since we have been in it for 3 months now and confidence just keeps building. I have a reluctant writer and having time to explore and do her own writing projects and then easing into a formal program is working out great. We also do cursive and keyboarding as part of penmanship as this helps with her spacing, random capitalization.  

[vonbon]

I can't read through all of the responses right now and it looks like you got some good feedback, OP...I will try to come back "after school" 😊 today to read through details.

For now, I thought I'd add that, when I'm planning each week for DD8, I mentally check these 4 boxes for Writing (meaning, this is how I break up "Writing" in my head):

- Penmanship (@ various ages would include: printing, cursive, typing, copywork of sentences or poems, etc.).  Copywork completed with X skill (printing, cursive, typing).  

- Grammar 

- Spelling

- Composition (including journal prompts, sentences, sentence forms, paragraphs, short essays, editing, etc.)

Sometimes, we combine some of these areas.  Sometimes (right now), we are using 3-4 different curricula to address these areas.  That's sounds onerous when I type it out, but we've landed upon a few things that really work well and efficiently for us.  Some take as few as 5-10 minutes per day, so it's not as crazy as it sounds.  

We've tried Dictation and it's gone well, but I've never been consistent in implementing it.  I see it's value, so that's a goal for me to work towards.  I've always rolled Narration into our read-aloud time / SOTW / etc., so I guess I've seen that as falling under Reading in our homeschool.  So valuable! 

A very seasoned homeschooler and public school teacher I knew recommended approximately 1 sentence per day per grade level as kind of a rule-of-thumb / minimum in the lower grades.  While it's a bit minimal compared to what I think my students are capable of, it was a helpful rule-of-thumb for me when one DD was struggling with writing. 

So, for example, 2nd grade would = 2 quality sentences per day.  Again, after DD11 got over the mental hump (I think it was a general, developmental pushback stage / control / attitude issue at 7-8), she was capable of much more than that rule-of-thumb amount.  But it helped me on the days / weeks when I was really stressing about writing.  Obviously, 10th grade does not equal 10 sentences, 😄, so, at some point, this rule-of-thumb breaks down.  But I thought it was really helpful in the first few years as just a tiny goal to work towards when we were at odds with each other and my student was having a rough day.  This particular student now writes 2-page opinion pieces independently, with supporting evidence, LOL, poetry, funny journal prompt responses, so it's working out.  😉 I think I was the one who really needed that rule. 

[vonbon]

Just popping back in with a method I wanted to share that's working really for the second student I'm trying this with (DD8):

A Gentle Writing Process for a Reluctant Writer

Day(s) 1+* - Brainstorm a topic the student is really interested in or can write easily about.  If they really don't have any ideas, write a simple prompt that you think will generate interest.  Don't make it something that requires them to "analyze their feelings" or something that is too trite, too sappy or too "pat".  Really hone in on what they have something to say about, even if that's along the lines of "Why Second Graders Shouldn't Be Required to Write!"  (though, hopefully, in time, they'll move off of this type of argumentative piece...) 

Watch high-quality videos on the subject...find great titles to read together...interview someone...  Be flexible and come to some agreement on what they think they could / would like to write about, unless you have some sort of external requirement that dictates specifics (school, curriculum, etc.).  This might take longer than 1 day (information gathering, priming the pump), and might be connected to other studies or adventures in life (new pet, how to make a certain craft or recipe, a trip to the zoo, etc.).

Day 2* - Show student how to make a brainstorm "web" or how to organize ideas under 2-3 topics; add details.  No "wrong" answers; just let ideas flow conversationally.  Scribe and organize for them.  I try to let this be more creative / flowy vs. rigid organization.  Spelling / grammar don't count on this organizer.  These are just personal notes for later; to be recycled someday. 

Day 3* - Have student pick one of the 2-3 ideas from the brainstorm web to write about.  Try for 1 sentence, 3 sentences...up to 1 paragraph for the day--whatever they can feel good about without getting too discouraged.  If the student has issues with the mechanics of getting it out on paper, try "Share-the-Pen" (parent writes some or most; student fills in blanks or writes what they can...or scribe it for them, depending on age / ability).  Set a timer if you think it will get too laborious.  Put the piece away.  Don't edit.  Don't correct.  Don't give any feedback on how it's written.  Just let the student write in their own way.  Encourage any growth or attempt.  Don't even read it if they're shy / self-conscious.  Just let them put it away; allow it to be private for now.  Don't make them show it to you if they are protective of it.  

Day 4* - Same as Day 3 but different topic.  No correcting; no editing. No "helpful feedback from Mom" unless the student specifically requests help.     

Day 5* - Same as Days 3/4 but last topic.  No correcting; no editing.  Don't talk about grammar.  Don't fuss over capitalization or punctuation at this point.

Day 6* - Encourage student to add a brief Conclusion (1-2 sentences summing up the experience, the opinion, what the hope / anticipate will happen in the future - whatever they're writing about).

Day 7* - Work on an Intro if that hasn't happened yet.  Add a title on top.  

Put the piece away.  Can you "afford" a week of it just sitting in a drawer?  Two weeks?  

1-2 weeks go by...This passage of time allows the Editing portion, which is quite different from the Creative portion of the process, to become less personal.  It feels really bad for a writer to pour their attempts into a piece, only to have it immediately torn apart by editing, even if you try to keep the process impersonal.  

2 weeks later...Parent: "Today we are going to put our Editor's caps on.  Remember the piece you wrote on X?  Today we're going to use this checklist and go through to see if there are parts we can improve."  Let them use a cool pen or their favorite color, a highlighter...  Copious praise: "I love how you X, Y, Z here.  That was really interesting / creative / unique!" "I'm proud of you for sticking with this assignment, even if you wouldn't have chosen it for yourself...", etc.  Proceed with using a checklist for editing (Punctuation, Capitalization, etc.); these can be printed off the internet.  The checklist also makes the process less personal than if it's all coming from Parent.  

Anyway, this has solidly been working for us for ~5 years.  When we began, my expectations were way higher than they should have been.  Writing came easily for me and I'd never taught it to anyone else, so I didn't have a frame of reference for what could be expected each year / developmental stage.  

I hope this helps someone who's worrying over writing or working with a sensitive or reluctant writing student.  I'm sure someone out there has taken much more time and effort to write this type of method into a great curriculum.  It's simple.  It works.  My older student now writes independently (it was a multi-year process) and is becoming a great writer with a confident writing voice...a big change from the tears of 1st and 2nd grades! 

I sense some internal pushback from my next writer (DD8); little bit of chafing against writing assignments...but a paragraph is very doable for her at this point, so a paragraph a day isn't too much.  One paragraph a day is doable.  When we first started, I scribed for her...then asked her to fill in blanks from her own dictated sentences...then shared-the-pen...then asked for a sentence a day...two sentences...and so on, as she was able.    

DD8 just worked on a piece about a new project (chicks) for a couple of weeks.  She put a lot of effort into it.  I'm not going to fuss over the "voice" of it too much or point out every spelling mistake.  We'll fix a few, do some editing, and move on.  She really likes to see her work in print, so I'm going to type it out into a small format that can be physically cut-and-pasted into a little colorful book (ordered a set off of RR this year).  Maybe she'll illustrate it.  In a few years, it will be a good memory of the season in which she raised her first set of chicks!

* Ooh - forgot to add: I don't assign these "Days" one-after-the-other.  It might take us 2 weeks to get through all of these "Days".  We are doing other language arts assignments 4-5 days / week, some which include writing or sentences (our spelling curriculum, for example).  I have found that, if I do five of these "Days" in five days, it is quite laborious for a 2nd grader and turns into burnout.  I might do 2-3 of these "Days" each week.  Hope that makes sense.  

[MerryAtHope]

 

On 4/9/2020 at 8:01 AM, lulalu said:

Wondering what is a reasonable amount each week for an 8 yo, end of 2nd grade, to be writing. 

He struggled with penmenship. We took all of Kindergarten working on fine motor, and hand strength. Then 1st we learned how to form letters, and started writing. 

Here is what we are doing:

Daily: Copywork of one sentence, Dictation Day by Day (so 2 sentences dictation), one page in penmenship. 

Once a week: Copying one sentence he dictated from history, second language copywork

Is this enough work for learning the skill of writing? Daily he narrates a fable to me, he narrates what he is reading. We have done a few writing projects where I scribe for him this year. And he writes his grandparents letters monthly. 

He has a few workbooks he also writes in, but I am thinking more the skill of learning to write. 

 

 

I think it looks just fine, but I also think a better question is, what is reasonable for your son? I had struggling writers, so each year I evaluated where we were and how I could gently nudge them up to the next steps of writing at a pace that worked for them. Sometimes you have to put "grade level" aside for a time as you scaffold them, and that's okay. 

We used copywork extensively for teaching grammar and sentence structure (and I also had them copy work I scribed for them as part of a "partnership writing" phase)--so I agree that copywork can be used for more than handwriting practice with some focused attention. Here are some posts on my blog that you might find helpful as you evaluate what he's been doing and what might be a good next step for him.

• Reluctant Writers - Part 1
• 6 Writing Mistakes - Reluctant Writers Part 2
• Copywork and Dictation: Teaching Mechanics
• Copywork and Dictation: Teaching Literary Elements

HTH some!