AOPS online Python class... anyone tried it?

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Has anyone's kid done the AOPS Python class?  I'm wondering how the AOPS text-based classes lend themselves to teaching programming.  My son is really interested, but I don't want to pull the trigger given the price unless people tend to think the text-based works well.  For info, he's 2 chapters away from finishing AOPS Algebra after finishing AOPS Pre-A, and has adapted well to learning from the books talking directly to the student.  I'm definitely in a  coaching role for math at this point.  He's 13/7th grade.  

Any reviews?  

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

 

I haven't tried it and I haven't taught it (I don't know Python, only C++ and Java), but a lot of the kids in my AoPS classes have and I got the impression they enjoyed it. 

I'd be curious what people with more direct experience think of the classes!

 

Thanks, yes, I've come to expect excellence from AOPS products, so I assume it'll be good, but I'm a bit thrown off my the format, especially because he would not be participating live but rather reading the transcripts afterward.  

[zoo_keeper]

My eldest did it two summers ago. Good / standard csci assignments but she hated the format (didn't keep her attention or really encourage interaction). It also moved very quickly, to the point that I wondered how students who didn't have parents who coded could keep up.  I still haven't found an online python class that I've really liked but I keep looking!

[daijobu]

I've taken the class and so did my daughters, probably in middle school.  It's fast-paced and challenging.  My suggestion is to not take the class cold, but have some experience with basic computer programming principles in python or any other language.  (Python is easiest for beginners anyway.)  

There is an online textbook that you can use as a reference.  You can probably work through the book on your own first to get a head start. 

Or you can do what we did and use Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner by Michael Dawson.  It's not written for children, but the programs are all games it's kid friendly.  Most younger students will need an adult to guide them through the book, but more mature students may be fine on their own.  You only need to study the first half of the book, through OOP.  

After my kids had studied python on their own at a slower pace, they took the AoPS classes and it was still pretty challenging for them.  And for me, but well worth it.  

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

4 hours ago, daijobu said:

I've taken the class and so did my daughters, probably in middle school.  It's fast-paced and challenging.  My suggestion is to not take the class cold, but have some experience with basic computer programming principles in python or any other language.  (Python is easiest for beginners anyway.)  

There is an online textbook that you can use as a reference.  You can probably work through the book on your own first to get a head start. 

Or you can do what we did and use Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner by Michael Dawson.  It's not written for children, but the programs are all games it's kid friendly.  Most younger students will need an adult to guide them through the book, but more mature students may be fine on their own.  You only need to study the first half of the book, through OOP.  

After my kids had studied python on their own at a slower pace, they took the AoPS classes and it was still pretty challenging for them.  And for me, but well worth it.  

 

 

Can you tell me what types of programs the kids write during the AOPS class?  Games or... ?  My son has done a lot of scratch programming and done a number of python youtube tutorials, indulging a tetris game, but he doesn't understand every line of code, some of it is copy-pasted.  

[daijobu]

I just so happens that I could find my old programs from the class, though I believe this is the intermediate class projects, not the intro.  I'm sure if you contacted them, you could ask about the intro projects.  

This isn't just a copy-paste assignment.  Your student will not be able to complete the homework unless they understand every line of code.  

 

[zoo_keeper]

Agreed. As a programmer myself and former leader of a coding club, my kids started Scratch probably at age 4. Then they moved on to Python through lots of different gamified platforms for kids. So I thought my eldest was prepared. But goodness gracious, we still spent at least one evening a week, working for several hours into the night, on her weekly assignments. They started out easy but really ramped up by the end.  There is an active online community that the students can access for support, and my daughters still use it despite us moving to different providers for AOPS-based classes.

[daijobu]

I can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier:  Stanford will be offering their famous CS 106 A class for free.  My DH and DD are both signed up to be section leaders.  I took the class when I was an undergrad.    (Mehran was the best man at our wedding.)   

[SereneHome]

On 4/9/2020 at 2:39 AM, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

Has anyone's kid done the AOPS Python class?  I'm wondering how the AOPS text-based classes lend themselves to teaching programming.  My son is really interested, but I don't want to pull the trigger given the price unless people tend to think the text-based works well.  For info, he's 2 chapters away from finishing AOPS Algebra after finishing AOPS Pre-A, and has adapted well to learning from the books talking directly to the student.  I'm definitely in a  coaching role for math at this point.  He's 13/7th grade.  

Any reviews?  

 

 I am sorry I am not answering your question, but actually have a question for you.

We are considerin AOPS Pre-A right now and  I was a bit thrown back by text-based class.  I just can not envision what it is exactly. If it's just a text on the screen, how is it different than reading a book?

My husband actually taught college level math, and I am wondering if taking this class would be worth it for my kid or should my husband just take him through the book.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

1 hour ago, SereneHome said:

 I am sorry I am not answering your question, but actually have a question for you.

We are considerin AOPS Pre-A right now and  I was a bit thrown back by text-based class.  I just can not envision what it is exactly. If it's just a text on the screen, how is it different than reading a book?

My husband actually taught college level math, and I am wondering if taking this class would be worth it for my kid or should my husband just take him through the book.

 

Happy to help, though I can't exactly answer your question, either!  😆

We simply bought the text and solutions for Pre Algebra, and now for algebra.  I have a stem degree and am comfortable with higher level math.  The book is absolutely excellent.  I was not sure how it would go over, as it is VERY intimidating on first look.  The book format is about 8.5x11 in or so, like a sheet of paper, and every page is an absolute wall of text.  I had my son read the introduction note to students, and then we took a deep breath and plunged in.  There were a few frustrating lessons and a tiny bit of tears, but by the end of PA, he was self-teaching form the text and only asking me for help occasionally.  For the algebra book, he is now asking for help for maybe 20% of questions.  

He does the problems one day- works through them, then reads the solutions.  He then does the exercises the following day, working through them, then we check his answers together with the solutions manual.  Reviews typically take 2-3 days, as many of them are quite long.  We have been skipping the challenge problems as he isn't self-motivated to do them and they could easily double the time we spend on each chapter.  

We went into AOPS Pre-A after finishing Singapore Math 5 and then me doing a few explanations/reviews on negative numbers and exponents.  

[SereneHome]

2 hours ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

 

Happy to help, though I can't exactly answer your question, either!  😆

We simply bought the text and solutions for Pre Algebra, and now for algebra.  I have a stem degree and am comfortable with higher level math.  The book is absolutely excellent.  I was not sure how it would go over, as it is VERY intimidating on first look.  The book format is about 8.5x11 in or so, like a sheet of paper, and every page is an absolute wall of text.  I had my son read the introduction note to students, and then we took a deep breath and plunged in.  There were a few frustrating lessons and a tiny bit of tears, but by the end of PA, he was self-teaching form the text and only asking me for help occasionally.  For the algebra book, he is now asking for help for maybe 20% of questions.  

He does the problems one day- works through them, then reads the solutions.  He then does the exercises the following day, working through them, then we check his answers together with the solutions manual.  Reviews typically take 2-3 days, as many of them are quite long.  We have been skipping the challenge problems as he isn't self-motivated to do them and they could easily double the time we spend on each chapter.  

We went into AOPS Pre-A after finishing Singapore Math 5 and then me doing a few explanations/reviews on negative numbers and exponents.  

Oh, I made a huge mistake when I threw my kid into PA. Up until then when we did Singapore, I would discuss the topic and have him do problems.  Lord knows why I thought he could just start reading on his own and do it himself and only ask me when he needed help. That did NOT work, there were tears and he became highly discouraged. This was pretty stupid on my part bc both, my husband and I can very much handle teaching math.

So I was thinking of "making it up" to him and have him do on-line class - I was picturing it like my graduate school - professor in front of the class, you see and hear everything from home. Now I am just thinking of doing exactly what you describe and  save $$ for something else!

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

30 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Oh, I made a huge mistake when I threw my kid into PA. Up until then when we did Singapore, I would discuss the topic and have him do problems.  Lord knows why I thought he could just start reading on his own and do it himself and only ask me when he needed help. That did NOT work, there were tears and he became highly discouraged. This was pretty stupid on my part bc both, my husband and I can very much handle teaching math.

So I was thinking of "making it up" to him and have him do on-line class - I was picturing it like my graduate school - professor in front of the class, you see and hear everything from home. Now I am just thinking of doing exactly what you describe and  save $$ for something else!

 

You might try getting a subscription to Great Courses Online, I think it's $10 a month right now... and test out their algebra course.  I think it is similar to what you are describing.  But honestly... save the money.  I call my oldest my "experimental child" because he has the misfortune of testing all of my newfangled parenting and schooling ideas.  I do regularly offer him frank and sincere apologies for bad decisions on my part.  I think it's important to apologize.  LOL  Luckily he's a pretty good sport.  🤣  And because he's homeschooled and hasn't had the innocence kicked out of him, a few stickers on his math pages for good effort still go a long way.  

[mumto2]

There are lots of free online opportunity for programming.  Off the top of my head Coursera, Saylor, and Futurelearn for places to start looking. Take a look at those and do some googling......Ds is pretty awesome at programming and learned a lot of it in his early teens for free through online free classes.  He now has degrees in CS and Cyber.  Btw Coursera was where he did the python way back when. 

[daijobu]

6 hours ago, SereneHome said:

 I am sorry I am not answering your question, but actually have a question for you.

We are considerin AOPS Pre-A right now and  I was a bit thrown back by text-based class.  I just can not envision what it is exactly. If it's just a text on the screen, how is it different than reading a book?

My husband actually taught college level math, and I am wondering if taking this class would be worth it for my kid or should my husband just take him through the book.

 

A good way to see if you like the class format is to attend one of their Math Jams, which now seem to be scheduled every Wednesday and Friday.  They follow the same format with the problem displayed at the top of the screen, the instructor solving line by line, while asking questions of the students and posting appropriate student responses into the text chat.  (The archived math jams are also available.)

PROS: 

• I am easily distracted by sights and sounds, so I really appreciate being able to attend the lecture in absolute silence so  I could focus on the problems.
• You can't see who is taking the class with you.  There is a wide range of ages in each class, from the very very young to oldsters like me.  It's disheartening to be outshined by some cute little kid, so I appreciated being shielded from that.
• You can ask questions in class discretely.  If you are lost you can ask a question in the text chat, and it will be answered via a "whisper", that is, a message that goes directly to you unseen by the rest of the class.  

CONS:

• The quality of the discussion boards vary.  Some teachers are on the ball and respond to questions quickly.  Some teachers...not so much.  
• The classes are fast-paced.  I was worried if I let my kids take the class on their own, they wouldn't be able to manage their time and complete their homework and really get the material.  My big reason for homeschooling was to work at my students' own pace, and I didn't want them rushing through what I considered their most foundational classes.
• I think there is a real skill to be learned in studying from a book and I wanted to model that for them in preparation for higher level learning in all subjects.
• I wanted to model proper mathematical documentation and so many other reasons I just didn't want to outsource math.

Ultimately, we did the "core" math classes together at home using the textbooks.  My students did the fun contest prep classes on line, as they have fewer homework problems and are just more about review and prep than learning new material per se.  

I never had my kids studying from the textbooks independently.  Even my older daughter who studied AoPS calculus wanted me by her side, though I think that's because she's a more social learner.  I was probably just slowing her down at that point.  

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

1 hour ago, mumto2 said:

There are lots of free online opportunity for programming.  Off the top of my head Coursera, Saylor, and Futurelearn for places to start looking. Take a look at those and do some googling......Ds is pretty awesome at programming and learned a lot of it in his early teens for free through online free classes.  He now has degrees in CS and Cyber.  Btw Coursera was where he did the python way back when. 

 

Coursera is a great idea!

[SereneHome]

Sorry @Monica_in_Switzerland to derail your thread, but thank you soooooo much for suggestions and help, ladies

[daijobu]

1 hour ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

 

You might try getting a subscription to Great Courses Online, I think it's $10 a month right now... and test out their algebra course.  I think it is similar to what you are describing.  But honestly... save the money.  

 

Is this to say that you do not recommend the GC algebra class?  

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Just now, daijobu said:

 

Is this to say that you do not recommend the GC algebra class?  

 

Not at all, haven't personally tried it, but I'm sure it's good.  It was just in the context of not needing to spend money if willing and able to teach the class yourself.  

[mumto2]

29 minutes ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

 

Coursera is a great idea!

Take a look a Futurelearn too....this one looks good https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/object-oriented-principles

[SereneHome]

@daijobu - THANK YOU SOOO MUCH for telling me about Math Jams. We "watched' one today so now have a pretty good idea what classes are like. I would have never thought of looking at it if it wasn't for you.

And thank you @Monica_in_Switzerland for starting this topic at a perfect time! 🙂